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Japan: 50 years of the bullet train

Three points need to be clarified:

1. No doubt that Japanese railway's security record is not bad. But what has helped to transform it into a myth in many people's minds is probably the fact that the wikipedia entry on "Railway accidents in Japan" is in Japanese only. As a result, only Japanese and we Chinese can read it, because Japan borrowed the Chinese writing system as one of the constituent writing systems of written Japanese.

Here we have a whole page of Japanese train accidents---derailment, crash, you name it.

search 日本の铁道事故----I'm not allowed to include links yet.


Looking for info on Shinkansen?---indeed not many deadly accidents, but look at the one occurred, most recently, on Sept. 11, 1985.
On Dec. 27, 1995, the first accident involving a passenger's death occurred:
東海道新幹線三島駅乗客転落事故


2. People in and outside China ignore that the Chinese accident occurred not on the closed, specially designed high-speed railway. If we are less strict with the standards with other countries as well---e.g., Japan, we immediately find surprising results. For example:
search Amagasaki_rail_crash

The Amagasaki rail crash which caused 106 deaths, almost 3 times the death toll of China's accident.

The high-speed train accident which occurred in 1998 in Germany also killed more than 100 people.


3. China indeed purchased high-speed train technologies from France, Germany and Japan. Yet this does not mean that no technological improved has been achieved on the basis of these products. The train used for the Beijng-Shanghai line was designed by Chinese engineers. Of course, no one can deny that the Japanese technology, among others, serves as an important foundation for later advancments. But let us not forget that---before China started to import high-speed train techonology in the middle of the last decade, China was already able to design and manufacture trains that could run at 250-320km/h. (search China Star Train). Chinese was not satisfied with the relatively low development of such precursors of Chinese fast trains and decided to import foreign techonologies, in order that a fast train network be constructed within the end of the 2000's--which indeed happened.
Without such backgrounds, China would not have been able to digest, reproduce and improve foreign technologies within 10 years. Give those trains to any country and let's see what happens.
Seriously, even now Japanese cars are still sometimes blamed for being unsafe and of low quality---especially by their German and American competitors. But look at how many people have purchased their cars---including myself. Don't believe in rumors, see things for yourself.
Despite Germany's horrible accident in 1998, China did not hesitate when attempting to import German technology---because we know that accidents are accidents---they are the anomoly.

Besides---there is no sound reason to mock China for importing foreign technologies---that is what Japan did in the 1960 and 1970s, and what the US did from the 1920s down to the end of the War.


 
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Super Komachi Shinkansen



日撮影 3月16日、ついに営業運転を開始した新型車両E6系『スーパーこまち』。
その営業運転デビュー初日の賑わいを一番列車の高速通過、乗車、連結まで、東北新幹線
くりこま高原駅・盛岡駅・秋田新幹線(田沢湖線)田沢湖駅で撮影しました。
新型車両を目の前に興奮する子供たちの声が印象的でした(笑)
 
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Since 2001 the Japanese Shinkansen 5 accident, killing 114 people, injuring 493 people.
Only Chinese things will be amplified blindly.


I know what you mean, you mean the Japanese Shinkansen safety, China is not...

Ha-ha you didn't say without mincing words expression, but hinted , ha ha:wave:
Oh!!! I never know that. Yes. News I read are a selected set.
 
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Buying things is not about nationalism or ethnicity-ism isn't it? Except during war time, nobody buy things from enemy.
We also welcome Chinese Train to bid as well.
I say I feel safer with Japanses Shinkangsen because 50 years experience, which means that all bugs must have been fixed.

I didn't say we will buy Japanese or Chinese train. I say you all are welcome to bid. After all, nobody is doing charity. Everybody is trading.
I think Japanese bullets train is out at the beginning.

Shinkansen is a tech. island. It is isoluted from other systems. In InnoTrans(InnoTrans - Startseite ) there are only 39 japanese companies. If the attitude of japanese companies is so cold to contact with the world, I am afraid to say, they are not prepared for exporting their Shinkansen, at least I can not see the willing. Maybe just propaganda of politicians.

The productivity is other problem. Kyushu Shinkansen takes 8 years to build 256km line. Another Shinkansen in Taiwan takes 7 years to build a 345 km line. After the booming of high speed rail construction, must countries have downsized their productivity of high speed rail sector. Japan has also downsized. It takes years to rebuild the factories and train the new workers. After the booming of exporting, there is another downsizing. For a company, it is very costy. The willing of exporting from the industry side, I have not seen it.

