Japan's best strategy to defeat China at sea

[ChineseTiger1986]

I believe Chinese is not that stupid to joining their MAD invitation as Chinese is at much disadvantage position while US has much presence in Pacific. That's why any conflict between China and Japan will be conducted conventionally as Chinese leader still believe, Nuclear exchange will favor US more than their. But the problem is, Japan-US forces combined still hold advantage in this area, and that's why China can't made any significant progress over their claim in Senkaku.

A different case happened when China confronting Philippine, as their military is a joke and US itself doesn't see Philippine government taking Chinese threat seriously and engulfed themselves into corruption and scandalous incident. So why bother with them, as long as Philippine mainland doesn't to be attacked, US-Philippine mutual alliance doesn't work.

No one would win in a nuclear exchange since your opponent also has more than 1000 nukes.

The US is being controlled by a group of wealthy businessmen, and they are fighting China for the dominance via a proxy war, but to directly fight China or Russia means everyone would lose at the end.

They are not stupid to risk their life just for some stupid rocks in the middle of the East China Sea or South China Sea.

 

[IPen]

@ChineseTiger1986
Dude,no need to argue with those guys about military ability.
Every country has its own style.For example showing muscles is the US's strategical plan and it benefits them a lot, while in China we have various strategies too,such as 能而示之不能，which is why the US always demands us to promote military transparency.In addition we are very good at missiles, it is an overall system confrontation,if any, not the navy only.I even guess we can use only missiles in a war due to relatively cheap cost.
And most of all, weapons is not the only factor that matters.By those guys's way of thinking, they will never dare to expect a war like Korean war.Dealing with them too much is just a waste of time.

 

[somsak]

Japan vs China war?
easy prediction,
US win.

Perhaps Japan will become a US province after the war.

 

[Nike]

No one would win in a nuclear exchange since your opponent also has more than 1000 nukes.

The US is being controlled by a group of wealthy businessmen, and they are fighting China for the dominance via a proxy war, but to directly fight China or Russia means everyone would lose at the end.

They are not stupid to risk their life just for some stupid rock on the middle of the East China Sea or South China Sea.

US known to be more stupid and frightening than you ought to be about them, that's why they can hold their super power status today.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Japan vs China war?
easy prediction,
US win.

Perhaps Japan will become a US province after the war.

Japan isn't that powerful to hurt China.

USA would win at the end if they could pull out a Russia vs China show.

 

[Aepsilons]

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

US known to be more stupid and frightening than you ought to be about them, that's why they can hold their super power status today.

lol, we had a war with them during the 1950s and several standoff gestures with them in the following years.

We surely know them more than you do.

 

[Nike]

That's why i made the above mentioned conclusion before, i take my leave then

 

[Genesis]

72 Arleigh Burke class destroyer combined with 22 Ticonderoga class, 11 CVN and a lot of SSN is quite frightening to become your enemies if you ask me

sure, but starting from less than 1% of per capita income of the US when we started to close to being the biggest economy is also "quite frightening" would you say.

However, you become the best by being the best.

Brits ruled the waves long before the US and for much longer, China was the dominate power in Asia for 2000 years, and yet here we are.

Did you seriously thought it be easy to surpass the Brits? Or for the Japanese to do what they did? But they all did it and so will we......again.

 

[j20dragon]

I believe Chinese is not that stupid to joining their MAD invitation as Chinese is at much disadvantage position while US has much presence in Pacific. That's why any conflict between China and Japan will be conducted conventionally as Chinese leader still believe, Nuclear exchange will favor US more than their. But the problem is, Japan-US forces combined still hold advantage in this area, and that's why China can't made any significant progress over their claim in Senkaku.

A different case happened when China confronting Philippine, as their military is a joke and US itself doesn't see Philippine government taking Chinese threat seriously and engulfed themselves into corruption and scandalous incident. So why bother with them, as long as Philippine mainland doesn't to be attacked, US-Philippine mutual alliance doesn't work.

All superpower of the past have one thing in common, war dragged their power down. France, Britain, and even us Ming Dynasty got involved in massive war with Japan that weaken our power. US power will never be the same if they fight with us. I can guarantee you that. However, those with a strong core can bounce back quickly like the Soviet Union. I expect nothing different if we have a war with Japan. Sure we will suffer, but Japan will be completely destroy. I also don't believe in the US bluff. They will never put American live at risk in a nuclear exchange for Japan. At worse, the US can always remove their troop and go home and still dominate the Atlantic/Mediterranean.

 

[Aepsilons]

Too much daydreaming.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

if anyone keep dreaming to defeat China at sea: for me defeat enemy at sea doesn't necessary mean that we have to sink their warships I'm wondering what will happen if douzen Chinese subs hit one of the crack of these tectonic plate and initiate the ocean floor movement, it's that consider the violation of the law or rule of engagement?

 

[Jlaw]

The worse case is Japan going nuke. But before they reach that stage, we probably already destroy them. Let assume they can, then we still come out alive vs Japan. It is just simple.


It just piss me off to see someone mention that they can destroy our beautiful country, China. Are they forgetting we are not the weak Qing anymore? We are a nuclear power with 1st in industrial productivity, 1st in population, top 3 in resource, 2nd in landmass!

It's better they underestimate you than overestimate your capabilities. It's something the new generation of Chinese kids have forgot. The new generation are turning into boasters.

 

[antonius123]

1. Your data is true. But do you think China could put all of J-11 into a battle in East China sea combats and leave other area unprotected by J-11 ? For example Hainan. Let reply frankly.

What make you think they couldn't?
If US could put so many a/c in middle east when attacked Iraq, why can't china do the same thing concentrating her a/c on eastern china?

Could you prove there're more than 10 J-15 anytime on board of Liaoning ? or China has 24 pilots could take off and landing J-15 to Liaoning.

