J&K: Infiltrators occupy Indian village along the LoC, say sources

[Dillinger]

I wouldn't deny that this is a cool story too - not much different from what you routinely seem to pick up while buying ' beers ' and ' wines ' from army canteens and officer mess , well whatever helps one sleep

No confirmation has been made yet as to who the deceased infiltrators are, the CO 15th corps has made it clear that beyond military fatigues and heavy firepower there are no further indications at the moment. The area in question is depicted above. So yes, at the moment the involvement of Pakistani regulars, even if known by the boots on the ground, cannot be corroborated.

Whoever was running the op on the infiltrator side was well informed though, since these posts went into rotation from Kumaon to GR right at the time the infiltration bid occurred. Although I am waiting for some diversionary attack to take place deeper in Kashmir to corroborate my hunch.

 

[Bang Galore]

Story becoming bigger:

India points finger at Pakistan army in Kashmir clash | Fox News

India says fighting big Kashmir incursion from Pakistan side | Reuters

Indian army says troops fighting militants who entered Indian-held Kashmir - The Washington Post

Pakistani troops occupy Indian village along LoC: report | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia

The Pakistanis have even started to comment on this:

Pakistan army denies Indian allegations of LoC clash - DAWN.COM

 

[Dillinger]

Story becoming bigger:

India points finger at Pakistan army in Kashmir clash | Fox News

India says fighting big Kashmir incursion from Pakistan side | Reuters

Indian army says troops fighting militants who entered Indian-held Kashmir - The Washington Post

Pakistani troops occupy Indian village along LoC: report | Pakistan Today | Latest news | Breaking news | Pakistan News | World news | Business | Sport and Multimedia

The Pakistanis have even started to comment on this:

Pakistan army denies Indian allegations of LoC clash - DAWN.COM

Its better for us to wind up the clean up op. As it is the the ruins of the settlement (good vantage point since its situated in a clearing, with foliage on both sides a about 50-100 meters away) would have provided good cover. Its good to see the CO 10th core being very deliberate and professional about it. They are taking their time in the combing op and no KIAs so far which is a good thing (even the WIAs are stable).

Apparently their is a separate encounter going on in Ahmadnagar, not the diversion I was looking for. Been there while visiting a certain school, can't remember the full name- Khusal Valley or something.

 

[Secur]

No confirmation has been made yet as to who the deceased infiltrators are, the CO 15th corps has made it clear that beyond military fatigues and heavy firepower there are no further indications at the moment. The area in question is depicted above. So yes, at the moment the involvement of Pakistani regulars, even if known by the boots on the ground, cannot be corroborated.

Whoever was running the op on the infiltrator side was well informed though, since these posts went into rotation from Kumaon to GR right at the time the infiltration bid occurred. Although I am waiting for some diversionary attack to take place deeper in Kashmir to corroborate my hunch.

A small scale war , they said ? As per the Indian sources , the area was infiltrated and a ghost village captured on September 23 , last month . Is it usual for army to take that long to evict some 15-20 intruders from even a remote , inaccessible area which ironically is so close to the Line Of Control or for the intruders to actually hold on to an area ? The timing itself , casts doubts over the entire thing . Why declare a victory in the ongoing operation just when the Prime Ministers were about to meet in NY when the operation was underway since a week ? Besides this , there are no pictures of any infiltrators dead nor credible reports to actually say how many were dead .

 

[Dillinger]

A small scale war , they said ? As per the Indian sources , the area was infiltrated and a ghost village captured on September 23 , last month . Is it usual for army to take that long to evict some 15-20 intruders from even a remote , inaccessible area which ironically is so close to the Line Of Control or for the intruders to actually hold on to an area ? The timing itself , casts doubts over the entire thing . Why declare a victory in the ongoing operation just when the Prime Ministers were about to meet in NY when the operation was underway since a week ? Besides this , there are no pictures of any infiltrators dead nor credible reports to actually say how many were dead .

The eviction is not from a "ghost village", which is scarcely a "village" to begin with, its 4-5 dilapidated structures in a clearing. The issue is that close to half a dozen infiltrators are said to have slipped from the assault on said area and entered the foliage around. Now the combing ops are on, in fact no exchange of fire as such is going on at the moment BUT we are the one's stalking them that does not mean that the tables cannot be turned if the troops walk into an ambush. There are enough nullahs there, as even I observed, to hide in and launch ambushes. Ergo the CO was very clear, we will take our time as we comb the area AND that he will not tolerate any pressure from anyone (a veiled pointer in the direction of babus up in Delhi who usually put out edicts like "get this over with now, brush it under the carpet before a bigger media storm erupts", as it is the GOI is under severe pressure for persisting with the uninterrupted talks theme.) So yes, it will take time. I for one would like it if they maintained the cordon and took another week, allowing more surveillance assets to be brought in to recce the area. Where will the infiltrators run too? Perhaps trickle back across the LOC, beyond that they can't break out from the AO, so why should the troops rush in and risk lives. Its fortunate that we have had no casualties till now, I'd rather they maintained that and took their time.

