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Jerusalem Post: The Turkish saga

Solomon2

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The Turkish saga

By JPOST EDITORIAL08/07/2013 22:39

The West – Israel included – needs to decide with whom it would rather do business, or with whom it can do business in Turkey.

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Anti-government protesters demonstrate on a street in central Ankara Photo: REUTERS

Turkish Premier Recep Tayyip Erdogan was one of the most vociferous critics of the overthrow of Egyptian president Mohamed Morsi. He and Morsi were cut from the same Islamist cloth and both steadily began a phased anti-military purge. Erdogan, however, enjoyed a long head start, whereas wary generals, who saw the handwriting on the wall in Ankara, stopped latecomer Morsi in his tracks.

Not long after Morsi was deposed on July 3, the drawn-out Turkish saga reached its climax when former chief of staff Gen. Ilker Basbug was sentenced to life imprisonment for his role in an alleged conspiracy to topple Erdogan.

Basbug was not alone. Nearly 300 people were prosecuted, including prominent politicians and journalists.

Three serving opposition parliamentarians from the Republican People’s Party were sent up for between 12 and 35 years each.

Superficially, this can be presented as a victory for democracy, just as the same superficiality portrays the Egyptian upheaval as a blow against democracy.

US President Barack Obama toes this line. He gave unstinting support to Erdogan over the years, despite his excesses, not only as the people’s choice but as a prime example of the ostensible compatibility of Islamic religiosity and democracy. For these same reasons Obama boosted Morsi. Europe followed suit with unconcealed alacrity.

Too bad the leaders of the Free World did not understand what President Shimon Peres said back in 1980, after the Turkish generals’ last attempt to seize power and impose their will (for the third time since 1960).

Peres pointed out then that Turkey debunks the accepted wisdom that the military is anti-democratic. In Turkey’s case, Peres argued, the military is democracy’s guardian.

Over the decades since modern Turkey’s founding father, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, rescued his country from Ottoman decay, it was Turkey’s military that defended his progressive constitution and prevented the reemergence of Muslim clerical domination.

This might not have created a liberal democracy in Western terms, but it built a bulwark against reaction and hence became the lesser of likely evils. The same happened in Egypt, where the army stood behind every ruler from Gamal Abdel Nasser to Hosni Mubarak.

Obama didn’t get it in Turkey. He misread Egypt so badly that he abandoned Mubarak and ushered in Muslim Brotherhood hegemony.

But the big picture that eluded Obama was not misunderstood in Cairo and Ankara. Egypt’s beleaguered generals did not fail to draw operative conclusions from what was happening to their Turkish counterparts, while Erdogan instantly comprehended what Morsi’s ouster signified. Erdogan lashed out vehemently against Egypt’s military leaders, not least because they preempted the prospect of them ending up like his opponents.

Erdogan managed a piecemeal transformation whose cumulative effects are becoming increasingly intolerable to secular upwardly mobile Turks. The return to Islamic garb for women, which Ataturk forbade, the compulsory Koran classes in schools, restrictions on alcohol sales and even bans on bright lipstick for Turkish airlines stewardesses, all add up.

“Insulting Islam” has become a punishable crime in courts controlled by the government. Erdogan’s party, which rose on a strident anti-corruption campaign, is perceived as more corrupt than its predecessors. The Erdogan personality cult – exemplified in his omnipresent portraits – exacerbates the antipathy, as do his vituperative outbursts, of the sort he has frequently aimed at Israel, but which also proliferate against domestic targets.

The pugnacious Erdogan now aims to run for president, since he cannot continue for another term as prime minister. Accordingly, he aims to change the rules of the game and make the presidency more potent.

Those urban Turks who are relatively Europeanized have cause for concern.

As Peres opined all those years ago, the Middle East demolishes clichés. In this region liberal secularists put their trust in the military, whereas the forces of Islam are its hardly democratic adversaries. Chipping away at the military hierarchy – to say nothing of eliminating it – bolsters the fundamentalists and brings theocracy ever closer.

No alternative is democratic, but the West – Israel included – needs to decide with whom it would rather do business, or with whom it can do business.
 
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Turkey paid of all its debts to the IMF, went from a net borrower to a net lender and ..... lo and behold
 
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This is a good summary of the situation in Turkey.
Our army used to make sure that the country stays secular and doesnt become an islamic state.
Now that the army is ''gone''Erdogan dictates.
For some countries Democracy is the enemy,mine is one of them
 
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For some countries Democracy is the enemy,mine is one of them
Democratic forms are not enough to ensure the prevalence of democratic values. By asserting Islam as supreme over democracy Erdogan has been whittling away Turks' freedoms and heritage. I guess that only a movement asserting civil values over Islamic ones will suffice to drive Erdogan's party out in a free election.

