JF-17 at Kamra Airbase

[Windjammer]

 

[Tempest II]

Are the photos in post #9 showing assymetrical loading? ... ... I cannot say for certain.

 

[owais.usmani]

 

[BATMAN]

And as for Delta designed aircraft, we are gonna have FC-20, so why need more JF-17 delta wing designed ??? FC-20 will have a delta design with canards.

Of course we have got the contract of FC20 but i was thinking we should have bought Gripen instead, at least one squarden.
I believe the price of FC20 would be around 40million and so would be of Grippen. Where as Grippen can share wepons, engine and link16 with F-16 and erieye.
the point is since we are going to enhance and maintain our inventory of F-16 than we should have bought at least one squarden of Gripen without hesitation and should have waited for FC20 until the engine, wepon, radar and AWACS situation is more clear.
FC20 should have been kept pure chinese platform instead of fusing western systems in it. It look swe are going to repeat same mistake as indians did with SU30.
Gripen would have also helped in improving the quality of JF-17 with early deliveries. Perhaps later we didn't needed to buy FC20 at all and we may end up with modifying JF-17 in to delta wings.
Just my opinion.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Of course we have got the contract of FC20 but i was thinking we should have bought Gripen instead, at least one squarden.
I believe the price of FC20 would be around 40million and so would be of Grippen. Where as Grippen can share wepons, engine and link16 with F-16 and erieye.
the point is since we are going to enhance and maintain our inventory of F-16 than we should have bought at least one squarden of Gripen without hesitation and should have waited for FC20 until the engine, wepon, radar and AWACS situation is more clear.
FC20 should have been kept pure chinese platform instead of fusing western systems in it. It look swe are going to repeat same mistake as indians did with SU30.
Gripen would have also helped in improving the quality of JF-17 with early deliveries. Perhaps later we didn't needed to buy FC20 at all and we may end up with modifying JF-17 in to delta wings.
Just my opinion.

Gripen has some US made/licensed weapon systems, due to which it was not a feasible option, plus Swedes are also not behind the americans when it comes to sanctioning. Hope you remember when Mushsraf declared emergency or something like that event happened a few years back, they stopped the supply of dozens of AA Orleikon systems on order, with the reason of democracy not being with held in the country.

So they are very unreliable too.

And buying a Sqd of Gripen is not a feasible option, as the operational cost and overall cost would have been great.

And PAF has enough fusion experience of combining east and west technology. So they aren't gonna make a debacle out of it.

JF-17 can communicate with Erieye, no issue in that.

And another issue with Gripen is that it has no customers in the arab world. Going after F-16s, one factor is that arabs have them and can be provided hopefully when required, so no logistical nightmare.

And InshAllah JF-17 would not be any less then Gripen, hopefully may even become better with future block versions.

 

[asim.mian10]

JF 17 IS KILLER

 

[BATMAN]

Dear TaimiKhan:

First of all........Orlikon is Swiss and they delivered what they agreed.
In case of sanctions our erieye are as **** as gripen may have been!

I'm not contesting or objecting the induction of F-16.... instead i'm saying Gripen with american engine and amraams may have only complimented an all american F-16.....an airframe which we are upgrading!
in shape of FC20 we will have every thing new.......which we should have decided with little more home work and testing and we should have given more time to Chinese for the development of FC20 according to our specs. instead of designing a new FC20 with Chinese out side and western inside sort of fusion.
As far i know Gripen has lowest operational costs and in life cycle cost, in longer run it turn out to be cheapest than any a/c available in market.
I trust that JF-17 are erieye enabled but later was not originally built for it.
Gripen works with erieye like no other a/c, there were chances of lot of training in netcentric warfare, which is the basic vision of Pakistan defence.
It is the same idea as PAF decided for SAAB2000 for hosting of erieye becasue it was designed around it.
Gripen may have complimented our mirrage fleet, immediately and we can save lot of man power used to test FC20 and laying out our requirements and later supervising perhaps the construction activities as well.
In case of gripen it may have been the opposite and this is where indians profit they learn from various contractors on their expense for years and than declare they know every thing.

All i'm thinking is of starting with one squardn only and some to learn for our JF-17 engineers as well.
I believe when PAF dumped it for the reasons of american parts...they didn't knew that they were going to get more F-16 and their parts plus MLU.

