Japan seeks defence ties with Asean

[PITA]

China current leaders will gain Nothing but new Tienanmen revolt plus losing Taiwan forever from helping US against VN-Russia.

Help VN-Russia against US, corrupted China leaders can take back TW, and get lots of money from VN-Russia,too.

So, you know which side is better to chose for Mr.Xi now, right

If China were to help a Vietnamese/Russian alliance, China would be losing one of their biggest trading partners and wouldn't exactly be the best thing for the economy. Also, they owe China quite a lot of money. Europe may also be lost too since they're allied with America. Why would China want to risk those things for that. Also, China has said many times that the best way to unify with Taiwan is to do it peacefully, build economic ties...etc. Your scenario doesn't really solve that problem for us. The last thing the mainland wants is to run in and attack Taiwan, the people would resist and there would be a "Tiananmen revolt" anyways with the world watching.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

China current leaders will gain Nothing but new Tienanmen revolt plus losing Taiwan forever from helping US against VN-Russia.

Help VN-Russia against US, corrupted China leaders can take back TW, and get lots of money from VN-Russia,too.

So, you know which side is better to chose for Mr.Xi now, right

To counter against USA is a deal to be set between China and Russia.

Vietnam is just a pawn, so you guys should act like a pawn, not like a boss.

 

[visom]

It's not 20 years ago, cold war is over for 20 years, no one want directly have war with US on the earth, including Russia and China, no one want have directly war with Russia or China nere 1000KM away from Russia or China, including US.

I am puzzled that why VN always want war with big countries such as US, China; Do anyone realy think that US or China failed at VN? War is at the land of VN, big countries think that the war is not worth go on then over the war, nothing more affect for US and China but a disaster for VN, only dealed the scrapping of ammunition, did some combat exercises, a group of generals promoted and left some VN widow. Did VN attack US or China land at war? VN should have the world view. VN should learn from Israel，Singapore，Jordan

Only people who want war are keyboard warriors with an inferiority complex and have something to prove; unfortunately, there are too many of those people here on defense.pk.

 

[jhungary]

I am curious why is the navy even mentioned. Vietnam and China share a land border after all.

Well, land border cannot do anything in a seaborne skimishes. He is talking about blockading the whole SCS. Will China invade Vietnam after the blockade (It's totally legal to do so anyway) would be another fator, bt in this scenario, focus only on naval engagment.

Something doesn't make sense here. I'm assuming one of those dots are HCM city. At least it seems like the general area. If that's the case, Macau is 1500 km away. A Scub B, as jhungry, indicated has a range of 700 km. Even Hainan from HCM city is 800 km. Don't take my word for it, google it yourself.

Distance Calculator - How far is it from Macau – Macau...

Am I missing something here?

Because he is talking crap

And do anybody reckon everytime Niceguy got ban, Viva Viet will become active. Strange wasn't it??

Dude, I said " we can't fight against US-China combine, so we have to make friend with one and fight with another", so don't drag China in when VN-Russia start a new war with you. We won't make same mistake like in 1979 when China colluded with US to attack VN.

When we start a new war with you, then we will make friend with China again, VN-Russia will bribe corrupted leader Xi and blah blah that : " VN-China are golden Communist brothers , we will help big Brother China to take back Taiwan.. etc...", then, US will have No chance to station its troops near Taiwan anymore . DOn't ask me why we can make friend with China again, it's just like you ask me why VN is US friend now even when VN always willing to help Russia to attack ur Guam. Your leader Obama is a big corrupted one like Mr.Xi too ..

So US fleet can't attack VN from anywhere. even you find somewhere to station your troops to attack VN, you still will be defeat in long hard war again. Fighting against VN just like playing Marathon game, it's not abt how fast but how Long u can run. You think your loser troop can fight a 20 years war with VN again ??

Dude, you are talking about blockading SCS and "Crumble the Chinese Economy in 3 weeks"

Tell me, how you try to Crumble the economy of China in 3 weeks while asking them to help fight the US??

I literally fall off my arse and landed in my wooden floorboard .

This is your word not mine.

Ok, let's say that you "Sway" the Chinese to such a suicide position. Without the Chinese on the topic, US Pacific Fleet alone could have defeated the Russian Navy come everywhere they might. If we can't we'll call for help, the Pacific fleet are only 1/3 ot half of what we got, We can call the Atlantic Fleet, we can call up the US coast guard which is considered a bigger organisation than the People's Vietnam Army, Navy itself. And we can call the Singaporean Which host the US Naval Losgistic Pacigic command, also we can call the Philippine and Japan and South Korea. Swaying allied is not the patent of Vietnam. As least our allied sounded more possible than your so called VN-Russian-Chinese Allied Power.

Russia is not stupid, they will not dedicate 100% to secure something that illegal to start with and do not contribute to them anyway (Russian Do not share the SCS and most of their logistic done by the Northern Route anyway) Even if they are stupid enough to indulge your Vietnamese Dream, it would only be a small scale. As i said, Blockading a EEZ is violating International Law, unless Russian want to totally lose face, they will not even consider doing something like that.

