JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[m52k85]

The main advantage of IR based MAW sensors is greater range, however, identification of missile exhaust plumes against background IR clutter has been a problem with developing IR based MAWS. UV based MAWS don't have that problem, but they suffer from very short range (a few km) and interference from solar derived UV radiation, depending on the aspect angle of the missile engagement. Recent advances in software and IR sensors has allowed the development of IR based MAWS. Early production versions of the J-10C did not have the IR based MAW system, presumably because it was still under development, but later production models include both forward and rear aspect IR MAWS. The same system has been integrated on the JF-17 Block III.

The IR MAWS are seen in this later production J-10C, located at the top of the fin ECM fairing and air intake, in a similar manner as those on the Block-III

View attachment 667991

The research paper in the link below describes some background on IR vs UV based MAWS.

https://publications.tno.nl/publication/34618678/TP7xRE/neele-2005-two.pdf

So the link talks about how recent advances in image recognition are opening up avenue for IR based MAWS, it talks about how new 'stealth' propellants are harder to detect. This brings up two questions in my mind:

1. Most operational BVR missiles being single burn, i.e. the rocket burns only for first 4-10 secs of flight, are these not detectable by MAWS since by the time they get within range of MAWS (max 5 nm) they are only gliding by that time.
2. Does that mean newer dual-pulse BVRs are at a disadvantage (detection wise, not kinematics wise) since they have a terminal stage burn (allegedly)? Im sure the 2nd stage burn ignition could be optimized against MAWS range. Also of significance would be pitbull mechanics (range of missile radar and its stealthiness) since this is when the RWR would give away a missile approach.

 

[The Raven]

So the link talks about how recent advances in image recognition are opening up avenue for IR based MAWS, it talks about how new 'stealth' propellants are harder to detect. This brings up two questions in my mind:

1. Most operational BVR missiles being single burn, i.e. the rocket burns only for first 4-10 secs of flight, are these not detectable by MAWS since by the time they get within range of MAWS (max 5 nm) they are only gliding by that time.
2. Does that mean newer dual-pulse BVRs are at a disadvantage (detection wise, not kinematics wise) since they have a terminal stage burn (allegedly)? Im sure the 2nd stage burn ignition could be optimized against MAWS range. Also of significance would be pitbull mechanics (range of missile radar and its stealthiness) since this is when the RWR would give away a missile approach.

I think optical based MAWS (whether IR or UV) are optimised for short range fox-2 IR guided missiles, as they will not be detected by RWR sensors, while RWRs are for long range BVR missiles for when they go pitbull. In any case, long range IR based MAWS combined with RWR provides overlapping missile detection capability for greater situational awareness.

 

[The Eagle]

How's Russian reputation in regard to RWR/MAWs sensors quality?

 

[The Raven]

How's Russian reputation in regard to RWR/MAWs sensors quality?

I can't say how Russian systems compare with Western or Chinese counterparts, but the Russians have a long history of developing IR and UV based sensors. The Mig-29 and Su-27 were among the first fighters to widely use IRSTs for example. There latest generation Russian self protection systems for helicopters are especially impressive.

 

[The Eagle]

We have impressive ones, if I say.

 

[Marker]

We have impressive ones, if I say.

So JF-17 Block III is using Russian EW/ECM suit????

 

[Akh1112]

How's Russian reputation in regard to RWR/MAWs sensors quality?

Not great. The Russian optronics industry is severely neglected, like the rest of their aerospace industry. A lack of money lead to a lack of innovation which lead to them having to import things like FCS/ Thermal Sights for their T90's etc

 

[Marker]

It appears that PAF has not yet finalized the avionics and EW/ECM configuration package for JF-17 Block 3. European Market including UK, France, Sweden and Italy, other markets such as Turkey, SA and Brazil and eastern markets, China and Russia all are being explored.

There could be a huge resistance in European Market due to CPEC participation. Now PAF might be forced to explore other markets including Russia.

If my speculations are true than JF-17 Block 3 with complete package will be ready by the end of year 2021 and serial production of JF-17 Block 3 will start after 2021.

 

[Akh1112]

So JF-17 Block III is using Russian EW/ECM suit????

no.

 

[Akh1112]

It appears that PAF has not yet finalized the avionics and EW/ECM configuration package for JF-17 Block 3. European Market including UK, France, Sweden and Italy, other markets such as Turkey, SA and Brazil and eastern markets, China and Russia all are being explored.

There could be a huge resistance in European Market due to CPEC participation. Now PAF might be forced to explore other markets including Russia.

If my speculations are true than JF-17 Block 3 with complete package will be ready by the end of year 2021 and serial production of JF-17 Block 3 will start after 2021.

source?

 

[Marker]

source?

Strong hunch considering the geopolitical environment and PAF needs.

 

[Akh1112]

Strong hunch considering the geopolitical environment and PAF needs.

im gonna go ahead and call you out on your hunch considering the first 2 block 3's should be on PAC's line atm, alongside this, it will almost certainly be a chinese ew suite

 

[Khanate]

HUM reporter inquired about the upcoming BLK-3 and though the response was cagey, it is indicated that there will be an upgraded radar, the BLK-3 BVR missile will be the best in PAF arsenal and will have advance capabilities in sea-role.

Nothing on the new engine so far.

 

[CrazyZ]

HUM reporter inquired about the upcoming BLK-3 and though the response was cagey, it is indicated that there will be an upgraded radar, the BLK-3 BVR missile will be the best in PAF arsenal and will have advance capabilities in sea-role.

Nothing on the new engine so far.

Send this link to Larry Pressler. With out his pressure, PAC would never be doing this today. JF-17B3 will be more capable then any F-16 we received from the USA.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Strong hunch considering the geopolitical environment and PAF needs.

Please leave your hunch in the random box called "wild guesses". Block III is finalised and 2 units are built for testing right now ....