 

[Secur]

The eviction is not from a "ghost village", which is scarcely a "village" to begin with, its 4-5 dilapidated structures in a clearing. The issue is that close to half a dozen infiltrators are said to have slipped from the assault on said area and entered the foliage around. Now the combing ops are on, in fact no exchange of fire as such is going on at the moment BUT we are the one's stalking them that does not mean that the tables cannot be turned if the troops walk into an ambush. There are enough nullahs there, as even I observed, to hide in and launch ambushes. Ergo the CO was very clear, we will take our time as we comb the area AND that he will not tolerate any pressure from anyone (a veiled pointer in the direction of babus up in Delhi who usually put out edicts like "get this over with now, brush it under the carpet before a bigger media storm erupts", as it is the GOI is under severe pressure for persisting with the uninterrupted talks theme.) So yes, it will take time. I for one would like it if they maintained the cordon and took another week, allowing more surveillance assets to be brought in to recce the area. Where will the infiltrators run too? Perhaps trickle back across the LOC, beyond that they can't break out from the AO, so why should the troops rush in and risk lives. Its a fortune that we have had no casualties till now, I'd rather they maintained that and took their time.

Again , I am just repeating the words of the Indian media here , I am not even sure what exactly happened there . Why call the 4-5 scattered structures in an area as such ? Just to sensationalize ? The IB describes this small scale war , does this make sense for you , mate ? Add to it , capturing of three posts by the same people and this looks absurd . Too many conflicting reports . I heard about the infiltration , sure that was nothing new , but I also saw the reporting that the infiltrators were trapped by the forces . So just how did they escape and find enough time and opportunity to find themselves a new shelter ? This isn't that it doesn't happen , the timing in such case is a problem .

You are now declaring " intruders " dead and operation concluded with " regular soldiers from PA " in a hush-hush tone , but yet you aren't able to retrieve their bodies , it has been more than 8 days now . The combing operations to clear the area , shouldn't have taken that long after all , nearly all of them have been neutralized . I know about the terrain , enough places to hide and ambush troops . The CO wasn't even sure about how the militants were roaming from one place to the next and how many of them were there , mate . Nobody from Delhi is going to tell him to stop the operation , are they ? The Indian PM didn't really speak in a friendly tone and no positive indication was received from him , ahead of a meeting with a person whom he can genuinely hope to make peace with . Maybe some time , its time to tone down the rhetoric and ask others accompanying you to do the same .

 

[Dillinger]

Again , I am just repeating the words of the Indian media here , I am not even sure what exactly happened there . Why call the 4-5 scattered structures in an area as such ? Just to sensationalize ? The IB describes this small scale war , does this make sense for you , mate ? Add to it , capturing of three posts by the same people and this looks absurd . Too many conflicting reports . I heard about the infiltration , sure that was nothing new , but I also saw the reporting that the infiltrators were trapped by the forces . So just how did they escape and find enough time and opportunity to find themselves a new shelter ? This isn't that it doesn't happen , the timing in such case is a problem .

You are now declaring " intruders " dead and operation concluded with " regular soldiers from PA " in a hush-hush tone , but yet you aren't able to retrieve their bodies , it has been more than 8 days now . The combing operations to clear the area , shouldn't have taken that long after all , nearly all of them have been neutralized . I know about the terrain , enough places to hide and ambush troops . The CO wasn't even sure about how the militants were roaming from one place to the next and how many of them were there , mate . Nobody from Delhi is going to tell him to stop the operation , are they ? The Indian PM didn't really speak in a friendly tone and no positive indication was received from him , ahead of a meeting with a person whom he can genuinely hope to make peace with . Maybe some time , its time to tone down the rhetoric and ask others accompanying you to do the same .

Its the posters here declaring that PA regulars have been killed. Look up the news items and you will see that the IA spokesperson himself has made it clear that at the moment they are not willing to jump the gun and point fingers, they have stated that the infiltrators had support but not that they themselves were regulars.