Dude, if they have to choose between India and Vietnam. They would have gone for India 100% anyday, no question asked. And blocking SCS also damage Indian economy, in exchange for what? A tiny remote island called Guam which have nothing but some specuaular beaches and water front resort??

The first mine you guy laid, would be the last mine you guys laid.

Stop dreaming dude

Only people who want war are keyboard warriors with an inferiority complex and have something to prove; unfortunately, there are too many of those people here on defense.pk.

True. But that does not seems to deter people in this forum to have a wet dream on something they don't have, something they WON'T have.

If China were to help a Vietnamese/Russian alliance, China would be losing one of their biggest trading partners and wouldn't exactly be the best thing for the economy. Also, they owe China quite a lot of money. Europe may also be lost too since they're allied with America. Why would China want to risk those things for that. Also, China has said many times that the best way to unify with Taiwan is to do it peacefully, build economic ties...etc. Your scenario doesn't really solve that problem for us. The last thing the mainland wants is to run in and attack Taiwan, the people would resist and there would be a "Tiananmen revolt" anyways with the world watching.

Again, he is just listing one of his wet dream on his parallel universe. He still remain in the 70s where all communist brother should united and fight the power. It's probably very echoing in the 70s but no such things like this anymore.

In his dream, he still think Vietnam is untouchable and if Vietnam win the SCS on behalf of China and Russia against those western puppet, they will let the Chinese share their victory....

 

[Viet]

Actually the likelyhood of an armed confrontation of China-Japan is much higher than of China-Vietnam. So everybody can calm down and trink coffee.




Chinese president vows to boost ties with Vietnam - People's Daily Online

 

[Viet]

...
Overall Ship Strength of Vietnam Navy

Vietnam People's Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aircraft Carrier - 0
Heavy Cruiser - 0
Cruiser - 0
Destroyer - 0
Ballistic Submarine - 0
Nuclear Attack submarine - 0
Diesel Attack Submarine - 6
Frigate - 7
Corvette - 40

Other combat support ship - 16

No question, VN navy needs urgently more mighty vessels, such as destroyers and attack submarines. Unfortunately unlike others Vietnam´s resources (e.i. money) are limited. Sure, VN will see more ships but a slow rate.

 

[jhungary]

No question, VN navy needs urgently more mighty vessels, such as destroyers and attack submarines. Unfortunately unlike others Vietnam´s resources (e.i. money) are limited. Sure, VN will see more ships but a slow rate.

Personally, i don't want war in SCS. After stuff i have seen in iraq and afghanistan. I think i have seen enough war for more than 1 lifetime. Problem is, i hate people who talk about war as if it's no big deal. People watch TV, see movie and think war are a simple thing, and it's the only way you can do to feel strong. Then i can tell you this, this is not gonna make you feel anything. But a sense of waste. I spend more than 2 years to get back on track, and i still have nightmare every now and then, and i thought about stuff that i do and stuff that i did not do and how it may have been affected the outcome. Trust me, not that the killing will get you in wars, but the stuff happened when you are clam and have time to think about it.

I kind of understand why Chinese member brag about war here. But Vietnamese?? Dude, you lot have seen 3 wars in less than 50 year, ain't that already enough??

Don't get me wrong, if trouble come find you, you needed to be prepared. but what's the point if you go look for trouble??

And yeah, about the ship, more destroyer is a must but i guess as best vietnamese need is a potent force. Otherwise it will trigger an arms race in South Asia and Vietnam have niether manpower nor resource to sustain a arms race.....THat will not be good then

 

[Soryu]

Personally, i don't want war in SCS. After stuff i have seen in iraq and afghanistan. I think i have seen enough war for more than 1 lifetime. Problem is, i hate people who talk about war as if it's no big deal. People watch TV, see movie and think war are a simple thing, and it's the only way you can do to feel strong. Then i can tell you this, this is not gonna make you feel anything. But a sense of waste. I spend more than 2 years to get back on track, and i still have nightmare every now and then, and i thought about stuff that i do and stuff that i did not do and how it may have been affected the outcome. Trust me, not that the killing will get you in wars, but the stuff happened when you are clam and have time to think about it.

I kind of understand why Chinese member brag about war here. But Vietnamese?? Dude, you lot have seen 3 wars in less than 50 year, ain't that already enough??

Don't get me wrong, if trouble come find you, you needed to be prepared. but what's the point if you go look for trouble??

And yeah, about the ship, more destroyer is a must but i guess as best vietnamese need is a potent force. Otherwise it will trigger an arms race in South Asia and Vietnam have niether manpower nor resource to sustain a arms race.....THat will not be good then

Did you ever heard this: "If you want the peace, let prepare for the war"

How can stop some hawk when you don't have any spear or shield!?

