JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Zulfiqar]

If the article standalone was purchasable, i would have been the first one to do that... But IHS website seems so not user-friendly. Nothing is clear. If i go to client login, there is no option for registration.

@WebMaster Are you subscribed to Jane sir?

I would have purchased it as well. Don't have $ rolling around to purchase a full subscription and neither have such a need.

If GaN T/R modules are used then maybe no reduction on number of modules may take place.

I was thinking the same as well.

 

[Jinn Baba]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1225066712741171201

So it was clearly not an error.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Can we have any idea how much performance difference would be between air and liquid cooled versions of same radar. I think Chinese are perhaps the first one to offer an air cooled solution to AESA. We previously believe that only LKF601E was air cooled one which was not the case. So another question remains, what possible made PAF choose KLJ-7A instead of LKF601E?

 

[aliyusuf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1225066712741171201

So it was clearly not an error.

Thank you for the confirmation.

So now we have two sources confirming that it indeed is an Air-Cooled KLJ-7A AESA version.
1) Janes
2) Alan Warnes Twitter Account
This is the confirmation I was waiting for.
Kudos to everyone.

 

[Code_Geass]

Nobody have janes subscription here??

 

[StormBreaker]

Nobody have janes subscription here??

I asked a guy who has, he will send me article friday morning

 

[aliyusuf]

I asked a guy who has, he will send me article friday morning

If you receive the article, please don't forget to share.

 

[StormBreaker]

If you receive the article, please don't forget to share.

Other world ka webby

 

[Deino]

Thank you for the confirmation.

So now we have two sources confirming that it indeed is an Air-Cooled KLJ-7A AESA version.
1) Janes
2) Alan Warnes Twitter Account
This is the confirmation I was waiting for.
Kudos to everyone.

However I would rate these two only as one, since Alan Warnes posted de facto only at Twitter what he wrote for Jane's.

 

[kursed]

Liquid cooled KLJ-7A is one with main radar + 2 side-arrays.

Air cooled version of KLJ-7A is the main radar array only version.

Hope this provides the needed clarification.

 

[PakFactor]

Liquid cooled KLJ-7A is one with main radar + 2 side-arrays.

Air cooled version of KLJ-7A is the main radar array only version.

Hope this provides the needed clarification.

Capability they the same or the one with side arrays have more benefit?

 

[musaji]

https://www.janes.com/article/94094...irst-12-jf-17b-combat-aircraft-in-near-future

Admins, kindly delete if not allowed.

Pakistan Air Force to receive first 12 JF-17B combat aircraft ‘in near future’
Alan Warnes, Kamra - Jane's Defence Weekly
04 February 2020
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A JF-17B aircraft is pictured taxiing out for a test flight test from PAC Kamra in late January 2020. Source: Alan Warnes
Deliveries of the first 12 of 26 twin-seat JF-17B Thunder multirole combat aircraft on order for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) are expected to commence "in the near future", PAF officials have told Jane's .

Eight of these aircraft were built at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) in Kamra, while the remaining four were constructed by the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group (CAIG) in China, where the aircraft type is known as the FC-1 Xiaolong.

The aircraft, several of which are equipped with aerial refuelling probes, had been rolled out at PAC Kamra in late December 2019 during a ceremony that was also attended by the PAF's Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan. Delivery of the remaining JF-17Bs is expected to be completed by 2021.

Speaking to Jane's on 20 January, ACM Khan explained that the JF-17Bs will help to streamline the PAF's training process for the Thunder. "The JF-17 pilots are currently being posted to Lockheed Martin F-16, Chengdu F-7PG or Dassault Mirage IIIEA ROSE aircraft before converting to the JF-17," he said. "But they will start going straight to a JF-17 OCU [operational conversion unit] after completing their advanced jet training." ACM Khan added that this "will ensure that pilots transitioning to the Sino-Pakistani jet are a lot younger than they are now".

The JF-17B prototype made its first flight in China in April 2017.

Meanwhile, the PAF revealed that after a lengthy evaluation the air-cooled Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology (NRIET) KLJ-7A active electronically scanned-array (AESA) radar has been selected for the Block III variant of the JF-17/ FC-1 Xiaolong, the first prototype of which made its maiden flight on 17 December from CAIG's production facility at Chengdu-Huangtianba. PAC Kamra's newly appointed chairman, Air Marshal Syed Noman Ali, said a second Block III prototype will assist in May with the test and evaluation process.

 

[khanasifm]

Since last sqn was raised ie 28 12 single seaters and 12 dual seaters have been built the question is what the new unit getting them ? Assuming 16 would go to new unit plus dual seater spread across many sqn

Assuming a new ocu/sqn for jf besides 26 with 12 single plus some dual seaters

Sqn 14 had Moved out so a new one will take it place ??

 

[Signalian]

Assuming 16 would go to new unit plus dual seater spread across many sqn

That would be my guess too.

