JAS GRIPEN

[messenger]

buts its old cold war tech... you mean mig-35?

yeah he meant mig-35 .

 

[duhastmish]

you mean what russia did in t-90, brahmos ( both now sorted out ) , gorshkov was perfectly ok for you . !


and yeah you trusted russians that they would not provide engines for jf-17 , but didnt they break your trust . !

Dude!!!! well t-90, brhamos are both sorted out and most of all we got them- Can you imagine India getting a similer deal with any other country ?
BTW the need of Indian side keep changing with time, we take loads of time to finalize what we want - which result in change of pricing. Its still a great deal.

The problem is in us - for finalizing what we need and process, so we are making - MK1 in india- do u think we are making them faster than Russians ??????????

We got su-30- mk1. do u know - even Russia don't have such good sukhoi ?

We are making brahmos -2 version and we have brahmos -1 russia dont have it in their arsenal.

We are making a -PAK-FA, technology is their, brain ( major part is their ) and we are 50% share holder .

Well if Russia didn't provide them - with jf-17 engine somebody else would have. at least now - pakistan depand somewhat on russia which works in Indian favor.

For all you american and European fan boy- i tell you we have lots of joint venture going with russia and lot planned and INDO-RUSSIAN - friendship is stronger than ever.

We need to respect our friend who helped in our survival and who are pioneer of our - defense science and research.

Yes we should not base our self totally on russians , that we are doing -with our indegenious production , and we are tieing Joint venture with russians, and goign for israel and american system.

Nothign wrong in providing engine or fighter to china - they are businessman too just like us. they are not dead brain , they are one of the smartest race of people.
And brother i an not offending you just telling you truth - just search a lil bit more to find the truth.
Groskhov is still a much better deal -for what we are paying. Our requirment changed alot - its not the same ship anymore - its been mkIsed. It will be totally diffrent for what we wanted and were gettign in first.

 

[messenger]

Dude!!!! well t-90, brhamos are both sorted out and most of all we got them- Can you imagine India getting a similer deal with any other country ?
BTW the need of Indian side keep changing with time, we take loads of time to finalize what we want - which result in change of pricing. Its still a great deal. :

indian requirement didnt change during gorshkov . russians demanded more money . it may be because of the recession , i dont know . but in a bilateral relationship , its not good .
both the issues were sorted out but if they are our real friends then why did they put up those issues ?

i agree that what we get from russia , we cant get from anyone else right now . but it doesnt mean that we will stick with only one supplier . acc to me russian tech has lost that edge which it used to have in the 70s and 80s .

The problem is in us - for finalizing what we need and process, so we are making - MK1 in india- do u think we are making them faster than Russians ??????????

We got su-30- mk1. do u know - even Russia don't have such good sukhoi ?

We are making brahmos -2 version and we have brahmos -1 russia dont have it in their arsenal.

We are making a -PAK-FA, technology is their, brain ( major part is their ) and we are 50% share holder .


For all you american and European fan boy- i tell you we have lots of joint venture going with russia and lot planned and INDO-RUSSIAN - friendship is stronger than ever.

We need to respect our friend who helped in our survival and who are pioneer of our - defense science and research.

Yes we should not base our self totally on russians , that we are doing -with our indegenious production , and we are tieing Joint venture with russians, and goign for israel and american system.:

what does it prove ?

Well if Russia didn't provide them - with jf-17 engine somebody else would have. at least now - pakistan depand somewhat on russia which works in Indian favor.
Nothign wrong in providing engine or fighter to china - they are businessman too just like us. they are not dead brain , they are one of the smartest race of people.
And brother i an not offending you just telling you truth - just search a lil bit more to find the truth.
Groskhov is still a much better deal -for what we are paying. Our requirment changed alot - its not the same ship anymore - its been mkIsed. It will be totally diffrent for what we wanted and were gettign in first.

i also think that gorshkov is still a great deal , but the problem is why did they increase the price and just at the same time denied us some key technology .

at the international level nobody is friend . they are selling weapons to india and china coz they are getting money in return . it a global phenominon .

im sorry if i offended you but im just asking you some questions

 

[duhastmish]

Gorshkov was concluded on January 20, 2004 at a total cost of 1.5 billion US dollar.

price break up was: $974 million for repair and upgrade of the ship; and the remainder of $526 million for 16 embarked (12 single seat + 4 double seat) MIG-29 jet fighters and six Kamov Ka-27 and Ka-31 Helix helicopters.