If India chooses Shinkansen, I am afraid to say, in 10 years the first line is still under construction.

Why does china want to export high speed rail? The booming time of chinese high speed rail is going to the end. To avoid downsizing the industry, we have to export and right now high speed rail is affordable for many developing countries. If the industry is also downsized like Germany and Japan, the price for high speed rail must be raised. To build a high speed rail in east south Asia and south assia is right now an opportunity period.

Another point is, if the east south asia want to connect to each other and also china like EU, Shinkansee is never in the list.
 
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I think Japanese bullets train is out at the beginning.

Shinkansen is a tech. island. It is isoluted from other systems. In InnoTrans(InnoTrans - Startseite ) there are only 39 japanese companies. If the attitude of japanese companies is so cold to contact with the world, I am afraid to say, they are not prepared for exporting their Shinkansen, at least I can not see the willing. Maybe just propaganda of politicians.

The productivity is other problem. Kyushu Shinkansen takes 8 years to build 256km line. Another Shinkansen in Taiwan takes 7 years to build a 345 km line. After the booming of high speed rail construction, must countries have downsized their productivity of high speed rail sector. Japan has also downsized. It takes years to rebuild the factories and train the new workers. After the booming of exporting, there is another downsizing. For a company, it is very costy. The willing of exporting from the industry side, I have not seen it.

If India chooses Shinkansen, I am afraid to say, in 10 years the first line is still under construction.

Why does china want to export high speed rail? The booming time of chinese high speed rail is going to the end. To avoid downsizing the industry, we have to export and right now high speed rail is affordable for many developing countries. If the industry is also downsized like Germany and Japan, the price for high speed rail must be raised. To build a high speed rail in east south Asia and south assia is right now an opportunity period.

Another point is, if the east south asia want to connect to each other and also china like EU, Shinkansee is never in the list.

Second that.

Chinese bullet trains are indeed impressive and very much emulate out European and Japanese tech, that is without doubt.

In this competition, both Abe administration and some pro Japan politicians need to be realistic. Notwithstanding ups and downs relations with China, these landlocked or bordered south east Asian will eventually be connected to the mainland, or China. So the rail system standard is set. I hope Japanse firms can join the Chinese to build the huge Asian rail network together for the good of all Asians.
 
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I think Japanese bullets train is out at the beginning.

Shinkansen is a tech. island. It is isoluted from other systems. In InnoTrans(InnoTrans - Startseite ) there are only 39 japanese companies. If the attitude of japanese companies is so cold to contact with the world, I am afraid to say, they are not prepared for exporting their Shinkansen, at least I can not see the willing. Maybe just propaganda of politicians.

The productivity is other problem. Kyushu Shinkansen takes 8 years to build 256km line. Another Shinkansen in Taiwan takes 7 years to build a 345 km line. After the booming of high speed rail construction, must countries have downsized their productivity of high speed rail sector. Japan has also downsized. It takes years to rebuild the factories and train the new workers. After the booming of exporting, there is another downsizing. For a company, it is very costy. The willing of exporting from the industry side, I have not seen it.

If India chooses Shinkansen, I am afraid to say, in 10 years the first line is still under construction.

Why does china want to export high speed rail? The booming time of chinese high speed rail is going to the end. To avoid downsizing the industry, we have to export and right now high speed rail is affordable for many developing countries. If the industry is also downsized like Germany and Japan, the price for high speed rail must be raised. To build a high speed rail in east south Asia and south assia is right now an opportunity period.

Another point is, if the east south asia want to connect to each other and also china like EU, Shinkansee is never in the list.

I admire your analysis. This say both economic terms and technical reason.

I do have some question since I am no expert on train.
Shinkansen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Shinkansen also use European Standard gauge. Can I say the track use with Shinkansen can also be used with China CRH? Since both use the same gauge.
 
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I guess it is quite hard.
Track is only a small problem, the operation system, signal system are the most important part of high speed train.
And these system can hardly be changed to adapt to other system.


I admire your analysis. This say both economic terms and technical reason.

I do have some question since I am no expert on train.
Shinkansen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Shinkansen also use European Standard gauge. Can I say the track use with Shinkansen can also be used with China CRH? Since both use the same gauge.
 
.
Three points need to be clarified:

1. No doubt that Japanese railway's security record is not bad. But what has helped to transform it into a myth in many people's minds is probably the fact that the wikipedia entry on "Railway accidents in Japan" is in Japanese only. As a result, only Japanese and we Chinese can read it, because Japan borrowed the Chinese writing system as one of the constituent writing systems of written Japanese.