 

[NA71]

"Baolong" BLOCK3's radar finally arrived in Nanjing
Original Asia Railway StationAsia Railway StationYesterday
"Jane's Defense Weekly" announced today that the Pakistani Air Force will begin to receive the first batch of 12 "Shenlong" two-seater fighters. Meanwhile, Pakistani officials announced that they have identified the "Shenlong" BLOCK3 batch of radars. They finally selected the KLJ-7A active phased array radar at the 14th Nanjing Institute.

Earlier, there have been photos showing the status of the first prototype of the "Baolong" BLOCK3 fighter. The aircraft has not been equipped with radar, but the front fuselage structure and shape of the front fuselage are different from those of the BLOCK 2. This time, the Pakistani side officially confirmed that The end to the question of what type of radar of the "Baolong" BLOCK 3 will be.


Although the LKF-601E air-cooled active phased array radar of the Wuxi Institute 617 has the advantage of in-situ replacement (on the earlier version of the JF-17 fighter), it may be in the middle of the future extension of the second batch of JF-17 fighters in the future. Obtained new opportunities, but finally failed to be selected in the competition of BLOCK 3 batch fighter radar.

So KLJ-7A and LKF601E do not seem to have much difference in performance parameters such as maximum detection distance. On what basis is it selected?

Here we will introduce the advantages and disadvantages of air cooling and water cooling technology used in radar, and the differences between LKF-601E and KLJ-7A in cooling technology.

First of all, the selling point of the LKF601E radar developed by Wuxi 607 is "the world's first air-cooled active phased array radar". At the 2018 Zhuhai Air Show, AVIC Group demonstrated the model of this radar for the first time in the exhibition hall.


From the appearance of the model, the number of T / R originals of this radar may be close to that of the French "Gust" RBE-2 radar, about 800, and the output power of its T / R originals may also be somewhat Limit to reduce heat.

The author went through some papers, and can find many design schemes of air-cooled phased array antennas, but most of them are large-scale antennas for ground use, because air-cooling has certain requirements on antenna size and thickness. For the solution of airborne active array antenna cooling, I also saw several related articles. It should be said that basically it is necessary to cooperate with measures such as reducing output power and reducing T / R element density to ensure the normal operation of the radar.

In addition, the air-cooled radar has a problem that is not easy to solve, that is, as the altitude rises, the air density becomes thinner, which causes its heat dissipation capacity to decrease sharply.

According to relevant empirical values, at an altitude of 35,000 feet, the air flow of the air-cooled system will be reduced to 40% of the sea level.


Therefore, active phased array radars that require high heat dissipation use liquid cooling on most modern fighters.

We know that Pakistan is a country with a high average altitude, especially the Indian-Pakistani border area is a world-famous alpine mountain. This is an additional burden for air-cooled radar, and it may be necessary to further reduce power or limit use time. .

Compared with the LKF601E, the KLJ-7A radar uses a design scheme similar to the APG-81 on the US F-16V fighter, that is, the antenna itself is water-cooled, and then the existing air-cooling device on the fighter is used to cool the water-cooling system Of heat. The design of this water-cooled antenna + air-cooled system is less expensive than a comprehensive redesign of the front fuselage and an increase in heat dissipation.

Therefore, we saw that the front body of the J-10B \ C fighter with a water-cooled design was redesigned, and the "cheek" was increased. Although the "chuck" also stands out a bit from the BLOCK2 prototype, But it is not obvious.

The headspace dimensions of the Xiaolong fighter have reached the level of F-16 and J-10 fighters, so the aircraft can be equipped with mainstream airborne radar, without the need to modify the Israeli F-5E, "lion", etc. Like the plan, a "big nose" is installed on the fighter aircraft, and the performance is still far below the mainstream advanced airborne radar after modification.

From the data that can be confirmed at present, the parameters of the KLJ-7A's antenna T / R originals and other parameters are in the same grade as the APG-83. The published maximum detection distance, the number of simultaneous tracking / combat targets, and SAR imaging accuracy etc Basically equivalent, it can be inferred that the two are in the same grade.



Israel EL / M-2052 radar

After installing the KLJ-7A radar on the Biaolong Block3, its international competitiveness will increase significantly. Except for the US APG-83, only the ES-05 of Leonardo in Italy (has been approved by the Swedish "Gripen"). NG selection) radar can be compared with it, Israel's EL2052 radar is a lower grade.

As a result, the Dragon BLOCK3 can compete with the Gripen NG and F-16V at a much lower price.

However, the LKF601E is not without its way out. This type of radar can be directly installed in-situ in the head space of "Baolong" BLOCK1 and 2, directly replacing the old machine-scan radar. It is entirely possible to use it in the mid-life extension of various third-generation aircraft in the future. For example, Venezuela's F-16 modification is not impossible, and at the same time its performance is much higher than the Israeli EL-2052 radar of the same weight and size level. From this point of view, perhaps the future of this type of radar lies in foreign technical cooperation.

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/Y3z1Ev1RhEswHmjOytznpQ