JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[airomerix]

Dont know how you imagined I said anything about purchasing rafales... I specifically stated we should have expanded on manufactering the jf-17 program. So much time wasted where we could have shown a lot more similar to our nuclear and missile program. Jf-17 is definatly an achievement but one must learn from huge mistakes made.

Are you aware of the maintenace cost for 60 year old mirages? for Gods sake we are spending money on used mirages from Egypt. Our general have simply failed with the vision they have given. Our air marshal is also the ceo of PIA airlines. We are not short of talent, we are short of leaders with a vision. JF-17 project started with northrop gruman super 7 project in the 80's mind you...

From the saga of wanting to purchase 75 new f-16s, to new mirage 2000's, to new super cobras, to new turkish attack helis, new rooivalks, new j-10s etc we have seen it all int he last 3 decades and all we have to show is 110 jf-17s??? fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me fool me 3-4-5-6 times then...

Below average knowledge base and above average rhetoric. Mix them and then we get posts like these.

Are you aware of the maintenace cost for 60 year old mirages? for Gods sake we are spending money on used mirages from Egypt. Our general have simply failed with the vision they have given. Our air marshal is also the ceo of PIA airlines. We are not short of talent, we are short of leaders with a vision. JF-17 project started with northrop gruman super 7 project in the 80's mind you...

The maintenance costs you speak of are far lower than procuring, training, inducting and operationalizing any new platform apart from F-16s. You simply have no idea about the maths involved in the recent deal of the Egyptian mirages. They have been purchased on a throwaway price and will serve as dedicated strike platforms. Swift retort taught you nothing I suppose.

As for the leadership question, it is easier for you to speak about the failures sitting behind the keyboard. There have been acute leadership failures in PAF no doubt, but you have failed to point out even ONE. This speaks volumes about your own intellectual ability to identify pain points of the organisation in question.

Your contention about Mirages, PIA is just crap. I will not even educate you this because a. it is off topic b. I'm not willing to spoon feed you.

From the saga of wanting to purchase 75 new f-16s, to new mirage 2000's, to new super cobras, to new turkish attack helis, new rooivalks, new j-10s etc we have seen it all int he last 3 decades and all we have to show is 110 jf-17s??? fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me fool me 3-4-5-6 times then...

Are you for real? Have you been living under a stone? Do you have the slightest idea what are the literal and political costs associated with such procurements? Buying 75 F-16s or Mirage 2000's means throwing our 60% annual defense budget at the manufacturer. You need to take a closer look at your fan boyish wish list before painting your own absurd view point as another so called leadership failrue of PAF.

On the last note, these 110 JF-17 you have put down have caused sleepless nights to so many of Pakistan's current and potential adversaries. This country was close to being a failed state in 1999. Today it has the capability to manufacture its own 4th generation fighter in a month's time. Come out of your American dream and look around, how many developed countries can do that?

Hi,

It is not the 100's years thing---it is the ability to learn and adjust---. Pak military does not have the ability to learn & adjust----. It has shown that time and against---.

It also wants to show and strut---the peacock hidden inside of the Pak military needs to come out occasionally and wants to dance and prance and strut around---.

I actually thought you may be someone knowledgable.

What crap is this?

 

[araz]

Below average knowledge base and above average rhetoric. Mix them and then we get posts like these.



The maintenance costs you speak of are far lower than procuring, training, inducting and operationalizing any new platform apart from F-16s. You simply have no idea about the maths involved in the recent deal of the Egyptian mirages. They have been purchased on a throwaway price and will serve as dedicated strike platforms. Swift retort taught you nothing I suppose.

As for the leadership question, it is easier for you to speak about the failures sitting behind the keyboard. There have been acute leadership failures in PAF no doubt, but you have failed to point out even ONE. This speaks volumes about your own intellectual ability to identify pain points of the organisation in question.

Your contention about Mirages, PIA is just crap. I will not even educate you this because a. it is off topic b. I'm not willing to spoon feed you.



Are you for real? Have you been living under a stone? Do you have the slightest idea what are the literal and political costs associated with such procurements? Buying 75 F-16s or Mirage 2000's means throwing our 60% annual defense budget at the manufacturer. You need to take a closer look at your fan boyish wish list before painting your own absurd view point as another so called leadership failrue of PAF.

On the last note, these 110 JF-17 you have put down have caused sleepless nights to so many of Pakistan's current and potential adversaries. This country was close to being a failed state in 1999. Today it has the capability to manufacture its own 4th generation fighter in a month's time. Come out of your American dream and look around, how many developed countries can do that?



I actually thought you may be someone knowledgable.

What crap is this?

So are you saying the Egyptian M3/5 deal is done and the platforms have arrived? Cause there is no news in this regsrd on the board.
A

 

[GriffinsRule]

So are you saying the Egyptian M3/5 deal is done and the platforms have arrived? Cause there is no news in this regsrd on the board.
A

We wont see them in PAF until Egypt has taken delivery of all the aircraft meant to replace them.

 

[mingle]

We wont see them in PAF until Egypt has taken delivery of all the aircraft meant to replace them.

