Jet Engine Technology a Top Priority in India-US Talks

[mike2000 is back]

If you think that India is picking on its neighbors, than you must be a Pakistani or Bangladeshi. Or a Chinese. All westerners regard India as a peaceful country surround by terrorists. So think the Indians.....

Well, i did study international relations in Uni, and i have traveled extensively around the world and i always follow news updates around the world/do research on my own. So i know more about reading in between the lines about what media organizations all over the world say, i tend to do my own research personally when i am interested in something. So i don't really see things as black and white unlike many naive/biased people do.

Not everybody in the west thinks that way though. Anyway, as i said several times before, it;s not like i blame India(or even China) actions in the region though, since i know every country/power always try and protect their interests by all means necessary. In doing this,they often have to act 'aggressively'(so says their smaller neighbors) towards others as far as they get what they want/serves their interests. In Geo politics,anything is legitimate. lol
I only have a problem with people who try to frame it like they are holy and have never done any harm ever, while calling others as the evil imperialistic one .lol That's just hypocrisy to be honest.

 

[Vyom]

As if you dont import and all MKI engine is indian made?
Another mockery that shoots your own foot. 2 years ago for 300 engine is a very low number and now in 2015, we dont buy any more AL-31 engine. While Indian will continue import Russian engine in foreseen future becos Indian can't made any modern turbofan engine. Can't beat my facts and claim everything is propaganda. Indian is really pathetic in trying to shed their weakling image using whatever underhand method you can

MKI is Russian Plane customized for India and it has Russian engines. So you are claiming all your Aircrafts are Russian ?? Curious if you don't buy AL-31 anymore its good. those J10Bs will fly on what ? Clearly you don't have an engine.. just mock-ups.

Just curious, did HALever fly LCA with Kaveri? I know that it's flying with a GE engine now but did HAL ever flied Kaveri with LCA and find it unsatisfactory or Kaveri never made it that far?

If Kaveri is meant for LCA, than it had failed in context that it was not installed on LCA. But any project can be long running so Kaveri can become successful in a future project.

Ok lets get this straight. LCA is an independent project, the Kaveri Engine is an independent project , LCA is a project of ADA not HAL.

Aircraft engines are not batteries that can be changed at whim the entire Aircraft is built around the engine. The Current Variant is under testing for fuel consumption, alternative usages and thrust upgrade, etc. The entire aircraft will have to redesigned if we change the Engine now.

Now get this Kaveri is a Variable Cycle engine,

Kaveri's current performance is equivalent to GE-404 (which powers the LCA) , fuel consumption of Kaveri is on the higher side which is because of certain testing technologies denied by the various technology control regimes, currently that is being worked out (Entry to the groups as well as tech development), here have some data :

The GTRE GTX-35VS Kaveri Performance :

• Maximum thrust:
• Military thrust (throttled): 11,687 lbf (52.0 kN)
• Full afterburner: 18,210 lbf (81.0 kN) (planned to be refined to >95 kN)
• Specific fuel consumption:
• Military thrust (throttled): 0.78 lb/(lbf•h) (79.52 kg/(kN·h))
• Full afterburner: 2.03 lb/(lbf•h) (207.00 kg/(kN·h))
• Thrust-to-weight ratio (afterburning) : 7.8:1 (76.0 N/kg)

The General Electric F404 Performance

• Maximum thrust:
• 11,000 lbf (48.9 kN) military thrust
• 17,700 lbf (78.7 kN) with afterburner
• Overall pressure ratio: 26:1
• Bypass ratio: 0.34:1
• Specific fuel consumption:
• Military thrust: 0.81 lb/(lbf·h) (82.6 kg/(kN·h))
• Full afterburner: 1.74 lb/(lbf·h) (177.5 kg/(kN·h))
• Thrust-to-weight ratio: 4.8:1 (dry), 7.8:1 (wet/afterburning) (76.0 N/kg)

It is on a test bed, and will improve further, the GTRE is now running two separate successor engine programmes, the K9+ programme and the K10 programme.

Well, i did study international relations in Uni, and i have traveled extensively around the world and i always follow news updates around the world/do research on my own. So i know more about reading in between the lines about what media organizations all over the world say, i tend to do my own research personally when i am interested in something. So i don't really see things as black and white unlike many naive/biased people do.