 

[Sanchez]

Viet navy has a few tens of fishing boats and yet they are yelling to cut the sea lanes of South China Sea. US may need two days and PLA may need just a week to change your navy to a land based army. For big mouthed Viets you have to be rational to bring up something to the forum, otherwise you are making Vietnamese looking stupid.

 

[john.mccainn]

But china can't facing with Taiwan, fake products made in china is useless. Imported toys from Russia is OK.

Fact number 1
For Industrial and daily product you so called fake and useless apparently were used by United Stated Of Freedom America and around the wold.
if you don't believe it ask wallmart.
and if you still don't believe it please my dear check you mouse,keyboard,and everything in your house there must be something called"made in china" thing.

Fact number 2
For military product you call so useless and fake, apparently the Sudan,Iraq,Bangladesh,Pakistan,Indonesia,Vietnam and bloody heck Syrian rebel were happy to use it.
China named fifth-largest arms exporter - The Japan Times

Fact number 3
for taiwan problem please ask Taiwanese whose is they prefer china or Vietnam

Fact number 4
either you with or against us

 

[PITA]

Did you ever heard this: "If you want the peace, let prepare for the war"

How can stop some hawk when you don't have any spear or shield!?

What good is having a spear and shield if one doesn't have the energy to hold it up? That's, what I believe, jhungry was alluding to.

In the game of nations, there are smaller countries and there are bigger countries. That's just an unfair fact that nobody on this board can change. If country A deploys arms against country B, country B can stand down, match, or up the stakes. Eventually, there will be too much risk for one side to continue. It's not hard to see how this game will be played out in this case. One country can play this game all day, the other can't. Therefore, a country can lose on a battlefield or lose politically and economically, à la North Korea. Either way achieves the same result and that is a weakening of the opponent.

My hope is that a diplomatic solution can be reached because, god help us, if a day comes when there is a way (likely), millions will suffer again. Pick any war and it's ultimately the civilian population that suffers the most and that has always been an undeniable constant and universal truth.

 

[PITA]

No question, VN navy needs urgently more mighty vessels, such as destroyers and attack submarines. Unfortunately unlike others Vietnam´s resources (e.i. money) are limited. Sure, VN will see more ships but a slow rate.

I'm not sure I would agree. Vietnam and China share a border together. It may be strategically important for her to make sure enemies are kept far away or kept in line. Also, if she does decide to engage in a war, she may pick someone to be made an example of without wanting to gamble too much. These would not be a first.

I'm hoping it'll never come to that but, unfortunately, history seems to favor the belligerent.

 

[Soryu]

What good is having a spear and shield if one doesn't have the energy to hold it up? That's, what I believe, jhungry was alluding to.

In the game of nations, there are smaller countries and there are bigger countries. That's just an unfair fact that nobody on this board can change. If country A deploys arms against country B, country B can stand down, match, or up the stakes. Eventually, there will be too much risk for one side to continue. It's not hard to see how this game will be played out in this case. One country can play this game all day, the other can't. Therefore, a country can lose on a battlefield or lose politically and economically, à la North Korea. Either way achieves the same result and that is a weakening of the opponent.

My hope is that a diplomatic solution can be reached because, god help us, if a day comes when there is a way (likely), millions will suffer again. Pick any war and it's ultimately the civilian population that suffers the most and that has always been an undeniable constant and universal truth.

We're not stand on same point to view it, so it's difference.

China military power developed faster and bigger, it's nomarl in chinese view. So same in our case.

Let see in SCS, Philippine losed in Scarborough because they don't hold enough power.

When Vietnam and China re-establish relationship in 1992, until now, Vietnam did not lost any Island more, though both side encounter each other many time in silence.
In year 2000s, Philippine want shake hand with China and want China share for her a piece of SCS, and don't say anything with us, ASEAN. But they wrong, and they losed, because they deal with China when they don't hold enough power.

When pigeons in China say: "let act peace", hawks will ask some issue:" why did do that when they can not damage us anything, and we can take all territory in SCS (over 80%) in easy", "Why did we need when we build up powerful military?"

When you don't hold any card, how can you deal with game!?

 

[PITA]

We're not stand on same point to view it, so it's difference.

China military power developed faster and bigger, it's nomarl in chinese view. So same in our case.

Let see in SCS, Philippine losed in Scarborough because they don't hold enough power.

When Vietnam and China re-establish relationship in 1992, until now, Vietnam did not lost any Island more, though both side encounter each other many time in silence.
In year 2000s, Philippine want shake hand with China and want China share for her a piece of SCS, and don't say anything with us, ASEAN. But they wrong, and they losed, because they deal with China when they don't hold enough power.

When pigeons in China say: "let act peace", hawks will ask some issue:" why did do that when they can not damage us anything, and we can take all territory in SCS (over 80%) in easy", "Why did we need when we build up powerful military?"

When you don't hold any card, how can you deal with game!?

Then there isn't anything to talk about and just wait for the day to come.

 

[Soryu]

Then there isn't anything to talk about and just wait for the day to come.

Fine, everything should be like that here.
But in diplomatic section, everything will continue, and just wait for event.