What that mean?? They replacing them which platform?? I mean are these not excessive stock??

 

[Counter-Errorist]

We wont see them in PAF until Egypt has taken delivery of all the aircraft meant to replace them.

Now this, if true, is news!

 

[GriffinsRule]

What that mean?? They replacing them which platform?? I mean are these not excessive stock??

Well EAF stood up a brand new 203 Tactical Fighter Wing and the 34 Squadron 'Wild Wolves' to equip the incoming Rafales. Another one will be raised once the deliveries are completed for all 24 aircraft by 2021. They are situated at the same airbase as the 252 TFW with a squadron each of Mirage 5s (71) and Mirage 2000s (82). I am guessing once that happens, things will get more clear and we will know more, ie, if the Mirage 5s will have to go to make room for the new arrivals or not. Still no idea which 3 squadrons will the new 46 some Mig-35s will equip (Im guessing good buy F-7s) but will see. So dont expect to hear about the Mirages until 2021-2022

 

[AsifIjaz]

Hi,

I have gained or lost nothing from pak military---.

You are a very shallow individual---if I have been critical---I have always given ways to work differently---think and act differently---.

But they are making the same blunders over and over again and again---. You can protect them as much as you can---but you can only cover up for them for so long---.

So let me get following points clear
1.
so u think u r critical and have "generously" shown alternatives but no one "paid heed" to ur advice and acted differently or as per ur suggestion.... So this makes the senior management and the servicemen disloyal and incompetent. ?
2.
U have nothing to gain or have nothing to loose from pak military..... Point taken sir,
a) but u still sit in america and tell ur made up stories of babylon castles, corruption in military and how to run defence operations and military tactics to people living in pak about their own military in which their loved ones serve and have died in wars. Either move here or please don't.
b) we have already accepted ur main claim hence it would be better if going forward, you please stop belching about it further. U have nothing to gain or loose so may i humbly suggest that let the people who have something at stake decide. If needed we will seek ur help.
I am no body to even suggest that you can not post on this forum or on the topic at hand.. Feel free to do that.
3.
U said that the military is making same blunders again and again..
Well sir,
a) since u have nothing to loose so please stop worrying and "burning the midnight oil" ... Thank you.
b) dont "cry us a river" that they did not listen to you and are making repeated fiascos as probably either ur suggestions were not worth it or may b u were "barking at the wrong tree" by typing here and not writing to ISPR and other relevant people.

We, pakistanis do not need a person, who has vowed or signed solemnly to defend his new motherland even against his country of origin (that being pakistan), to tell us in the most audacious and stupendous bollywood style that what is wrong with their own pak military and then quote an example of a peacock , a car engine, pharma industry and what not, just to provide some substance to his gibberish.
In short,
Sir, if u still have to grace us with ur posts then please learn a few things from fellow pakistanis, x pakistanis, non pakistanis, students, forum colleagues etc who live both within and outside pakistan but have a few things in common...
1-they are civil and humble
2- they do not carry a grudge that their ideas and suggestions were thrown in the bin and not decorated as probably they were not worth it.
3- they are mostly willing to learn and to be proven wrong
4. And lastly their narratives and allegations are supported by relevant facts and figures and not brain farts, street talk or irrelevant or out of context examples.

Lastly i humbly request you sir, to please stop derailing every military thread out here and kindly stay on thread title or topic.


Mods:
I am sorry for this post but i have had it with this unending talk and brain waves.
I like most ppl do not come here to read post after posts about personal fights, comments and about peacocks. I dont like to see young, fragile and tender youngsters being poisoned or mud being thrown indiscriminately and without any proof at my brothers, cousins, friends and fellow country men serving across pakistan.
Pleaseee enforce forum rules in their true spirit. Thank you

 

[airomerix]

So are you saying the Egyptian M3/5 deal is done and the platforms have arrived? Cause there is no news in this regsrd on the board.
A

It is definitely done. We do see increasing flights to Egypt by C-130's. I'm not aware of the cargo yet. But something is going on.

Also, PAF is looking to increase its squadron strength. Hence Mirage 5's are here to stay for atleast 10 more years.

 

[Silicon0000]

Guys can we come back to the topic

JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

 

[HRK]

You simply have no idea about the maths involved in the recent deal of the Egyptian mirages. They have been purchased on a throwaway price and will serve as dedicated strike platforms.

is it confirmation .... ???

 

[araz]

It is definitely done. We do see increasing flights to Egypt by C-130's. I'm not aware of the cargo yet. But something is going on.

Also, PAF is looking to increase its squadron strength. Hence Mirage 5's are here to stay for atleast 10 more years.

Thank you for your prompt response. Other sources had intimated that the process is on hold. It is reassuring to know that these M5s will soon become (I guess it will take a year+ for the lot to get thoroughly checked out and possibly over hauled prior to putting some in service) will become part of our active inventory.
On an unrelated topic what seems to be the delay in the Block3?. Is it the normal testing prior to induction or something else?. Secondly projected production rates are low at 12 when we have already been working at 16 ACs a year. Is it because of PAF waiting for newer tech(mostly engine changes) to come online or due to foreign orders? 26 Bravos would have been done by 21 so why the delay?
As always answer only if you are comfortable answering but if you dont that is fine as well.
A

We wont see them in PAF until Egypt has taken delivery of all the aircraft meant to replace them.