 

[mean_bird]

Of course we have got the contract of FC20 but i was thinking we should have bought Gripen instead, at least one squarden.
I believe the price of FC20 would be around 40million and so would be of Grippen. Where as Grippen can share wepons, engine and link16 with F-16 and erieye.
the point is since we are going to enhance and maintain our inventory of F-16 than we should have bought at least one squarden of Gripen without hesitation and should have waited for FC20 until the engine, wepon, radar and AWACS situation is more clear.
FC20 should have been kept pure chinese platform instead of fusing western systems in it. It look swe are going to repeat same mistake as indians did with SU30.
Gripen would have also helped in improving the quality of JF-17 with early deliveries. Perhaps later we didn't needed to buy FC20 at all and we may end up with modifying JF-17 in to delta wings.
Just my opinion.

Batman,

I am surprised by some of your views. Maybe you can clarify a few points in there

- Why do you think Gripen would have "helped improve the quality" of JF-17. What exactly would have improved by getting the Gripen that is lacking now? and how would getting a gripen improve it? considering we fly F-16s, even the latest blk 60version (for UAE) to have enough hands on experience.

- Why do you think JF-17 should go the Delta path? If we wanted a plane with a delta wing, we have have gone with it in the first place. The Chinese had experience with J10 so it would even have been easier.

- FC-20 is part of a hi-low mix. It is there to supplement the light weight workhorse, the JF-17. If we wanted JF-17 to be a medium weight fighter, we would have easily put that in the requirement or maybe just try to become partners in the J10 program in the first place.

Finally, you missed the point that inducting a new plane requires lots of efforts and finances. Even the blk 52, of which we already operate the F-16 for decades, needs training, maintenance facility, etc that is costing us. How do you justify such associated cost with just one squadron of a plane that comes with the same strings as a F-16 and is probably lower in capability?

 

[Super Falcon]

welll the green one looks good but what about the black tiger on it will be more better

 

[Aeri-Eye]

Great Pictures !

Thanks a lot for sharing

 

[Storm Force]

Gripens cost $50m each and carry USA engines.

JF17 costs $15m NO USA technology = no sanctions.

PAF made the right choice.

If the concern is the capability versis IAF top fighters PAF has F16/52 with amraams & soon J10 delta fighters.

PAF will not want a 4th or 5th combat type

 

[Wingman]

very nice pictures

 

[Dazzler]

Orlikons were blocked after emergency was announced and delivery resumed after elections. Agreed with the point that they are all still unreliable. A little twist was enough to verify this.

 

[FireFighter]

Dear TaimiKhan:

First of all........Orlikon is Swiss and they delivered what they agreed.
In case of sanctions our erieye are as **** as gripen may have been!

I'm not contesting or objecting the induction of F-16.... instead i'm saying Gripen with american engine and amraams may have only complimented an all american F-16.....an airframe which we are upgrading!
in shape of FC20 we will have every thing new.......which we should have decided with little more home work and testing and we should have given more time to Chinese for the development of FC20 according to our specs. instead of designing a new FC20 with Chinese out side and western inside sort of fusion.
As far i know Gripen has lowest operational costs and in life cycle cost, in longer run it turn out to be cheapest than any a/c available in market.
I trust that JF-17 are erieye enabled but later was not originally built for it.
Gripen works with erieye like no other a/c, there were chances of lot of training in netcentric warfare, which is the basic vision of Pakistan defence.
It is the same idea as PAF decided for SAAB2000 for hosting of erieye becasue it was designed around it.
Gripen may have complimented our mirrage fleet, immediately and we can save lot of man power used to test FC20 and laying out our requirements and later supervising perhaps the construction activities as well.
In case of gripen it may have been the opposite and this is where indians profit they learn from various contractors on their expense for years and than declare they know every thing.

All i'm thinking is of starting with one squardn only and some to learn for our JF-17 engineers as well.
I believe when PAF dumped it for the reasons of american parts...they didn't knew that they were going to get more F-16 and their parts plus MLU.

We can get 3 JF17s for the price of a single Grippen. In economic terms JF17s would be force multipliers with a peace of mind reliable sources for parts delievery and no sanctions bullsh!t to deal with.

Now do you think a single equipped Grippen can deliever the same results or 3 equipped JF17s in battlefield?

It's a no-brainer, really!!

As Taimikhan said, Give it a few more years, i'd say 3 more, and we'd be on par with the modern grippen or even more.

 

[FireFighter]

Thanks a lot guys for educating me on fighter jets.


Since we have BVR missile tech and advanced radars, My next question is how important is the speed (1.6 n/m vs grippens 1.8) and how it plays in an air craft's capabilities in modern 4th n 5th generation fighter jets?