LOL. you are funny

What make you thing Varyag which is almost 60K ton designed to accomodate more than 24 heavy fighter like SU33 cannot accomodate more than 10 J-15?

Liaoning carry J-15 because Russian design of Varyag originally is for Su-33. So China has no way out of thinking that Varyag would come with Su-33 whether they already has Su-33 or not. This is how kindergarten class works.

What make you thing Su-33 could but J15 couldnot? Any evidence? or just your assumption?

I proved most of points about size of Izumo, and correct your wrong data about Izumo, the quantity F-35 in USS Wasp and Izumo with evidence about take off and landing of F35 on USS Wasp.

I repeat "Hyuga again?" three times to remind you to change to Izumo which is a modified and bigger size than Hyuga.

Read above. And why you don't ask a same question "did Liaoning carry few J-15 for demonstration purpose ?"
Do you think coating on Izumo or Hyuga board is the difficulty to Japan, once they could build entire of Izumo by themselves ?

Yes Japan ordered F-35A, so do you confirm they need F-35 ? if a country need F-35 and they are island-nation, they logically need sea F-35 or F-35B.

For your satisfaction, I will remind you that Japan never declare using Izumo or purchased USS Wasp as fixed wing aircraft carriers. So don't expect any official news that Japan buy F-35B until Japan completed purchases of USS Wasp or completed planned quantity of Izumo.

Izumo are there as modification for what you reminded in the article.
Once smaller Hyuga could handle bigger, heavier MV-22 Osprey, it could handle F-35B.
Izumo definitely can do it better with a side-elevator and a big well elevator.
I'm nearly sure that Izumo design come with suitable board to F-35B.

It is obvious that either you dont read the article I post for you as my evidence and my explanation that I repeat many times, nor you dont understand the article/my explanation

It is not about the deck size that the article explain why Hyuga/Izumo could not bring F-35 effectively without huge modification. It is about the design, where both carriers were designed to carry helicopter, not fighter. The article already explain soo obviously that the biggest barrier for the carrier to operate F-35 (STOVL) is the lifter can only enough for helicopter. The other thing the deck need to be modify so that it wont be damaged due to the outburst from the STOVL turbofan.

You cant simply drag Wasp to prove Izumo/Hyuga similar ability due to the similarity of the size. Wrap could be having different design as mentioned above, or has been severely modified. And you also dont know how many Wasp could operate F-35; maybe only 2?

LOL.

By comparing Osprey with F-35 already showing that you dont understand the point of the article that I gave to you

Osprey wont damage the deck, but the outburst of F-35 STOVL turbofan will.
Landing only doesnt mean that Izumo/Hyuga can operate Osprey. Can izumo/hyuga bring the Osprey inside its hull? If the lifter cannot handle smaller aircraft like F-35, then leave alone bigger plane like Osprey

what kind of debate you want? If i said JMSDF has tactical advantage over Chinese since they only need to focusing on how to tackle China threat your answer must be around, China has numerical advantage and we can zerging them with our numerous J-10A-J10B and even H6K and our Navy with ultra plasma shield in Type52D can made their Kongo and Atago class rendered obsolete. And there is no way China need worry about their border with Vietnam and their claims dispute with Philippine or even not worry about border protection with NK and Russia. But Japan still only need to defend themselves in and around their periphery core without need to venture far away. Even Senkaku is much closer to Japan homeland and US base in Guam than Chinese mainland, they had advantage over there.

And even you will denying the facts about Alliance between Japan and US of A in which US considered Japan as the most perfect buffer to protect their homeland from any Eurasian power threats. Then you will say China has allied themselves with Russia, but until now there is no formal and high level dialog or any signing ceremony about alliances between China and Russia. There is no concrete word or credible news about China-Russia alliance, it's just you and Russia just doing cooperation in much higher level than before.

That's why there is nothing much healthy discussion with that kind of attitude

I think you miss their point.

Nobody will deny that the alliance of USA and Japan will be stronger than China (without Russia).

The debate was started when I was telling them that China's military should be more modern (quality) and more in quantity compared to those of Japan. The article seem use the old data about Chinese military as if china most a/c were J-8 or older.

off from your computer , and go to real life, learn more ...

Thats it? no valuable argument you can bring to counter mine?

I believe PDF is the place for those who have inteligence to discuss rather than blind patriotic.

Yeah they care about all of ballistic, incl. DF21, North Korea ballistic ... their Aegis ships are there to intercept them.

Since when aegis ship can put down DF21 with speed 30 mach?

Whether have it or not, J10B can't engage the out of range battlefield

J10B is more than enough to counter F1. J10B can be airborne refueled - means: can engage out of the range of the battlefield, how about F1 - can F1 engage the out of range of the battlefield?
J11B is more than enough to counter F15J. J11B has AESA and more modern avionics than F15J.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

lol i laugh very hard while watching this thread, to a point i was choke with my own saliva....

I did not see any merit on what they say in this post here...lol, most of them did not even know where the bullet is coming out from a gun, yet they talk like they are generals with unlimited experience leading troop...lol Some arent even possible on a Medal of honor or Call of Duty scenario...

I probably say this a thousand time here already, war does not win on number, on technology, this is the exact reaon why pompey lost to a hungry Ceaser army even they are 3 times as big starting in a favorable places and well supplied.

But then the more I talk about real war here i would feel that it will simply go down the drain as sooner or later, someone is going to reply ne with aone nonsense ultranationalist BS that make no sense on war fighting at all....lol My opinion is reserve for those who have a brain and not for those who only like to spill nationalist BS lol

Since you claim to be so good at with your argument about war fighting, how you like my theory of the techtonic bomb, it's tactical feasible? and is that legal and acceptable to consider as convential war?