Japan seeks defence ties with Asean

[Viet]

I'm not twisting any fact I just pointed at it. I merely pointed at Viet nonsensical comment:

LOL Mr clueless. If I say Vietnam can make alliance with this or that country, it does mean two things: we can do but may not do. As gradudate from Politics, you should know it is just part of a poker game. As we are currently negotiating with China over the SC sea, it is always good to some jokers in the hand.

Back in the 1960´s the Chinese never imagined that Vietnam rejected their demand to break up the relationship with the Soviet Union. They were very angry. Moreover Vietnam and Soviets signed a alliance pact.

As you know there's still no confirmation from any of these country that an alliance with Japan is imminent. There maybe some news about it, but its still nothing concrete.

Not correct. Vietnamese government supports Japan.

& Even if the country manages to strike an "alliance" its still too underpowered compared to China.

I don´t think so. If things gets out of control in the SCS dispute, Vietnam will rethink its position and allow America and Japan to station its army and naval ships on its sol.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

LOL Mr clueless. If I say Vietnam can make alliance with this or that country, it does mean two things: we can do but may not do. As gradudate from Politics, you should know it is just part of a poker game. As we are currently negotiating with China over the SC sea, it is always good to some jokers in the hand.

Back in the 1960´s the Chinese never imagined that Vietnam rejected their demand to break up the relationship with the Soviet Union. They were very angry. Moreover Vietnam and Soviets signed a alliance pact.

There's still nothing on the Vietnamese side that said that an alliances with Japan is imminent or in any other ASEAN country. A military alliance with Japan will just frustrate Beijing & make negotiating for the SCS even more difficult.

The Cold War is over & the Soviet Union is dead. Why bring a history lesson into this?

Not correct. Vietnamese government supports Japan.

.... What is that even mean?

sup·port (s-pôrt, -prt)
tr.v. sup·port·ed, sup·port·ing, sup·ports
1. To bear the weight of, especially from below.
2. To hold in position so as to keep from falling, sinking, or slipping.
3. To be capable of bearing; withstand
4. To keep from weakening or failing; strengthen
5. To provide for or maintain, by supplying with money or necessities.
6. To furnish corroborating evidence for
7.
a. To aid the cause, policy, or interests of
b. To argue in favor of
8. To endure; tolerate
9. To act in a secondary or subordinate role to (a leading performer).
n.
1.
a. The act of supporting.
b. The state of being supported.
2. One that supports.
3. Maintenance, as of a family, with the necessities of life.

I don´t think so. If things gets out of control in the SCS dispute, Vietnam will rethink its position and allow America and Japan to station its army and naval ships on its sol.

Then its just defeat the purpose and it will just confirm what Jhungary has posted:

However, if you bring in Japan, South Korea or Australia/New Zeland, which all 3 of those have a defence pact with the USA. It will be definitely a game changer. But the trade off is, that will not be ASEAN anymore as US start influence the show. Which is a good way to spike China but not a good way for regional politic.

 

[Soryu]

LOL Mr clueless. If I say Vietnam can make alliance with this or that country, it does mean two things: we can do but may not do. As gradudate from Politics, you should know it is just part of a poker game. As we are currently negotiating with China over the SC sea, it is always good to some jokers in the hand.

Back in the 1960´s the Chinese never imagined that Vietnam rejected their demand to break up the relationship with the Soviet Union. They were very angry. Moreover Vietnam and Soviets signed a alliance pact.

Not correct. Vietnamese government supports Japan.

I don´t think so. If things gets out of control in the SCS dispute, Vietnam will rethink its position and allow America and Japan to station its army and naval ships on its sol.

We did have alliances with Soviet because China push us on corner. At first, VN want be neutral like Yugoslavia, but China want control us for their desire, and after that is history.

Better way VNese government doing was allow forgein army and navy visit and gain resupply, support from us like a services. VN joint and invite many side cooperate in many forum for deverlope and hold good relationships .

If China return like in past (1979), it mean their internal affairs became very terrible situation. But Cold war gone now, the world would not let China turn out like past.