Not everybody in the west thinks that way though. Anyway, as i said several times before, it;s not like i blame India(or even China) actions in the region though, since i know every country/power always try and protect their interests by all means necessary. In doing this,they often have to act 'aggressively'(so says their smaller neighbors) towards others as far as they get what they want/serves their interests. In Geo politics,anything is legitimate. lol
I only have a problem with people who try to frame it like they are holy and have never done any harm ever, while calling others as the evil imperialistic one .lol That's just hypocrisy to be honest.

Exactly, that's why i don't get the victim card being played by people, of all nationalities. In geopolitics Might (diplomatic, economic, covert, overt, any freaking thing that can be leveraged) is right. Its like a giant game of Chess, with no fixed rules, the black king can also have the white queen working for him, and even that's legitimate. That complaining is bull crap. US/UK/France/Russia/China will go to any extent to protect their interest, India does so in its limited sphere of influence, China does so in its sphere of influence.

The rules of geopolitics as framed by the UN and others are a facade which are circumvented. the smaller fishes can do little to prevent that, USA is the empire that controls the world, with varying degrees of control over certain areas. with eventually everything being made to work out in its interest. There is nothing wrong in that. The only thing that can be done is to align our interests with others, so that there is a win-win situation, confrontation won't yield any thing.

Having said that : There are lunatics in power in certain countries like North Korea, and a few others where even confrontation is a necessary way protecting interests for US. Same goes for Every other country. After all even War is form of diplomacy.

 

[Indian Jatt]

If you think that India is picking on its neighbors, than you must be a Pakistani or Bangladeshi. Or a Chinese. All westerners regard India as a peaceful country surround by terrorists. So think the Indians.....

he is a british citizen and all disputes with our neighbours are because of the F****** mc mohon line........its all because of british raaj....they never made the indian boundaries clear on the map and due to this pakistan and india are still fighting for Kashmir......and india has lost a war with china over aksai chin......

 

[mike2000 is back]

he is a british citizen and all disputes with our neighbours are because of the F****** mc mohon line........its all because of british raaj....they never made the indian boundaries clear on the map and due to this pakistan and india are still fighting for Kashmir......and india has lost a war with china over aksai chin......

But then again, the MacMahon line we created did favor the pearl of the British empire India. So if anything you should be grateful to us, since if not for us, all of your Arunachal Pradesh will be part of Tibet,China today. Since it was part of Tibet from the beginning, we just cared it out from them and made it part of our Indian Empire.

 

[faithfulguy]

But then again, the MacMahon line we created did favor the pearl of the British empire India. So if anything you should be grateful to us, since if not for us, all of your Arunachal Pradesh will be part of Tibet,China today. Since it was part of Tibet from the beginning, we just cared it out from them and made it part of our Indian Empire.

And China never acknowledge MacMahon line and regard it as British imperialism. India is just following British imperialism.

MKI is Russian Plane customized for India and it has Russian engines. So you are claiming all your Aircrafts are Russian ?? Curious if you don't buy AL-31 anymore its good. those J10Bs will fly on what ? Clearly you don't have an engine.. just mock-ups.



Ok lets get this straight. LCA is an independent project, the Kaveri Engine is an independent project , LCA is a project of ADA not HAL.

Aircraft engines are not batteries that can be changed at whim the entire Aircraft is built around the engine. The Current Variant is under testing for fuel consumption, alternative usages and thrust upgrade, etc. The entire aircraft will have to redesigned if we change the Engine now.

Now get this Kaveri is a Variable Cycle engine,

Kaveri's current performance is equivalent to GE-404 (which powers the LCA) , fuel consumption of Kaveri is on the higher side which is because of certain testing technologies denied by the various technology control regimes, currently that is being worked out (Entry to the groups as well as tech development), here have some data :

The GTRE GTX-35VS Kaveri Performance :

• Maximum thrust:
• Military thrust (throttled): 11,687 lbf (52.0 kN)
• Full afterburner: 18,210 lbf (81.0 kN) (planned to be refined to >95 kN)
• Specific fuel consumption:
• Military thrust (throttled): 0.78 lb/(lbf•h) (79.52 kg/(kN·h))
• Full afterburner: 2.03 lb/(lbf•h) (207.00 kg/(kN·h))
• Thrust-to-weight ratio (afterburning) : 7.8:1 (76.0 N/kg)

The General Electric F404 Performance

• Maximum thrust:
• 11,000 lbf (48.9 kN) military thrust
• 17,700 lbf (78.7 kN) with afterburner
• Overall pressure ratio: 26:1
• Bypass ratio: 0.34:1
• Specific fuel consumption:
• Military thrust: 0.81 lb/(lbf·h) (82.6 kg/(kN·h))
• Full afterburner: 1.74 lb/(lbf·h) (177.5 kg/(kN·h))
• Thrust-to-weight ratio: 4.8:1 (dry), 7.8:1 (wet/afterburning) (76.0 N/kg)

It is on a test bed, and will improve further, the GTRE is now running two separate successor engine programmes, the K9+ programme and the K10 programme.



