JAPAN sets out plans to buy amphibious assault ships

[Nike]

South Korea shouldn't worry. Besides, we are conducting joint naval exercises with them this coming week , and contrary to what most people read in anti-Japanese news articles and blog spots, our military inter-operability is 'developing'.

S. Korea, U.S., Japan to conduct naval rescue drills this month

These Amphibious Assault Ships are nothing more than platforms to project our superior fire power onto enemy positions. These platforms will be used outside Japan's maritime domain , in the exercise of Japan's blue water naval capability. It may be used in assisting allied nations in the Persian Gulf, it may be used in the Somali periphery, it may be used in the South Pacific. What matters is that these will be indispensable components of Japan's global strategy.

The WASPs , partnered with our Izumo and Hyuga Class Carriers, Soryu-Class submarines, and plethora of AEGIS destroyers will be centerpieces of the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force.



Yes. You are right. We currently have 2 Hyuga Class Carriers, 1 Izumo Class Carrier (with the 2nd one being constructed). With the plan of having 4 active light carriers (which will be augmented with F-35Bs and Ospreys, as planned).

The acquisition of 2-4 WASPs will be necessary as these will be assigned to the JMSDF North Fleet, JMSDF West Fleet, the JMSDF South Fleet and the JMSDF East Fleet, respectively.

There are also talks in Japan military forums and defense circles that we are on the beginning phases of a Super-Carrier Plan. Most probably, 3-4 will be built to augment our 4 Fleets.

That's way Japan doesn't needed extensive land forces like the China has, just strengthen their Navy and Air arms to keep their adversary at bay. Unlike Singapore who has short of manpower to manned their ships, Japan with more than 140 million population can afford a large Naval forces

 

[Aepsilons]

Japan doesn't really have to spend that much because they are only building up their navy for defense purposes hence the "self-defense force" on all their military agencies. The US can just fill up some holes in case war breaks out. The US doesn't have a choice really. Keep it up our tomodachi neighbor up north!

You're dead on target. Part of the reason for Japan to acquire this is to address our concerns on hostile neighbors. Soon enough, I believe that we will eventually adopt a military policy that will allow us to exercise full prosecution of any global conflict -- in the event that it threatens Japan's and any of our allies' interests.

One of the reasons why we have increased our military responsibilities is to offset the American military's retraction ; especially in the naval assets. The United States is scheduled to retire some 20 cruisers , many of which are stationed / patrolling the Asia-Pacific.

SEAPOWER Magazine Online

In light of such reorganization and re-structuring, there are concerns that there might be instances of piracy, and security concerns affecting the Western Pacific , and the North East Asia corridor, particular areas around the Sea of Japan. To address this, Japan, by national mandate, must take a more assertive and committed role to maintaining regional peace and security in the Pacific. Modesty aside, Japan's Maritime Self Defense Force has the largest and most powerful navy in Asia (not including the United States), with currently 3 light aircraft carriers, and a 4th one being constructed, with one of the world's most awesome ASW aviation fleet, and with a fleet of some 54 Destroyers, not including corvettes and smaller frigates, and our fleet of world class Soryu class submarines. These resources will be utilized to ensure our interests are protected, ensure that the needs of our ASEAN partners are addressed , and most of all, to aid our American allies during their time of organizational restructuring.

Threats will be dealt accordingly.

Great to hear!

You'll be surprised to hear that Mitsubishi Heavy Industries will now , also, be working closely to develop Patriot missile subsystems, and selling these to the United States. Ours is a strategic development.

The Japanese government gave the green light to the export of gyroscopes used to help U.S.-developed Patriot Advanced Capability-2 (PAC-2) missile interceptors tail their targets precisely.

Japan's decision comes after the United States on Monday signed an agreement with Qatar to sell the Gulf state Apache attack helicopters and Patriot and Javelin air-defence systems valued at $11 billion (6.4 billion pounds).

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Japan's top defence contractor, manufactures the gyroscopes.

Japan to supply arms parts to U.S., sensor technology to UK| World| Reuters

 

[Aepsilons]

Be prepared to spend 400-700 billion a year on the military, because we sure as hell will. Especially if the Chinese people demands it, and they will if Japan does these moves.

