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J-11B vs Su-30MKI

So in your mind: buying engine means copying? continuing buying AA means copying?

OK maybe you are right in this one thing, that China still copy SU30MK and SU34, but that is not simply copy, those are improving.

You're wrong.
Buying engine means still unable to copy. Same to missiles.

You buy Ford engine for a Ford, .. when you buy AL31F we know it's for Sukhoi-27 and its variants.
 
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Either idiocy or ignorance or shortsighted mind.

What is to be copied from an engine? model? design?

You could apply all of above adjective to yourself if you think there's nothing to copy from an imported engine
 
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1. All by guess? How could a J10A interfere an exercise of Vietnam in Southern of Vietnam at the time? in June 2011.
2. Explain me what's the Southern word in the post ?
I could tell you that, during 2011, Chinese media focus much on Vietnam Su-30MK2 ( first 12 for Southern ), Kanwa editor even said that Vietnam Su-30MK2 more modern than China Su-30,
and usual, we see Chinese netizens argued so much and find a way to make themselves feel safe by saying J-10A could beat Su-30Mk2. In the post they say kill ratio Su30 5:0 J10A ( in China exercise ). Same to the way they said that they know well about Kilo class submarines 10 year ago and they could easily handle more improved Kilo class subs that Vietnam just received 2013-2015.
That's Chinese style, I don't argue.

And after declaring their ABM, Planes and Subs superior to That of Rusia, They will go to russia to beg Russian ABM, Planes and Subs.
HQ series is better than S 300 and S 400 still they buy S400 from Russai.
Their Planes anr superior to That of Russia still they are negotiating for Su 35.
Their subs are better than russia still they are negotiating palnes wit russia. And I agree with you.

That's Chinese style, I don't argue.
 
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You could apply all of above adjective to yourself if you think there's nothing to copy from an imported engine


What is the definition of "copy" in your mind?

It is obvious that you dont understand the meaning of copy; especially as you claim that J-20 is a copy of F-22, or J-10 is a copy of LAVI.

You run away from my other questions unanswered by you.

And after declaring their ABM, Planes and Subs superior to That of Rusia, They will go to russia to beg Russian ABM, Planes and Subs.
HQ series is better than S 300 and S 400 still they buy S400 from Russai.
Their Planes anr superior to That of Russia still they are negotiating for Su 35.
Their subs are better than russia still they are negotiating palnes wit russia. And I agree with you.

That's Chinese style, I don't argue.

Since when China request Russia to sell Su35?
Most probably it is Russia that force china to buy SU35 as russia requirement for chinese buying S117.
 
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nice order or disorder
where are the European jets?

They said Typhoon the next generation compare to Su-30MKI

British Typhoons whacked India's Sukhois in joint exercises'
Submitted by admin4 on 24 July 2011 - 2:32pm
By N.C. Bipindra, IANS,

RAF Fairford (Britain) : Britain's frontline fighter jet Eurofighter Typhoon, shortlisted for India's $10.4-billion combat jets tender, whacked the Indian Air Force (IAF) warhorse Sukhoi in one-on-one dog fights during bilateral air war games, if Britain's air chief is to be believed.

"Well, they lost," was Stephen Dalton's response when IANS asked how the Russia-developed India-manufactured Su-30MKI air superiority jets performed against the Royal Air Force's (RAF) Typhoons when they matched their wits during the joint exercises in recent years.

However, he was quick to add that the two aircraft are different in technologies, and that Typhoons are next generation, and hence there is no comparison.

Dalton was interacting with IANS at the recently held Royal International Air Tattoo military air show at the RAF base here.

The two aircraft were pitted against each other during 'Indradhanush' exercises in 2007 at Waddington in Britain and in 2010 at Kalaikunda in India.

Interestingly, the IAF had claimed in 2007 that Sukhoi's performance against Typhoon had convinced the RAF of its superiority. "The RAF pilots were candid in their admission of the Su-30 MKI's observed superior manoeuvring in the air, just as they had studied, prepared and anticipated," an Indian defence ministry release had said during the July 2007 Indradhanush.

It was, however, fair to Typhoon, saying the IAF pilots were impressed with its agility in the air.

