Japan again looks to get domestic fighter jet off ground

[Aepsilons]

No Assumption they couldn't if they could at the time they would have continue with their own path instead of relying on US this is the truth no shame in it, not forefront of technological frontier when it comes to Aerospace/Aviation post WWII fighter development Name me one serious Fighter Jet Air Superiority Multirole solely development without cooperation of US. Yes but now they are serious and lets see what turns out without US which is highly unlikely US would be involved at some point...Almost all equipment you mentioned have roots of US technologies in them no surprise...by the way F-2 the F-16 spin off is an extremely expensive aircraft one can guess FX- project would be twice expensive and limited in Numbers just as F-2 merely between 82-89 infact it costs 35% more than F-16 Block 60/61.

You have very valid points @Luftwaffe. Originally, Japan wanted to purchase F-22 Raptors , but a US Congressional decision prevented the sale. This was the very reason, the catalyst for Japan to procure its own design. No doubt that we will take into consideration technologies we have learned from the United States. Mitsubishi Heavy Industries as well as Ishikawajima Harima Heavy Industries have a long history in working with the American defense firm Lockheed Martin, and Boeing in regards to airframe, and avionics. So the lessons / information acquired during their past co-operatives have been implemented.

Lastly, I'm not going to argue on the American military defense capability and design processes. They are, objectively, leaders in this field. So, our ability to tap into said R&D serves our interests. As I'm sure you will agree with me that there are many nations around the world that could wish to have direct access that we have. But are denied so.

Best,

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Moreover Japan already has the protection of the U.S through the U.S -Japan security treaty. So they will get almost all what they can from the U.S and no country can dare invade/threaten Japan giving its backed by the worlds only superpower with a formidable military. So i dont really think this is that necessary, since the cost will be huge, it will be better for Japan to continue producing its fighters together with the U.S instead of going it all alone. The U.S still provides Japan with alot of tech and has been a reliable ally since world war II until today.

Add to your analysis, the US has figured out that it can no longer be the constant 24 hour, 7 days a week, 365 days a year Policeman.

It will take action on a certain but no longer unilaterally. If a crisis threatens the US interests it will overtly take action.

 

[Aepsilons]

This is a good initiative for Japan. I welcome it.
However, to be honest, i don't think the U.S will agree/allow Japan to develop one without at least being a JV or partnering with the U.S. Japan going it all independently will not be accepted by the U.S.
Moreover Japan already has the protection of the U.S through the U.S -Japan security treaty. So they will get almost all what they can from the U.S and no country can dare invade/threaten Japan giving its backed by the worlds only superpower with a formidable military. So i dont really think this is that necessary, since the cost will be huge, it will be better for Japan to continue producing its fighters together with the U.S instead of going it all alone. The U.S still provides Japan with alot of tech and has been a reliable ally since world war II until today.

To be honest, Mike, we benefit so much from our alliance with the United States.

Add to your analysis, the US has figured out that it can no longer be the constant 24 hour, 7 days a week, 365 days a year Policeman.

It will take action on a certain but no longer unilaterally. If a crisis threatens the US interests it will overtly take action.

The United States has defended Japan throughout the existence of our 63 year old Mutual Defense Treaty. I say it is time for Japan to hold up its end of the bargain and help the United States in securing and providing stability in the Asia-Pacific. Japan has always been a Naval Power with our natural interests focused in the Greater Asia-Pacific. The United States long has been a Pacific Power. The only Power to have humbled the Imperial Japanese Navy. So, our teaming up, our partnership is a blessing for both nations.

 

[BestUsernameEver]

The U.S. balked at Japan developing its own fighter to replace the F-1, arguing that Japan lacked the technology to develop its own jet engine.

The only component Japan was unable to develop on its own was the engine.

@Nihonjin1051 do you agree with/confirm the above?

Japan has been a world leader in gas turbines for a long time. I doubt they would have been unable to develop their own engines tbh.

 

[Aepsilons]

@Nihonjin1051 do you agree with/confirm the above?

Japan has been a world leader in gas turbines for a long time. I doubt they would have been unable to develop their own engines tbh.