I doubt it, even the United States cannot maintain a national defense expenditure platform of over 600 billion. Despite their GNP being at $17 Trillion.

You can save the whether it is rational, of course it isn't, but people aren't rational, hence wars.

Of course it is rational. We are purchasing this to augment our 4 Fleets. One per fleet. These will be essential in projection of blue water naval capability in areas of distress and concern. These are Japan's naval and naval-air prerogatives and should not concern China. They are not targeted for your country.

ah, I was hoping to avoid this, just a few battles and set the new world order, instead, if Japan goes through with this, than the arms race will truly begin.

Arms race never really stopped. There will always be a competition amongst friendly and concerned nations. You can bet that these will allow us to have excellent logistical ability to command / control seas outside our maritime domain. These WASPs are strategic tools, and indispensable for any power.

 

[Genesis]

Modesty aside, Japan's Maritime Self Defense Force has the largest and most powerful navy in Asia (not including the United States), with currently 3 light aircraft carriers, and a 4th one being constructed, with one of the world's most awesome ASW aviation fleet, and with a fleet of some 54 Destroyers, not including corvettes and smaller frigates, and our fleet of world class Soryu class submarines. These resources will be utilized to ensure our interests are protected, and most of all, to aid our American allies during their time of organizational restructuring.

Threats will be dealt accordingly. They will be annihilated by the JMSDF Combined Fleet.



You'll be surprised to hear that Mitsubishi Heavy Industries will now , also, be working closely to develop Patriot missile subsystems, and selling these to the United States. Ours is a strategic development.

Note, other than Chinese vessels, that I know by heart, the Japanese ones are from Wiki so if there's any mistakes, please correct. I'm sure you are way more knowledgeable on that.
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So we are not even in the conversation for the largest and best navy now....?

Your ASW and LHD is definitely ahead of China, this I concede, and probably not by a little bit.
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But you don't have 54 destroyers, I count 37, but even if you do have 54, out of those only the 2 Atago, 4 Kongo, maybe 4 Akizuki, and a few future DDGs? that are modern, the rest are not much of a threat.

So currently you have 10 operational modern DDGs. We have 4 active 52C, and 2 more to be added this year, 2 Type 52D ready, 6 more to be ready by end of 2015, 2016, and a further 4 on order.

We also have some older models, but still rather modern like 51, and 51b, etc, that's pretty good, but small, also 4 Russian DDGs which are not that good, but hasn't sank yet.

So since you got bigger ships and 4 more ships, I'll still give the advantage to you.
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I'm not sure where your frigates are, or if you have any. But I assume your smaller vessels are still called Destroyers.

China has 16, 4,000 ton frigates that are more modern than your older models obviously, in terms of ability it's comparable to the Takanami class, though being smaller it is most likely less capable and a less role in the navy. 4 more will be added this year for a total of 20.
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In terms of subs, other than our nuclear subs, which I say is a push, we have about the same number of modern Disel subs more or less. We may have more, but I don't want to speculate on number of Chinese subs, it's too uncertain.

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We have 2 more replenishment ships and they are a bit bigger than two of yours, but you got a massive number of mine sweepers, we have a lot too, but they are older, at least most of them.

We have 13 corvettes? Soon to be 20, and then way more. Those are pretty good, as complements in near sea battles, and just patrol in general.

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So advantage to Japan, DDG, LHD, and ASW

tie are subs.

Chinese advantage are: frigates. corvettes, replenishment ships, also two hospital ship. 6 tracking ship. But we have 3 active LPD.

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So while I still give the edge to Japan at this point, especially the anti sub and LHD, but the difference is certainly nto big enough to know for certain who would win today.

For future, let's leave that for the future.

 

[Aepsilons]

But you don't have 54 destroyers, I count 37, but even if you do have 54, out of those only the 2 Atago, 4 Kongo, maybe 4 Akizuki, and a few future DDGs? that are modern, the rest are not much of a threat.

We have 54, wikipedia does not reflect an accurate portrayal of our surface fleet inventory. In addition, you may not have heard, but we have recently passed a resolution in military acquisition this past december -- worth $240 BILLION.

Japan puts aside $240 billion for defence budget amid conflict with China - Tokyo Times

Included in this will be 2 more Kongo-class and 2-3 Atago Class DDGs.