 

[visom]

I'm not twisting any fact I just pointed at it. I merely pointed at Viet nonsensical comment:



As you know there's still no confirmation from any of these country that an alliance with Japan is imminent. There maybe some news about it, but its still nothing concrete.

& Even if the country manages to strike an "alliance" its still too underpowered compared to China.



Why thank you I've been a fan since the 1st. Have you watched the new SR4 trailer?

I'm not saying you're twisting any facts I'm saying what you learn from the class might not match up with what other country teaches in political science lol.

Yeah I just watched the trailer, it looks like the matrix+avengers+tron mixed together. Sorry no more off topicness from me

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

I'm not saying you're twisting any facts I'm saying what you learn from the class might not match up with what other country teaches in political science lol.

Yeah I just watched the trailer, it looks like the matrix+avengers+tron mixed together. Sorry no more off topicness from me

I enjoy the 3rd one its just not as long as I hope for & the city is not as expansive as Stillwater

 

[Sanchez]

Everyone thinks their country got a dik to deal with Chinese, hh...reality check?

 

[tranquilium]

do you really think Japan will command Asean Nato??whats USA for??? do you really think Japan is calling shots??read my first reply again.and even if thats not enough for you,read what your own country is saying..

U.S. building 'Asian NATO' to encircle China - China.org.cn

and read this...

Southeast Asia: U.S. Completing Asian NATO To Confront China | Global Research

Is this before or after USA put a rather large knife in the ASEAN's back in 97's southeast financial crisis?
Here is the thing. Obama keeps yammering about "returning" to East Asia. Return implies that USA presence was here before, but had to leave. Do you know why USA have to leave?
Some history lesson, US used to have a very heavy presence in Southeast Asia. For example, Philippine used to be an American colony. They were, in fact, allies of USA during Korean war and was one of the countries that sent soldiers to South Korea. Thailand, for example, was another country that was on US' side and sent soldier to Korean war. Thailand used to be protected by US under a military treaty.
Now, the question is, if USA used to have all these influences, why do they have to "return"? The answer is, because they lost these influence due to bad blood with ASEAN countries. For example, when Vietnam attacked Thailand in the 80s, US deliberately ignored their treaty and essentially left Thailand to rot. Nowadays, the majority of military hardware used by Thailand comes from China.
In 97, US systemically decimated the economy of the entire Southeast Asia region. The chaos and economical difficulties are the direct result of USA financial attacks. Some of you are too young to remember the 90s, but for those who are old enough to remember, prior to 97, Southeast Asia was the emerging economic forces of the world. The 97 attack pretty much destroyed the dream of several generations of Southeast Asians.
And now you are expecting ASEAN to magically unite behind US and go against the sole reason of their economic recovery? Do you assume southeast Asians are idiots?
Look, what China or US media has to say is their own business. Of course, they are going to paint each other in a negative light. They are rivals and on par with each other. ASEAN countries are neither China nor US. They have their own priorities and those priorities do not involve getting squashed between two major world powers.

 

[Luffy 500]

The kind of alliance Japan want to make will become clear if they amend their pacifist constitution. I hingly doubt whether whole of asean would join Japan but philipins and vietnam most likely will. And that allaince will also have US involvement along with maybe AUS.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

We did have alliances with Soviet because China push us on corner. At first, VN want be neutral like Yugoslavia, but China want control us for their desire, and after that is history.

Better way VNese government doing was allow forgein army and navy visit and gain resupply, support from us like a services. VN joint and invite many side cooperate in many forum for deverlope and hold good relationships .

If China return like in past (1979), it mean their internal affairs became very terrible situation. But Cold war gone now, the world would not let China turn out like past.

No, China did not push you into the corner, you were the first who betrayed China in order to please your Soviet master.

China always wanted you to remain NEUTRAL, but you can't.

North Korea did not openly betray us because their country has not been unified, they still need us, but you are a different case.

Thus CPC have committed a terrible mistake by helping your kind to push into unification.