Now all the details of the contractual provisions are not available to anybody as yet.
but what came out :::::Gorshkov deal has two components in terms of financial cost.
1. repair and upgrade of the ship, which was determined at $974 million.
2.cost of weaponisation of the ship, which amounted to $526 million.

now in first case ::::::60 to 70 per cent of the increased cost is due to ongoing maintenance and upgrade of the ship.

new aircraft carrier of roughly comparable capability would be available between $3 and 4 billion. but then you have to add embedded ordnance system to the new ship.
--------------------------

Now if india dont like the agreement- Russian Defence Ministry official was quoted as having told news agencies that the aircraft would join the Russian Navy in case India does not agree to pay the revised price. This observation could particularly hurt the Indian Establishment much more than the hike in the price since the ship has already been re-christened as the ‘INS Vikramaditya’.


-------------------------------------
existing joint projects and upcoming ones between the two countries are worth more than $10 billion.
-------------------------------------

indian requirement didnt change during gorshkov . russians demanded more money . it may be because of the recession , i dont know . but in a bilateral relationship , its not good .
both the issues were sorted out but if they are our real friends then why did they put up those issues ?

i agree that what we get from russia , we cant get from anyone else right now . but it doesnt mean that we will stick with only one supplier . acc to me russian tech has lost that edge which it used to have in the 70s and 80s .

Sir they are friendly and this is a diplomatic friendship- they aren ot givign us any bheek- they give something to us because they get something. but to establish such diplomatic friendship is tough. and we have established it so we should honor it.

the price escalation was because of addition of new equipment and no russia wont bear such cost - its a big sum in billions of $ they needed money as much we need - both are developig nations.

yes we are not bound to them totally - thats what i said earlier- exactly they are not bound to us either -to sell al l their weapons.so no issue if they go to china to sell their arms.

Can you tell me why russian technology have lost edge ??? why did you say so- all of our and chinese technology is based on russian technology. Russian still hold the edge in world arms. with sukhoi to mig35 to brahmos and pak-fa
they need money they got all technology read on paper which american are tryign to work out for many of their projects.

------------------------------------

just at the same time denied us some key technology .

which key technology if you elaborate ? we can discuss it.
---------------------------------

At the international level nobody is friend . they are selling weapons to india and china coz they are getting money in return . it a global phenominon .

i said earlier.-its strategic and diplomatic. friend- which is hard to maintain and gain.
-----------------------------------

im sorry if i offended you but im just asking you some questions

pffft messenger - no you didnt offend me - rather you bein indian belong to me more than russia - lol - i value you more than russia- so it will be stupid of me to offend you for russia - isnt it ?

 

[messenger]

Gorshkov was concluded on January 20, 2004 at a total cost of 1.5 billion US dollar.

price break up was: $974 million for repair and upgrade of the ship; and the remainder of $526 million for 16 embarked (12 single seat + 4 double seat) MIG-29 jet fighters and six Kamov Ka-27 and Ka-31 Helix helicopters.

Now all the details of the contractual provisions are not available to anybody as yet.
but what came out :::::Gorshkov deal has two components in terms of financial cost.
1. repair and upgrade of the ship, which was determined at $974 million.
2.cost of weaponisation of the ship, which amounted to $526 million.

now in first case ::::::60 to 70 per cent of the increased cost is due to ongoing maintenance and upgrade of the ship.

new aircraft carrier of roughly comparable capability would be available between $3 and 4 billion. but then you have to add embedded ordnance system to the new ship.
--------------------------

Now if india dont like the agreement- Russian Defence Ministry official was quoted as having told news agencies that the aircraft would join the Russian Navy in case India does not agree to pay the revised price. This observation could particularly hurt the Indian Establishment much more than the hike in the price since the ship has already been re-christened as the ‘INS Vikramaditya’.


-------------------------------------
existing joint projects and upcoming ones between the two countries are worth more than $10 billion.
-------------------------------------



Sir they are friendly and this is a diplomatic friendship- they aren ot givign us any bheek- they give something to us because they get something. but to establish such diplomatic friendship is tough. and we have established it so we should honor it.

the price escalation was because of addition of new equipment and no russia wont bear such cost - its a big sum in billions of $ they needed money as much we need - both are developig nations.

yes we are not bound to them totally - thats what i said earlier- exactly they are not bound to us either -to sell al l their weapons.so no issue if they go to china to sell their arms.

Can you tell me why russian technology have lost edge ??? why did you say so- all of our and chinese technology is based on russian technology. Russian still hold the edge in world arms. with sukhoi to mig35 to brahmos and pak-fa
they need money they got all technology read on paper which american are tryign to work out for many of their projects.