In terms of subs, other than our nuclear subs, which I say is a push, we have about the same number of modern Disel subs more or less. We may have more, but I don't want to speculate on number of Chinese subs, it's too uncertain.

Friend, in terms of submarine warfare, we have over 140 ASW aviation craft that can effectively neutralize subs around our waters. Hence any sub force that were to enter into our maritime domain would be suspect. In fact, we have the largest ASW force in the world.

So while I still give the edge to Japan at this point, especially the anti sub and LHD, but the difference is certainly nto big enough to know for certain who would win today.

I would like to evade in turning this thread into a Japan vs China naval discussion. I am sure, no doubt, that the Chinese have keen interest to develop their surface capability. That said, I want to only focus on Japanese naval developments , and I don't want to delve into hypothetical conflict scenarios between Japan and China because that is not constructive. I dare say.


Thanks.

 

[Azeri440]

ah, I was hoping to avoid this, just a few battles and set the new world order, instead, if Japan goes through with this, than the arms race will truly begin.

Be prepared to spend 400-700 billion a year on the military, because we sure as hell will. Especially if the Chinese people demands it, and they will if Japan does these moves.

You can save the whether it is rational, of course it isn't, but people aren't rational, hence wars.


Japan is really not leaving the Chinese leadership a lot of options. If anything the cold war proved is that smaller economy can never defeat huge economies in a arms race. A fool's errand.

uhmm its the result of your threats and military build up
hence they gotta build up too

go ahead spend what you want
keep in mind Japan only spends 1% of GDP and only has 200k+ active troops

 

[Genesis]

We have 54, wikipedia does not reflect an accurate portrayal of our surface fleet inventory. In addition, you may not have heard, but we have recently passed a resolution in military acquisition this past december -- worth $240 BILLION.

Japan puts aside $240 billion for defence budget amid conflict with China - Tokyo Times

Included in this will be 2 more Kongo-class and 2-3 Atago Class DDGs.

I understand, I don't like to do vs threads, but it's more of a we are at least in the conversation today.

But one thing I don't understand about this 240 billion, is it on top of the 50 billion a year? Or is it just the budget?

Cause it said previous 5 years was 23 trillion yen, so it already existed, but to a slightly lesser amount.

What's the deal here.


And I purposely didn't include future plans, I'm sure if you follow Chinese developments you know why.

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Also by not rational, I mean Chinese or anybody really. You building shouldn't result in we building, and certainly not war. But as I said people are not rational.

It should be you do your thing and we do our thing.

 

[Aepsilons]

But one thing I don't understand about this 240 billion, is it on top of the 50 billion a year? Or is it just the budget?

Our annual defense expenditure is at a minimum .9% of our GNP. It stands at $60 Billion per annum. This additional $240 Billion is on military hardware purchases, and is not included in our defense expenditure.

Thanks for respecting and understanding my request, my friend.

 

[Genesis]

Our annual defense expenditure is at a minimum .9% of our GNP. It stands at $60 Billion per annum. This additional $240 Billion is on military hardware purchases, and is not included in our defense expenditure.

Thanks for respecting and understanding my request, my friend.

I don't like to talk budgets anymore cause it's different from every source, I don't know how that's possible, since it's a precise number announced, but whatever.

So Japan with this budget is spending 100 billion a year more or less from the last 5 years and the next 5 years?

edit

The Cabinet of hawkish Prime Minister Shinzo Abe agreed to spend 24.7 trillion yen ($240 billion) between 2014 and 2019 in a strategic shift toward the south and west of the country—a 5-percent boost to the military budget over five years.

Read more: Japan set to buy $240B worth of hi-tech weapons | Inquirer News
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook


Especially here, where it says 5% increase to boost budget over 5 years, it seems like it just means Japan will spend a further 5 percent each year, rather than setting this money aside.

Or lost in translation?

 

[Aepsilons]

I don't like to talk budgets anymore cause it's different from every source, I don't know how that's possible, since it's a precise number announced, but whatever.

We approved military hardware acquisition worth $240 Billion. This number is not including our current defense expenditure.