 

[Zero_wing]

Is this before or after USA put a rather large knife in the ASEAN's back in 97's southeast financial crisis?
Here is the thing. Obama keeps yammering about "returning" to East Asia. Return implies that USA presence was here before, but had to leave. Do you know why USA have to leave?
Some history lesson, US used to have a very heavy presence in Southeast Asia. For example, Philippine used to be an American colony. They were, in fact, allies of USA during Korean war and was one of the countries that sent soldiers to South Korea. Thailand, for example, was another country that was on US' side and sent soldier to Korean war. Thailand used to be protected by US under a military treaty.
Now, the question is, if USA used to have all these influences, why do they have to "return"? The answer is, because they lost these influence due to bad blood with ASEAN countries. For example, when Vietnam attacked Thailand in the 80s, US deliberately ignored their treaty and essentially left Thailand to rot. Nowadays, the majority of military hardware used by Thailand comes from China.
In 97, US systemically decimated the economy of the entire Southeast Asia region. The chaos and economical difficulties are the direct result of USA financial attacks. Some of you are too young to remember the 90s, but for those who are old enough to remember, prior to 97, Southeast Asia was the emerging economic forces of the world. The 97 attack pretty much destroyed the dream of several generations of Southeast Asians.
And now you are expecting ASEAN to magically unite behind US and go against the sole reason of their economic recovery? Do you assume southeast Asians are idiots?
Look, what China or US media has to say is their own business. Of course, they are going to paint each other in a negative light. They are rivals and on par with each other. ASEAN countries are neither China nor US. They have their own priorities and those priorities do not involve getting squashed between two major world powers.

This new a chinese with brains anyway its a good analysis one problem china has been over aggressive lately so asking for may members for this an ASEAN defense bloc (which i doubt will happen due to a large presents of Neutralist peace advocate namely Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia, Myanmar and Brunei which advocates for peaceful resolution of the issue under International law and the Chinese client state Cambodia and nothing from Laos as for the US both Japan and the Philippines (that's the right spelling kids) as long as we have the MDT or defense treaty American has no choice but to help in the Defense of said Countries and that will not take effect if both the Philippines and Japan attack china (which is unlikely to happen) so its more likely the concern countries who will form a defense bloc out of ASEAN and non ASEAN countries namely Australia and US along with Vietnam for mutual defense but this Defense thing with ASEAN is just to open markets for Arms nothing more there will be no united bloc on defense or any untied bloc for anything for ASEAN because the organization is just a business market and talk box no real unity at all.

 

[Fsjal]

If Japan wants to join for trade, then ASEAN will not be called ASEAN. If it is for defense purpose, then the purpose of ASEAN is gone. Also, the alliance would be more of a puppet for US domination.

 

[EastSea]

No, China did not push you into the corner, you were the first who betrayed China in order to please your Soviet master.

China always wanted you to remain NEUTRAL, but you can't.

North Korea did not openly betray us because their country has not been unified, they still need us, but you are a different case.

Thus CPC have committed a terrible mistake by helping your kind to push into unification.

China was loser when applied dirty policy "divide to rule" in Vietnam 1954 when shaked hands with France to divide Vietnam. North Korea has been known true face of China soon.

 

[Viet]

There's still nothing on the Vietnamese side that said that an alliances with Japan is imminent or in any other ASEAN country. A military alliance with Japan will just frustrate Beijing & make negotiating for the SCS even more difficult.

VN´s government clearly says it supports the idea of strengthening ASEAN-Japan defence cooperation. Not military alliance with Japan, that ´s a different thing.

The Cold War is over & the Soviet Union is dead. Why bring a history lesson into this?

History can repeat. At present Vietnam does not join any miliary alliance. But that can be changed quickly if China pushes us into the corner, like in the 1960´s.

.... What is that even mean?

sup·port (s-pôrt, -prt)
tr.v. sup·port·ed, sup·port·ing, sup·ports
1. To bear the weight of, especially from below.
2. To hold in position so as to keep from falling, sinking, or slipping.
3. To be capable of bearing; withstand
4...

Well, this cooperation thing can be like a group of men sitting together and have some fun.

Soft version:
If we gather in Japan, than we will enjoy a cup of tea, have sushi and are entertained by geisha. If in Vietnam, we will trink coffee, eat the country national dish "pho", and entertained by singing girls in long dress (Ao Dai).

Hardcore version:
We will play some war games in the SC sea and Sea of Japan.