However, you'll then have to worry about the legacy he's left behind. Are you going to dismantle the mosques he plans to build or not?
 
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This is a good summary of the situation in Turkey.
Our army used to make sure that the country stays secular and doesnt become an islamic state.
Now that the army is ''gone''Erdogan dictates.
For some countries Democracy is the enemy,mine is one of them

You have problems with Erdoğan dictating, while he's a chosen leader.
You have no problems with the army's dictates.

For some people of your country, the army is the enemy of democracy.
@Solomon2

While you're at it why not publish a report about Israel exporting products from occupied areas under the made in Israel stamp.
How they are stepping on the international laws by this process and how they use the antisemitism joker card to justify this crime.
 
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This is a good summary of the situation in Turkey.
Our army used to make sure that the country stays secular and doesnt become an islamic state.
Now that the army is ''gone''Erdogan dictates.
For some countries Democracy is the enemy,mine is one of them

Mine too, mate.
 
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You have problems with Erdoğan dictating, while he's a chosen leader.
You have no problems with the army's dictates.

For some people of your country, the army is the enemy of democracy.
@Solomon2

While you're at it why not publish a report about Israel exporting products from occupied areas under the made in Israel stamp.
How they are stepping on the international laws by this process and how they use the antisemitism joker card to justify this crime.
I dont have a problem with a chosen leader,the fking problem i have is when this chosen leader tries to change a secular country into a islamic rule country GOT IT?

Mine too, mate.
Why yours to?
Your country doing just fine as far as i know,or am i missing something?
 
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I dont have a problem with a chosen leader,the fking problem i have is when this chosen leader tries to change a secular country into a islamic rule country GOT IT?


Why yours to?
Your country doing just fine as far as i know,or am i missing something?

How does he change this country in to a İslamic country?

Now don't come with this alcohol restriction thing. Similar laws are present at our country of residence as well.
 
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How does he change this country in to a İslamic country?

Now don't come with this alcohol restriction thing. Similar laws are present at our country of residence as well.
Didnt we have this discussion before at the Gezi Park thread,do we have to start all over again?

West is concerned with "Whoever serves West's interests", It has never been about democracy, freedom, secularism, etc....

Who cares about the west,i care for my country only.
 
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The Zionist Propaganda machinery is in full swing destroying democratically elected governments in the Middle Est. This shows the HYPOCRISY OF THE ZIONIST. Their idea of Democracy is when their puppet wins.


@123456 , the ZIONSTS are not Friends of Turkey. They want to stir up trouble in Turkey just like Egypt to pitch Turks against Turks to destroy Turkey. Wake up and smell the Coffee, my friend.
 
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Didnt we have this discussion before at the Gezi Park thread,do we have to start all over again?



Who cares about the west,i care for my country only.

No we don't have to.

But if you really desire for a true democracy, then put the power and the future of your country in your peoples hand, not the military :)
 
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This is a good summary of the situation in Turkey.
Our army used to make sure that the country stays secular and doesnt become an islamic state.
Now that the army is ''gone''Erdogan dictates.
For some countries Democracy is the enemy,mine is one of them



Democracy ensures that the majority gets to set the rules. Their majority, their government, their rules.

Why should the majority of people live under your rules.

If you want to change the rules, win at the ballot box. Simple.

If you want Street thuggery, then the result will be same as Egypt.

So decide you want things settled through the ballot box or through murder or mayhem in the Street.
 
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No we don't have to.

But if you really desire for a true democracy, then put the power and the future of your country in your peoples hand, not the military :)
You know my vieuw about democracy;)
Just answer me one question,i want your honest answer.
How many in your familly(all of your relatives also in Turkey or where ever)do know the true meaning of democracy?
I can answer about mine and i have a big familly,i would say 30% and only because those have at least MBO/HBO level here and at least lise level there.
So you need some kind of education to GET it.
See,even here in Europe only 60% knows the real meaning of democracy.
For democracy to work you need at least a 50%.
Look at Wilders how many of his votes are from at least MBO to academics,5/10% maybe?
 
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Oh come on dude @T-123456 - You're just jealous of Erdogan - My Man, because chicks dig him ! :smokin:
 
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