Here we have a whole page of Japanese train accidents---derailment, crash, you name it.

search 日本の铁道事故----I'm not allowed to include links yet.

Looking for info on Shinkansen?---indeed not many deadly accidents, but look at the one occurred, most recently, on Sept. 11, 1985.
On Dec. 27, 1995, the first accident involving a passenger's death occurred:
東海道新幹線三島駅乗客転落事故


2. People in and outside China ignore that the Chinese accident occurred not on the closed, specially designed high-speed railway. If we are less strict with the standards with other countries as well---e.g., Japan, we immediately find surprising results. For example:
search Amagasaki_rail_crash

The Amagasaki rail crash which caused 106 deaths, almost 3 times the death toll of China's accident.

The high-speed train accident which occurred in 1998 in Germany also killed more than 100 people.

3. China indeed purchased high-speed train technologies from France, Germany and Japan. Yet this does not mean that no technological improved has been achieved on the basis of these products. The train used for the Beijng-Shanghai line was designed by Chinese engineers. Of course, no one can deny that the Japanese technology, among others, serves as an important foundation for later advancments. But let us not forget that---before China started to import high-speed train techonology in the middle of the last decade, China was already able to design and manufacture trains that could run at 250-320km/h. (search China Star Train). Chinese was not satisfied with the relatively low development of such precursors of Chinese fast trains and decided to import foreign techonologies, in order that a fast train network be constructed within the end of the 2000's--which indeed happened.
Without such backgrounds, China would not have been able to digest, reproduce and improve foreign technologies within 10 years. Give those trains to any country and let's see what happens.
Seriously, even now Japanese cars are still sometimes blamed for being unsafe and of low quality---especially by their German and American competitors. But look at how many people have purchased their cars---including myself. Don't believe in rumors, see things for yourself.
Despite Germany's horrible accident in 1998, China did not hesitate when attempting to import German technology---because we know that accidents are accidents---they are the anomoly.

Besides---there is no sound reason to mock China for importing foreign technologies---that is what Japan did in the 1960 and 1970s, and what the US did from the 1920s down to the end of the War.
U r a smart analyst, Very Well ! :tup:
 
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Second that.

Chinese bullet trains are indeed impressive and very much emulate out European and Japanese tech, that is without doubt.

In this competition, both Abe administration and some pro Japan politicians need to be realistic. Notwithstanding ups and downs relations with China, these landlocked or bordered south east Asian will eventually be connected to the mainland, or China. So the rail system standard is set. I hope Japanse firms can join the Chinese to build the huge Asian rail network together for the good of all Asians.
Chinese bullet trains are farther than emulating out Eu an Jp tech. Although right now most tech. is inherited from Germany, we also use Japan techs. German ICE also use Japan techs. The wheels of ICE are made in Japan. The Chinese CRH is is not a pure Chinese project, but made by a globalized group.

I donot want to say to much about techs, because I am not a profi. The Chinese guy and our German companies are in the same stage in the InnoTrans, after the exhibition is over everyday they ate on the same table, and slept in the same hotel, whether some ones in the same bed that is too much..... Even their business cards are in the same form, the differences are there are a small logo for Siemens and Bombardier. Even the master key of a CRH is made in a small factory in Berlin. A 2000 euro key...

In Germany the productivity of ICE is about 50 sets, as I read last time in newspaper. If the productivity is so small, it is not enough for exporting. Even they talk ahout the price of steel conduct to the reduction of ICE producation. Japan's producation is reduced more than 10 years ago. To expand their business is not an easy job.

The third point, i am doubt. Can japan tech island swollow the whole india and east south asia market? That will make the China, EU and Canada happy. Even Korea have taken part in the group. Shinkansen against the whole world rail way producer, that is the most interesting thing, because they share too little. The Shinkansen has a very bad exporting record, just because they are too greedy.
 
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totally safe, it's unbelievable but true.
We admire you, Japanese friends.

No one could catch up that record.
 
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It wasn't the earthquake that caused the Fukishima meltdown, it was the tsunami.
Same shit isn't it? The earthquake was what caused the tsunami. So basically it's the same either ways you want to call it.

Come to bid Thailand's project! We need good quality Japanese train. I would feel saver riding Japanese Shinkangsen than China high speed train as the later has less experience. For the same price, I will choose Japanese train any time. But I guess it is not the same price. If the ticket price is too high, I simply need air plane, or bus.

I really need good train coz I would like to travel with many friends and many bikes.
Yes, you're truly very smart. Let the Japanese build it and later use the bus or the air. Very smart people out there.
 
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