Then its just defeat the purpose and it will just confirm what Jhungary has posted:

Not correct. It is helpfull if small nations are united against a big bully.

 

[Soryu]

The kind of alliance Japan want to make will become clear if they amend their pacifist constitution. I hingly doubt whether whole of asean would join Japan but philipins and vietnam most likely will. And that allaince will also have US involvement along with maybe AUS.

_ It's view from pro-China like you, but the real not like that. Vietnam consider ASEAN and other forum are good choice for cooperate and solve issue of region.
_ Stand between big countrys and dreaming that can gain benefits from alliance with them and not pay any price is stupid, and will be pawn for them.

No, China did not push you into the corner, you were the first who betrayed China in order to please your Soviet master.

China always wanted you to remain NEUTRAL, but you can't.

North Korea did not openly betray us because their country has not been unified, they still need us, but you are a different case.

Thus CPC have committed a terrible mistake by helping your kind to push into unification.

LOL... You give a bullshjt again, Mr. meow meow.

_ So follow your argument, it like this: "If you don't want betray China, you must keep your nation divided and under control from China" <<< How good China was.

_ So what did Vietnam does to betrayed China? Follow the timeline:

+ 1954, China joined Geneva conference, and made Vietnam stop and accept divided at 17th parallel.
+ 1968-1970, Vietnam refuse to joined with China against Soviet Union, want to be neutral.
+ 1972, Mao Zedong shaked hand with Richard Nixon. And at December - 1972 USA bombing nearly all North Vietnam by B-52. China have no complain anything.
+ 1974, at one year before Vietnam unified, China took a good chance then occupied Paracel Island by military force. USA stand out, do nothing for South Vietnam (a gift from US).
+ 1975, Vietnam unified, China began send a large amount aid and weapon, adviser for Khmer-rough in Cambodia.
+ 1976 -1977, Khmer-rough attacked Vietnam many times, kills thousands innocent civillian.
+ 1978, Khmer-rough made a decision used 2 millions Khmer to kills 50 millions Vietnamese. Vietnam has been made a counter-attack which became a full-scale invasion to wipe out Khmer-rough, the genocide government was kill millions Cambodian in time its rule. After that, PRC condemned Vietnam. Vietnam signed alliance fact with Soviet Union in November, 1978.

+ 1979, after USA refused set a normalization relationship with Vietnam. PRC launch a attack on six border province of Vietnam who was nearly defeat Khmer-rough in Cambodia ( China call this "self-defense counterattack against Vietnam", but everyone know that if China did not open the war, Khmer-rough - genocidal force will be destroyed.

+ 1988, Soviet Union and Socialist block in crisis, and changes happened. China take another chance, attacked Vietnam in Spartly Islands when Vietnam also in crisis and tired from Cambodia war.

So who is betrayed!?

_ It's clear that best way for keep the others under your control and depend on you was make them weak and divided
_ And with that thought, This was how China treat Korea in 1951 (with America) and Vietnam in 1954 (with France) and 1972 (with America - China want contiue that way in 1973 at Paris but failed)

_ And yet, Chinese keep crying everywhere that "Vietnam betrayed us, we (will) teach Vietnam lesson", LOL.

If Japan wants to join for trade, then ASEAN will not be called ASEAN. If it is for defense purpose, then the purpose of ASEAN is gone. Also, the alliance would be more of a puppet for US domination.

_ Wrong, It will be call "ASEAN +..." (ASEAN Plus).
_ Become alliance between nations that gain support from American meaning "become puppet for US" with you!? So I consider you are puppet of China propaganda!

_ Why would you established a strong alliance with multi-nations but still being a puppet under other hand!? Even Japan want enhanced their relationship with PRC in 2006, but their dreaming end now. Both side not enough conditions for that evolution.

.

They used term "return Asia" because began 1980 - 1990, they focus their activity in Middle-East after oil crisis in 1970. US already explain it before when they declare new policy.

 

[Soryu]

China was loser when applied dirty policy "divide to rule" in Vietnam 1954 when shaked hands with France to divide Vietnam. North Korea has been known true face of China soon.

North Korea already know that.
That why North Korean test new missile and nuclear weapon, though China did not want they do that.