Exactly, that's why i don't get the victim card being played by people, of all nationalities. In geopolitics Might (diplomatic, economic, covert, overt, any freaking thing that can be leveraged) is right. Its like a giant game of Chess, with no fixed rules, the black king can also have the white queen working for him, and even that's legitimate. That complaining is bull crap. US/UK/France/Russia/China will go to any extent to protect their interest, India does so in its limited sphere of influence, China does so in its sphere of influence.

The rules of geopolitics as framed by the UN and others are a facade which are circumvented. the smaller fishes can do little to prevent that, USA is the empire that controls the world, with varying degrees of control over certain areas. with eventually everything being made to work out in its interest. There is nothing wrong in that. The only thing that can be done is to align our interests with others, so that there is a win-win situation, confrontation won't yield any thing.

Having said that : There are lunatics in power in certain countries like North Korea, and a few others where even confrontation is a necessary way protecting interests for US. Same goes for Every other country. After all even War is form of diplomacy.

Why did Hal decided to abandon Kaveri for LCA. It look like Hal has no need of doing that base on your Comparison of ge-404 vs Kaveri.

 

[Vyom]

Why did Hal decided to abandon Kaveri for LCA. It look like Hal has no need of doing that base on your Comparison of ge-404 vs Kaveri.

Okay the reason I have given in it read again and also, HAL isn't developing the areo engine, its GTRE. and its not abandoned K9+ and K10 programs are underway. read again.

 

[faithfulguy]

Okay the reason I have given in it read again and also, HAL isn't developing the areo engine, its GTRE. and its not abandoned K9+ and K10 programs are underway. read again.

It's not in #123. Unless you are saying that fuel consumption is what prompted the change.

 

[Vyom]

It's not in #123. Unless you are saying that fuel consumption is what prompted the change.

Design Changes, the aircraft is built around GE404. a different Engine will change the entire load distribution and surface control laws. it will again be subjected to developing the avionic suit. Its flawed to think that a new flying platform can accommodate a new engine. that too with such limited test facilities, thanks to decades of tech sanctions.

 

[faithfulguy]

Design Changes, the aircraft is built around GE404. a different Engine will change the entire load distribution and surface control laws. it will again be subjected to developing the avionic suit. Its flawed to think that a new flying platform can accommodate a new engine. that too with such limited test facilities, thanks to decades of tech sanctions.

LCA was redesigned for GE404 after Kaveri was abandoned. So this is after the facts. Why was it changed from Kaveri in the first place. I always thought that it did not have enough thrust. But your data does not indicate that.

 

[Vyom]

LCA was redesigned for GE404 after Kaveri was abandoned. So this is after the facts. Why was it changed from Kaveri in the first place. I always thought that it did not have enough thrust. But your data does not indicate that.

LCA was redesigned for GE404 after Kaveri was abandoned ???

That sir is stroke of genius !! please put things into perspective.

1. GE404 is the only engine that ever flew the LCA.
2. Kaveri was still in development when LCA first flight and all other prototypes were made. (can you design a car for an Engine whose final weight and other specification are unknown let alone an aircraft ?)

 

[faithfulguy]

LCA was redesigned for GE404 after Kaveri was abandoned ???

That sir is stroke of genius !! please put things into perspective.

1. GE404 is the only engine that ever flew the LCA.
2. Kaveri was still in development when LCA first flight and all other prototypes were made. (can you design a car for an Engine whose final weight and other specification are unknown let alone an aircraft ?)

1. It's because Kavari was never ready.
2. Kavari was suppose to go on LCA. But when Kavari fall behind schedule. LCA was designed for GE404.

This is how I understand it.

 

[Vyom]

1. It's because Kavari was never ready.
2. Kavari was suppose to go on LCA. But when Kavari fall behind schedule. LCA was designed for GE404.

This is how I understand it.

1. You cannot put a date on an R&D project, Its Not an "Engineering project". As you yourself has said it can be in development for a long time. Kaveri Parameters are the latest ones from 2014 it was delinked from LCA in 2008
2. Yes, It was uncertain as We were sanctioned to the balls. hence an operational engine was chosen.

In my opinion Engine and aircraft should be developed independently. glad that the government realized in 2008.

hence we are on the same ground. bye.