------------------------------------



which key technology if you elaborate ? we can discuss it.
---------------------------------


i said earlier.-its strategic and diplomatic. friend- which is hard to maintain and gain.
-----------------------------------


pffft messenger - no you didnt offend me - rather you bein indian belong to me more than russia - lol - i value you more than russia- so it will be stupid of me to offend you for russia - isnt it ?

thank you for the last line .

i think we are both trying to reach the same conlusion but with different approach .

common final goal - we have to stop our dependence on russia .

if you look closely then you will find that russia has not done much things since its breakdown .
all its latest fighters mki, mig-35 are based on old airframes ( 70s or 80s ) ( also the thing is that they are still very good . )
russians were the first to send sattelite into orbit . didnt you expect more from them now after 50 years . uring the cold war usa and ussr were neck to neck . but see the diff now .

they are recovering , thats good for us .

ok i think you are right on gorshkov . i admit that .

this is what i tried to prove that that russia is no india 's friend . its a diplomatic relationship . they can ditch us under some adverse conditions .so we will have to be ready with some alternatives .

 

[duhastmish]

Only way out is - self dependance -

And we are approaching in that direction may be with faulty steps in start, but we are heading there. but you know, i highly doubt Russian will ditch us. Since we are still the biggest arms buyer from Russia.

Russia actually trust India too more than china- well they dnt really have much option too - and thats why - all new projects are - joint ventures, because we realized our potentials.

We are moving at a uniform level too- it will be most stupid thing to depand on one country for your defence - yes we can not depand on russia much - thats why we have Israel and America on our side. but still i think for now we still have Russia as the most reliable partner. compared to anybody else.

 

[messenger]

Only way out is - self dependance -

And we are approaching in that direction may be with faulty steps in start, but we are heading there. but you know, i highly doubt Russian will ditch us. Since we are still the biggest arms buyer from Russia.

Russia actually trust India too more than china- well they dnt really have much option too - and thats why - all new projects are - joint ventures, because we realized our potentials.

We are moving at a uniform level too- it will be most stupid thing to depand on one country for your defence - yes we can not depand on russia much - thats why we have Israel and America on our side. but still i think for now we still have Russia as the most reliable partner. compared to anybody else.

true . its time to move on

 

[messenger]

ok what about gripen against f-16in ( block 70 ) . !

 

[sancho]

ok what about gripen against f-16in ( block 70 ) . !

Hard to say, both has AESA radar, can use US weapons, are single engine with SC capabilities. Maybe the Gripen is better in manouverability with it's canards? Would be nice to see such an exercise.

 

[messenger]

Hard to say, both has AESA radar, can use US weapons, are single engine with SC capabilities. Maybe the Gripen is better in manouverability with it's canards? Would be nice to see such an exercise.

bro can f-16in sc .? i didnt know that

 

[sms]

Saab Taps Selex for Gripen E-Scan Radar
ROME - Saab is set to team with Finmeccanica unit Selex Galileo to develop an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar for its Gripen Next Generation (NG) aircraft, the firm said March 26.

The radar will be offered to Brazil, which is considering the Gripen NG for a new fighter order, Saab said, but the signed heads of agreement also foresees "long-term collaboration" between Selex and two Saab units, Saab Aerosystems and Saab Microwave Systems.

A Saab spokesman did not rule out offering the radar for upgrades of Gripens that are already in service.

The radar will be based on Selex's Vixen e-scan radar, but also will use "functionality" from the PS-05/A radar currently mounted on Gripen aircraft, the firm said.

Selex this week announced the first sale of its e-scan Vixen radar, albeit a smaller version than that destined for the Gripen. U.S. Customs and Border Protection will mount the radar on its C-550 Citation Tracker aircraft.

Saab Taps Selex for Gripen E-Scan Radar - Defense News

 

[indiatech]

March 25, 2009, (Sawf News) - Saab has tied up with SELEX Galileo to co-develop an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar for the Gripen Next Generation (NG) program, a MMRCA contender.

SELEX Galileo is owned by Italy's Finmeccanica Group. It is developing the VIXEN 500E, a small AESA radar for use on small lightweight fighter aircraft. The radar currently does not have any customers. It has approximately 500 T/R modules. There is also a variant with 750 T/R modules under development. The range of the Vixen 500E is given as 35 nautical miles (65 km).

The agreement, immediately aimed at Brazil's Fighter program, marks the start of long-term collaboration between the two Saab business units; Saab Aerosystems and Saab Microwave Systems, and SELEX Galileo.

The tie-up could impact SAAB's MMRCA bid, if the procurement process continues to get delayed.

 

[messenger]

still i dont think that gripen has any chance .

 

[sancho]

bro can f-16in sc .? i didnt know that

Yeah more or less, there are different reports. Some say it can SC at Mach 1.1, but if I understand it right US count it only as SC at Mach 1.5. Gripen NG and EF on the other side say also they can SC, but at Mach 1.2 / 1.3. So maybe it depends on the definition.

 

[Super Falcon]

gripen will not last long if used in asian space because here most countries have very good sam system and fighter jets to counter gripen but gripen is better than mirage 2000