J-XY - maybe J-35 - next generation carrier-borne fighter

[Kabotar]

It seems as if AVIC itself lifted the veil of secrecy about the future carrier-borne fighter giving a strong hint that a much redesigned variant has been selected by PLAN (already rumored as J-35) to be powered by the new WS-19.
(Image via AVIC Weibo account)

https://www.weibo.com/3061210763/Ilw13bjX4?type=comment#_rnd1576759928989

View attachment 594590

Excited for WS-19.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Excited for WS-19.

It will be in same class as F-414/EJ-200

 

[serenity]

It will be in same class as F-414/EJ-200

They aim to preserve performance at least at RD-33 or WS-13 power with more reliability. To be honest RD-33 is pretty okay and Chengdu was confident using on single engine fighter like JF-17 which they was not for WS-10 in 1990s and early 2000. Until now after ten years of service they feel okay about it. From beginning they were okay with RD-33 and AL-31. Chinese engine in early 2000 was unproven.

WS-19 should aim to improve reliability and service life. Hopefully better thermal designs and fuel efficiency. J-35 is confirmed by AVIC so they must be using WS-19. This means JF-17 in future may switch over if size is not trouble. Or if WS-19 infact can equip on single engine fighter. Maybe Chengdu will feel they need to wait some years of WS-19 positive service first.

 

[Ultima Thule]

They aim to preserve performance at least at RD-33 or WS-13 power with more reliability. To be honest RD-33 is pretty okay and Chengdu was confident using on single engine fighter like JF-17 which they was not for WS-10 in 1990s and early 2000. Until now after ten years of service they feel okay about it. From beginning they were okay with RD-33 and AL-31. Chinese engine in early 2000 was unproven.

WS-19 should aim to improve reliability and service life. Hopefully better thermal designs and fuel efficiency. J-35 is confirmed by AVIC so they must be using WS-19. This means JF-17 in future may switch over if size is not trouble. Or if WS-19 infact can equip on single engine fighter. Maybe Chengdu will feel they need to wait some years of WS-19 positive service first.

Bro didn't Chinese copy RD-93 as a WS-13 and we know that First protype of FC-31 have RD-93, which consider weak for FC-31 (Low thrust to weight ratio) because FC-31 using relaying to much afterburner to be remain supersonic

 

[Beast]

They aim to preserve performance at least at RD-33 or WS-13 power with more reliability. To be honest RD-33 is pretty okay and Chengdu was confident using on single engine fighter like JF-17 which they was not for WS-10 in 1990s and early 2000. Until now after ten years of service they feel okay about it. From beginning they were okay with RD-33 and AL-31. Chinese engine in early 2000 was unproven.

WS-19 should aim to improve reliability and service life. Hopefully better thermal designs and fuel efficiency. J-35 is confirmed by AVIC so they must be using WS-19. This means JF-17 in future may switch over if size is not trouble. Or if WS-19 infact can equip on single engine fighter. Maybe Chengdu will feel they need to wait some years of WS-19 positive service first.

WS-19 is meant to surpassed RD-93. It's is consider a next gen engine.

 

[smooth manifold]

It seems as if AVIC itself lifted the veil of secrecy about the future carrier-borne fighter giving a strong hint that a much redesigned variant has been selected by PLAN (already rumored as J-35) to be powered by the new WS-19.
(Image via AVIC Weibo account)

https://www.weibo.com/3061210763/Ilw13bjX4?type=comment#_rnd1576759928989

View attachment 594590

So FC-31 is dead?

 

[serenity]

Bro didn't Chinese copy RD-93 as a WS-13 and we know that First protype of FC-31 have RD-93, which consider weak for FC-31 (Low thrust to weight ratio) because FC-31 using relaying to much afterburner to be remain supersonic

Yes WS-13 is copy of RD-33. I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps language problem.

We don't know J-35 real weight. No one said FC-31 has low thrust to weight because no one knows FC-31's weight and it's a prototype so really it's quite light. Real fighter will be much heavier. From looking at size comparison, it seems RD-33 or RD-93 is not enough for J-35. I think J-35 will use WS-19 and the whole waiting for FC-31 to develop from 2015 was because there was no information on engine performance and final specifications. Now the engineers know what they have to do so progress goes back on.

WS-19 is meant to surpassed RD-93. It's is consider a next gen engine.

Yes WS-13 is the same as RD-33 series but WS-19 is supposed to be the next generation to take this size of engine to performance of F-414 and EJ200 level. This is something I mean by size, weight, thermal properties, fuel consumption, normal power and afterburner power, reliability, maintenance cycles and service life. RD-33 and WS-13 is okay compared to M88 and M53 but still poorer reliability and service life.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Yes WS-13 is copy of RD-33. I'm not sure what you mean. Perhaps language problem.