And in regards to our defense expenditure, prior to the re-interpretation of Article 9, there was a cap on military expenditure at 3%, I believe that this cap may have been removed during the re-interpretation of Article 9. So, technically speaking, we could raise our Defense Budget to $180 Billion next year.

I don't like to talk budgets anymore cause it's different from every source, I don't know how that's possible, since it's a precise number announced, but whatever.

So Japan with this budget is spending 100 billion a year more or less from the last 5 years and the next 5 years?

edit

The Cabinet of hawkish Prime Minister Shinzo Abe agreed to spend 24.7 trillion yen ($240 billion) between 2014 and 2019 in a strategic shift toward the south and west of the country—a 5-percent boost to the military budget over five years.

Read more: Japan set to buy $240B worth of hi-tech weapons | Inquirer News
Follow us: @inquirerdotnet on Twitter | inquirerdotnet on Facebook


Especially here, where it says 5% increase to boost budget over 5 years, it seems like it just means Japan will spend a further 5 percent each year, rather than setting this money aside.

Or lost in translation?

"Under the plan, Japan would spend $240 billion over the next five years on new equipment for the military to include 17 MV-22 Ospreys, 28 F-35 fighters, three unarmed Global Hawk drones and 52 amphibious troop carriers to shore up the offensive capability of its Self-Defense Forces.

If fully implemented, the Japanese strategy would provide a major boost for Bell Boeing, maker of the Ospreys, and Lockheed Martin’s F-35 program. Both firms have struggled to attract interest from foreign buyers in their aircraft."

Retrieved from:

Ospreys and F-35s on Japan's $240B Shopping List | DoD Buzz

 

[Genesis]

We approved military hardware acquisition worth $240 Billion. This number is not including our current defense expenditure.

And in regards to our defense expenditure, prior to the re-interpretation of Article 9, there was a cap on military expenditure at 3%, I believe that this cap may have been removed during the re-interpretation of Article 9. So, technically speaking, we could raise our Defense Budget to $180 Billion next year.



"Under the plan, Japan would spend $240 billion over the next five years on new equipment for the military to include 17 MV-22 Ospreys, 28 F-35 fighters, three unarmed Global Hawk drones and 52 amphibious troop carriers to shore up the offensive capability of its Self-Defense Forces.

If fully implemented, the Japanese strategy would provide a major boost for Bell Boeing, maker of the Ospreys, and Lockheed Martin’s F-35 program. Both firms have struggled to attract interest from foreign buyers in their aircraft."

Retrieved from:

Ospreys and F-35s on Japan's $240B Shopping List | DoD Buzz

If you say it is, I'll take your word for it, though for that kinda cash, I was expecting more, but then again American equipments are expensive.


Well, let's not talk technical, being the economy that is about double your size and by the end of 2019, the year your budget ends, we should be around American size.

So if raised to your proposed percentage, ours would be at 340 billion today.

but there's tons of places that need money, so let's not go crazy, it's not like a real war will happen anytime soon.




Edit:

That's quite an increase 100%+ increase in fact, far more aggressive than China's 12. Japan is now effectively spending 2%+ as well, equal to China. not bad.

 

[Aepsilons]

@Genesis

I think that China has much greater concerns than us. Japan is blessed to be an island nation, since we do not share a land border , which would have put greater pressures on grand fources' equipment(s). China shares a land territory with Russia, India, Pakistan, Vietnam, North Korea, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan. So, naturally, it requires an investiture in a large standing army.

That said, your country has to do what it must. And due to these requisites, priority will always be on ground forces.

If you say it is, I'll take your word for it, though for that kinda cash, I was expecting more, but then again American equipments are expensive.

Yes, it is quite the price. But it is necessary for our needs to update and modernize some of our equipments. We are also expecting to retire some of our older air units , and thus necessitates this purchase. It is a conservative purchase, in my opinion.

 

[Jlaw]

I am impressed of your navy. our navy is just a shadow of yours.

Really? But you Viets claim your navy can destroy China's fake navy in one day?

 

[terranMarine]

Really? But you Viets claim your navy can destroy China's fake navy in one day?

Vietcongs getting humble or realistic?

 

[Jlaw]

Vietcongs getting humble or realistic?

@Kiss_of_the_Dragon scared the viets last time with his post. Now all of a sudden the 敗家仔became just a bit "realistic" for the time being.