Some of these were already in storage were they not?
A

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

On an unrelated topic what seems to be the delay in the Block3?. Is it the normal testing prior to induction or something else?

I believe its the avionics. PAF will try everything to make Block 3 upto the mark with Rafale. They maybe still looking for Chineese products to get matured/Operational to put it in Thunder

 

[airomerix]

is it confirmation .... ???

Ofcourse it is.

What is not clear is the long term strategy with these airframes. The guys I asked were not related to Mirage fleet hence they didnt know for sure. However, the jets are definitely coming, it will be yet to be seen if PAF goes through the trouble of overhauling them at MRF. Since they are definitely inferior to ROSE II series currently in service with PAF. And non ROSE Mirages are no good for us.

Thank you for your prompt response. Other sources had intimated that the process is on hold. It is reassuring to know that these M5s will soon become (I guess it will take a year+ for the lot to get thoroughly checked out and possibly over hauled prior to putting some in service) will become part of our active inventory.

I think part of the reason of uncertainty is PAF's strategy of secrecy. We dont make noise until we are really there. Which is good.

On an unrelated topic what seems to be the delay in the Block3?. Is it the normal testing prior to induction or something else?. Secondly projected production rates are low at 12 when we have already been working at 16 ACs a year. Is it because of PAF waiting for newer tech(mostly engine changes) to come online or due to foreign orders? 26 Bravos would have been done by 21 so why the delay?
As always answer only if you are comfortable answering but if you dont that is fine as well.
A

There is no delay. Block III's are being built at PAC as we speak. I'm not sure about the stock of radars, or engine deliveries since all this is top secret. However, we all will be taken by a surprise when PAF rolls out multiple airframes of Block III at once just like JF-17B's. Who had expected to see 8 of those frames together at PAC built from ground up?

As for yearly capacity, we are actually short on capacity. Nigerian and Mymaar's order has slowed down PAF's deliveries. Thanks to JF-17B, the single seater Block III had a hard time finding jigs at the final assembly of AMF.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

As for yearly capacity, we are actually short on capacity. Nigerian and Mymaar's order has slowed down PAF's deliveries. Thanks to JF-17B, the single seater Block III had a hard time finding jigs at the final assembly of AMF.

So all orders of Maymar and Nigeria are being fullfilled by only PAC?

 

[StormBreaker]

It is definitely done. We do see increasing flights to Egypt by C-130's. I'm not aware of the cargo yet. But something is going on.

Also, PAF is looking to increase its squadron strength. Hence Mirage 5's are here to stay for atleast 10 more years.

Ofcourse it is.

What is not clear is the long term strategy with these airframes. The guys I asked were not related to Mirage fleet hence they didnt know for sure. However, the jets are definitely coming, it will be yet to be seen if PAF goes through the trouble of overhauling them at MRF. Since they are definitely inferior to ROSE II series currently in service with PAF. And non ROSE Mirages are no good for us.




I think part of the reason of uncertainty is PAF's strategy of secrecy. We dont make noise until we are really there. Which is good.


There is no delay. Block III's are being built at PAC as we speak. I'm not sure about the stock of radars, or engine deliveries since all this is top secret. However, we all will be taken by a surprise when PAF rolls out multiple airframes of Block III at once just like JF-17B's. Who had expected to see 8 of those frames together at PAC built from ground up?

As for yearly capacity, we are actually short on capacity. Nigerian and Mymaar's order has slowed down PAF's deliveries. Thanks to JF-17B, the single seater Block III had a hard time finding jigs at the final assembly of AMF.

Pardon my thread derailing post just like everyone else, but, is it true that if required, Our production can cross 20 per year ?

Ofcourse it is.

What is not clear is the long term strategy with these airframes. The guys I asked were not related to Mirage fleet hence they didnt know for sure. However, the jets are definitely coming, it will be yet to be seen if PAF goes through the trouble of overhauling them at MRF. Since they are definitely inferior to ROSE II series currently in service with PAF. And non ROSE Mirages are no good for us.




I think part of the reason of uncertainty is PAF's strategy of secrecy. We dont make noise until we are really there. Which is good.


There is no delay. Block III's are being built at PAC as we speak. I'm not sure about the stock of radars, or engine deliveries since all this is top secret. However, we all will be taken by a surprise when PAF rolls out multiple airframes of Block III at once just like JF-17B's. Who had expected to see 8 of those frames together at PAC built from ground up?

As for yearly capacity, we are actually short on capacity. Nigerian and Mymaar's order has slowed down PAF's deliveries. Thanks to JF-17B, the single seater Block III had a hard time finding jigs at the final assembly of AMF.

And yar, why no first flight video yet ? What is so secret of just a flight test video, when it eventually will fly very soon in front of the world