Of course that is unfounded. Ishikawajima Harima Heavy Industries (IHI) is well versed in Aero Engines and related technology.
Btw, it is the same company that is working on the F3 project.

Aero Engines｜Products｜IHI Corporation

http://www.ihi.co.jp/en/products/aeroengine_space2/index.html

 

[mike2000]

Of course that is unfounded. Ishikawajima Harima Heavy Industries (IHI) is well versed in Aero Engines and related technology.
Btw, it is the same company that is working on the F3 project.

Aero Engines｜Products｜IHI Corporation

http://www.ihi.co.jp/en/products/aeroengine_space2/index.html

So you mean the U.S is lying?

To be honest, Mike, we benefit so much from our alliance with the United States.



The United States has defended Japan throughout the existence of our 63 year old Mutual Defense Treaty. I say it is time for Japan to hold up its end of the bargain and help the United States in securing and providing stability in the Asia-Pacific. Japan has always been a Naval Power with our natural interests focused in the Greater Asia-Pacific. The United States long has been a Pacific Power. The only Power to have humbled the Imperial Japanese Navy. So, our teaming up, our partnership is a blessing for both nations.

The Russians did try and failed though.

 

[Aepsilons]

So you mean the U.S is lying?

I did not say that the US is lying, I'm saying that Japan and our Aero & Space Tech sector is more than capable of developing engines. We can launch satellites to space, we have designed and created plenty of airframes, engines, aircraft before.

The Russians did try and failed though.

lol

It was the US Navy that single handedly crushed the German Kriegesmarine and the Imperial Navy.

 

[GR!FF!N]

No Assumption they couldn't if they could at the time they would have continue with their own path instead of relying on US this is the truth no shame in it, not forefront of technological frontier when it comes to Aerospace/Aviation post WWII fighter development Name me one serious Fighter Jet Air Superiority Multirole solely development without cooperation of US. Yes but now they are serious and lets see what turns out without US which is highly unlikely US would be involved at some point...Almost all equipment you mentioned have roots of US technologies in them no surprise...by the way F-2 the F-16 spin off is an extremely expensive aircraft one can guess FX- project would be twice expensive and limited in Numbers just as F-2 merely between 82-89 infact it costs 35% more than F-16 Block 60/61.

you're wrong.I doubt there is very few war equipments which didn't have some kind of "American Input".most of the defence equipment in post WW II world,be it nuclear bombs,aircrafts,ships or missiles---all shares some kind of "American Root".Russia stole and made nuclear bomb from USA.same goes for various espionage missions via which they got info about aircrafts and such.I'd not bring this topic as it is much debatable.see the JF-17??it has DSI,which itself was American Invention.

leave these hollow words.the fact remains that they produced highly evolved and capable defence platforms,be it with or without inputs from USA.and who the hell bother about the level of Co-Op??but,there could be little doubt whether they can build completely indigenous platforms or not.and the answer is,YES.about being expensive and all,Fifth Gen Aircraft,be it made in USA or Russia or China or Japan,it is going to be damn costly.only thing matters is whether you could afford it or not.they can and they'll make this aircraft.about F-2 project,they wanted whole new aircraft.but they couldn't make it due to the reason that USA was pulling strings.so,F-2 became a JV and paying hefty fees for various licenses and small number of fighter produced made it damn costly.plus,don't forget,it doesn't make it inferior product.the fact is,It is world's first AESA equipped operational fighter jet and fully capable to counter heavier fighter jets like Su-30 along with decent maritime strike capability.

 

[Luftwaffe]

It wasn't so much as to prevent Japan from developing a modern-era Jet Fighter, but to maintain US's dominance on Fighter Jet sales.

Japan can easily make a Fighter Jet, they have the R&D, Scientist/ Engineers, and Money.

In fact, this will only strengthen their Defense sector adding a much needed stimulus to a somewhat stagnant economy.

I wonder why they stopped making F-2 [F-16 spin off] after 90 Airframes with 5-7 destroyed in typhoon. These Arcraft could have easily replaced remaning F-4s...let me tell you people because Japan said they can't afford 130-150m per aircraft and the total costs for spares and other maintenance was big enough from their estimates surprising anyway so this FX-? project would someday hit the production line but not more than 100-120 max would be deployed which cost also cost huge, lets be honest Japan loves US proven products F-35s would be front line and they would spend more on that platform even if costs are higher for obvious reasons.