Twelve or so bodies were recovered as I have mentioned before, and CO addressed that topic and made it clear that beyond the military fatigues (which is not really any proof as such) there was nothing distinguishing about them.

On the other hand there might be some sensationalists media outlets that might start up the mill, my suggestion- wait for Arnab Goswami. The IA has made it clear that as they surrounded the area there were multiple breakout attempts and in the fire-fight a small group did indeed break-out. It is to hunt that group that the combing op is being conducted. Such breakouts occur every time, it is in fact the most common tactic employed by insurgents all over the world where small groups detach from the main body of insurgents to try and slip out during a firefight, a firefight being one of the most dynamic situations in CQB and COIN ops allows enough time for egress.

As to why call the place a village (the high res pic of the area is provided in this thread, look at the clearing- that's where the buildings are- 500 to 600 meters on the other side of the LOC the new village is situated) or call it a war, dunno. Last time regulars infiltrated in that sector in 2002, that was a small war with eight Mirages being tasked to pound the AO.

The very fact that the PM spoke at all to his counterpart is an issue here, whether the chat was friendly or otherwise is not even the issue. Yaara I was rather clear, generally they are ordered to rush in (NOT stop the op), as in expedite the operation, which leads to poor recce and preparation (in relative terms) and casualties.

 

[rockstarIN]

No confirmation has been made yet as to who the deceased infiltrators are, the CO 15th corps has made it clear that beyond military fatigues and heavy firepower there are no further indications at the moment. The area in question is depicted above. So yes, at the moment the involvement of Pakistani regulars, even if known by the boots on the ground, cannot be corroborated.

Whoever was running the op on the infiltrator side was well informed though, since these posts went into rotation from Kumaon to GR right at the time the infiltration bid occurred. Although I am waiting for some diversionary attack to take place deeper in Kashmir to corroborate my hunch.

There is another fight going on in kashmir valley btw troops and terrorists who attacked with grande

 

[Dillinger]

There is another fight going on in kashmir valley btw troops and terrorists who attacked with grande

Not troops as such, Police and LEA with a terrorist(s) they cornered in Ahmadnagar, not what I was referring to in my post.

 

[Abhishek_]

Tibet is not an internationally recognized dispute territory.

taiwan is.

 

[karan.1970]

I wouldn't deny that this is a cool story too - not much different from what you routinely seem to pick up while buying ' beers ' and ' wines ' from army canteens and officer mess , well whatever helps one sleep

I was the 1st one to say that its the rumor that's doing the rounds in the army circles. Never vouched for the authenticity of it. But not my fault if the story played out more of less according to the script. Was it a lucky guess?? could well be.. Was it something more? Could well be as well

 

[Secur]

I was the 1st one to say that its the rumor that's doing the rounds in the army circles. Never vouched for the authenticity of it. But not my fault if the story played out more of less according to the script. Was it a lucky guess?? could well be.. Was it something more? Could well be as well

Well , usually in these threads , I see the same rumors every time by the same person and that isn't a coincidence , some people like to make things up and present them as " reality " . Are you seeing more when little exists ? Could well be . Mixing thing too much when they aren't even remotely related ? Could well be as well

 

[krash]

Stupid Source!

Thread closed..

1) The source link does not work.

2) The source is as credible as me.

3) No official statement by the Indian authorities.

and the thread is still not closed.......
@Aeronaut, @nuclearpak.

 

[Leader]

The thread is not closed because itni mehnat say endians nay news likhi hai english mien

 

[karan.1970]

Well , usually in these threads , I see the same rumors every time by the same person and that isn't a coincidence , some people like to make things up and present them as " reality " . Are you seeing more when little exists ? Could well be . Mixing thing too much when they aren't even remotely related ? Could well be as well

I am not responsible for what you see and interpret dude. And then, are you seeing less when more exists? Are you missing the wood for the trees and are not able to connect the dots..There is no end to possibilities now, is it??

Why wouldn't India end its occupation of J&K and leave the people there for self determination. This is a internationally recognized dispute territory where the majority of people there do not side with India. These people have the freedom to choose which country they want to join.

Now where is the fun in that

If there is Pakistani involvement officially corroborated by either ISPR or by the Indian MoD. Then it is should be posted. At this point its only speculation by Indian media.

Didn't ISPR deny involvement of Pakistan in Kargil for months ? And its not a speculation by Indian media only. Indian Army spokesperson has already hinted at involvement of Special forces. I am assuming he meant SF of Pakistan and not Timbaktoo..