We don't know J-35 real weight. No one said FC-31 has low thrust to weight because no one knows FC-31's weight and it's a prototype so really it's quite light. Real fighter will be much heavier. From looking at size comparison, it seems RD-33 or RD-93 is not enough for J-35. I think J-35 will use WS-19 and the whole waiting for FC-31 to develop from 2015 was because there was no information on engine performance and final specifications. Now the engineers know what they have to do so progress goes back on.

Bro as far as i remember in 2016 Zuhai airshow there was Flight demonstration of FC-31, in that Demonstration FC-31 using lots of afterburner for maneuverability (hence low thrust to weight ratio), and you have no engine that comparable to RD-93 class and FC-31 prototypes using RD-93 engine (most probably), and FC-31 always categorize as a medium weight jet not as a light weight jet

 

[serenity]

Bro as far as i remember in 2016 Zuhai airshow there was Flight demonstration of FC-31, in that Demonstration FC-31 using lots of afterburner for maneuverability (hence low thrust to weight ratio), and you have no engine that comparable to RD-93 class and FC-31 prototypes using RD-93 engine (most probably), and FC-31 always categorize as a medium weight jet not as a light weight jet

I don't understand what the point is? Is it to say J-35 has no engine? I already said it must be using WS-19 not WS-13 or RD-33. Remember WS-19 was not available in 2015. I don't think RD-33 is a bad engine or unreliable. But it's not good enough for 5th generation fighter. Even J-20 which come out about 10 years earlier than J-35 will come out is getting new WS-15 in few years and switched several times to upgraded AL-31 and then WS-10.

Afterburner for performance is Eurofighter and F-35 too. I think because all fighter in performance is lightened and fuel is calculated, seeing afterburner doesn't tell much. Of course FC-31 prototype is lighter than a fully developed fighter so it should have lower equal thrust to weight than the others but RD-33 on the prototype really we cannot tell much from this.

So FC-31 is dead?

J-35 for navy is FC-31 developed for navy.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I don't understand what the point is? Is it to say J-35 has no engine? I already said it must be using WS-19 not WS-13 or RD-33. Remember WS-19 was not available in 2015.

Afterburner for performance is Eurofighter and F-35 too. I think because all fighter in performance is lightened and fuel is calculated, seeing afterburner doesn't tell much. Of course FC-31 prototype is lighter than a fully developed fighter so it should have lower equal thrust to weight than the others but RD-33 on the prototype really we cannot tell much from this.

bro bro F-35 using high by pass ratio engine (Like Civil airliner engine with afterburner) and as EJ-200 is low by pass engine has enough thrust to weight ratio that EF-2000 can agile/maneuverable without afterburner
all and all Current FC-31 weight doesn't match the thrust of RD-93/WS-13, so hence its has low thrust to weight ratio and that's why you developing WS-19 because you're not satisfied with performance of RD-93/WS-13 on FC-31

 

[Kabotar]

Is there a timeline for first flight & induction?

 

[serenity]

bro bro F-35 using high by pass ratio engine (Like Civil airliner engine with afterburner) and as EJ-200 is low by pass engine has enough thrust to weight ratio that EF-2000 can agile/maneuverable without afterburner
all and all Current FC-31 weight doesn't match the thrust of RD-93/WS-13, so hence its has low thrust to weight ratio and that's why you developing WS-19 because you're not satisfied with performance of RD-93/WS-13 on FC-31

Okay let's completely start over. What about the things I said you disagree with? I said everything you said here. I don't get it. It's like I said ABC and then you say bro bro ABC. Yeah I know ABC. What are you trying to say? Maybe highlight something I said and then tell me what is wrong or what you disagree with.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Okay let's completely start over. What about the things I said you disagree with? I said everything you said here. I don't get it. It's like I said ABC and then you say bro bro ABC. Yeah I know ABC. What are you trying to say? Maybe highlight something I said and then tell me what is wrong or what you disagree with.

I am just trying to say with current engine WS-13/RD-93 FC-31 has low thrust to weight ratio, that's all i have to say

 

[Deino]

With now being pretty much confirmed I would suggest to continue at least the naval related FC-31 discussion here in this thread!

 

[Ultima Thule]

Is there a timeline for first flight & induction?

Is there a timeline for first flight & induction?

are you talking about FC-31 or J-35 if you talking about FC-31 its took first Flight in 2014 and FC-31 still a private (company) project, still no investment by PLAAF/PLAN so no 100% guarantee that PLAAF/PLAN will induct this jet in near future