@GR!FF!N are you dumb what is JF-17 doing here @Manticore take notice of trolling.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

The United States has defended Japan throughout the existence of our 63 year old Mutual Defense Treaty. I say it is time for Japan to hold up its end of the bargain and help the United States in securing and providing stability in the Asia-Pacific. Japan has always been a Naval Power with our natural interests focused in the Greater Asia-Pacific. The United States long has been a Pacific Power. The only Power to have humbled the Imperial Japanese Navy. So, our teaming up, our partnership is a blessing for both nations.

But the question is does the US want to allow an Arms race?

Japan boosts it's Defense Sector, makes its own fighter jet.
China and S. Korea, who still remember the scars of the Japanese Occupation, follow suit.
N. Korea will broadcast more threats to the failed Capitalist "God" and their "Bitch".
Vietnam, Philippines, and Taiwan don't want to be outdone by a territorial China.
Cambodia doesn't like Vietnam.

@Nihonjin1051, I think you have already seen how Americans "Forgive and Forget", well more like forget history, but the entire world doesn't really forget. Especially when it's deep colonial scars.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

I wonder why they stopped making F-2 [F-16 spin off] after 90 Airframes with 5-7 destroyed in typhoon.

To clarify the F-2 was a copy of the F-16 but not an unlicensed copy, like the Chinese have done with the SU series. The deal was pretty controversial. Lockheed which was a 'Subcontractor' was able to get intelligence on Japanese manufacturing and R&D.

Take a look at the Israelis. American/German/ French built/ supplied Military Equipment, but meeting Israeli requirements. And if the electronics can't meet those requirements, IMI puts in their own.

The world likes American Weapon systems because they are constantly tested. Where as a Japanese built system isn't going to get that much real-world scenarios.

 

[GR!FF!N]

@GR!FF!N are you dumb what is JF-17 doing here @Manticore take notice of trolling.

I didn't troll.you brought whole lot of aircrafts into discussion.I only mentioned that DSI on JF-17 too is another US invention(invented by Lockheed Martin).every country took US invention one way or another.its a fair comparison,not trolling.

@Oscar @Horus @WebMaster

I don't know why,but I'm not getting notification when someone is mentioning me.

 

[Imran Khan]

nice step move on

 

[Luftwaffe]

To clarify the F-2 was a copy of the F-16 but not an unlicensed copy, like the Chinese have done with the SU series. The deal was pretty controversial. Lockheed which was a 'Subcontractor' was able to get intelligence on Japanese manufacturing and R&D.

Take a look at the Israelis. American/German/ French built/ supplied Military Equipment, but meeting Israeli requirements. And if the electronics can't meet those requirements, IMI puts in their own.

The world likes American Weapon systems because they are constantly tested. Where as a Japanese built system isn't going to get that much real-world scenarios.

Regarding SU being licensed or unlicensed do you have official document to prove these flankers are unlicensed and i mean official dossier not some hanky panky private bureaucratic statement or some general talking about it official released statement and released dossiers. No you don't therefore SU is licensed it is between Russian and Chinese how many licenses did they issue they don't have to declare it to the world about every deal. Does not matter F-2 licensed or not still Japan purchased/develops only 90ish of which some got destroyed in natural disaster the production is permanently ceased,...is it affordability? I believe not but their official statement is it is expensive aircraft to maintain than the next Question how about FX- and F-35 would they be cheaper? Lets be honest local manufacturing and development is costing them alot they have to go to US to buy onf the shelves proven equipment technologies to incorporate and replicate.

 

[tonyget]

It wasn't so much as to prevent Japan from developing a modern-era Jet Fighter, but to maintain US's dominance on Fighter Jet sales.

Japan can easily make a Fighter Jet, they have the R&D, Scientist/ Engineers, and Money.

In fact, this will only strengthen their Defense sector adding a much needed stimulus to a somewhat stagnant economy.

Japan's lifting ban on arms export was welcomed by the US