Dalton was also all praise for the IAF for training its pilots to put any aircraft they fly to best use.

"The issue is you are comparing technology and people. So, more often than not, technology can give you a great edge, a great lead. But actually it is always the people (behind the machines) who make the difference at the end of the day," he said.

"It is not just how the aircraft did in the air. It is also about how the individual thinks, how they work, and their willingness to develop and to experiment.

"I have always found the IAF to be extremely good. Yes, technology is a significant element, but also the individual is really important in this," he added.

Dalton also indicated that the IAF inventory of Sukhois, MiGs and Mirages are no match to the Typhoons.

"Nothing that India has got is anything anywhere near this (the Typhoon). I would say that absolutely. This airplane is phenomenally different in both performance and technology in anything they (IAF) got right now," he said.

But, he added, it was not criticism, as Typhoon is the product of next generation technology.

"I would say the IAF crew that I have worked with and seen are every bit as clever as any other air crew in the world, and in many cases better. It is all about the man as the machine that they operate," he added.

Dalton said the cooperation between the RAF and the IAF will continue, as Britain valued this relationship. "IAF has a lot of experience and I would like to suck that out and use it, quite frankly," he added.
 
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LOL. That is not China request Rusia, that is Russia push China to buy SU35 as condition to buy S117.

:laugh: :laugh:

How about WS-xx engines of China?
As I know, Sukhoi 27-based engines can't reach supercruise ability, except what Russia claimed with AL-41F1S.

1. China plan to make J-20 operational in 2018. What engine they would mount onto it to have some advance features like supercruise? How's about its progress?
Or J-20 will fly with engines similar to AL-31 ? which is engine for gen 4 aircraft?

2. Without purchase of AL41F1S or Su-35, what is the alternative engine for J20 deadline?
As we all know AL-41F1S for Su-35, it takes much time to "learn" and "reproduce" the design of AL41F1S, even China would order to buy Su-35 before 2016 , not sure they can meet the targeted time for J-20. Because the delivery of Su-35 is about 2018-2020.

3. Russia, China media reported that Vietnam would get Su-35 at the same time as China, Venezuela during 2018-2020. What is the more advance aircraft China has at the time?
J-20? we doubt about that.

Be noted that Japan would get first F-35A this year. What's the same generation China prepare to deal with Japan F-35A next few years?
J-11D ? .... LOL
 
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From the article ( not from me )
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Beijing needs an aircraft capable of rivaling Japan's F-35s and India's Su-30MKI and T-50 planes but is unsure that J-11D jets will be a viable competitor.

Read more: All You Need is Su-35: China Should Buy Russian Fighter Jets – Media / Sputnik International
How about WS-xx engines of China?
As I know, Sukhoi 27-based engines can't reach supercruise ability, except what Russia claimed with AL-41F1S.

1. China plan to make J-20 operational in 2018. What engine they would mount onto it to have some advance features like supercruise? How's about its progress?
Or J-20 will fly with engines similar to AL-31 ? which is engine for gen 4 aircraft?

2. Without purchase of AL41F1S or Su-35, what is the alternative engine for J20 deadline?
As we all know AL-41F1S for Su-35, it takes much time to "learn" and "reproduce" the design of AL41F1S, even China would order to buy Su-35 before 2016 , not sure they can meet the targeted time for J-20. Because the delivery of Su-35 is about 2018-2020.

3. Russia, China media reported that Vietnam would get Su-35 at the same time as China, Venezuela during 2018-2020. What is the more advance aircraft China has at the time?
J-20? we doubt about that.

J-20 planned to use WS-15.
In case WS-15 is not matured in 2018, China plan to use S-117 from Russia.

Thats the reason why China is still open with option to buy S-117, and Rusia force China to buy SU35 as condition to buy S-117.

Be noted that Japan would get first F-35A this year. What's the same generation China prepare to deal with Japan F-35A next few years?
J-11D ? .... LOL

LOL?

You havent prove the advantage MKI over J-11A
I have shown you why J-11B will lead MKI.

Now you LOL on J-11D? why? :cuckoo:

J-11D use a second generation AESA, a more advanced compared to AESA on J-11B.
SU-35 is still using PESA.

Definitely J-11D will blow SU-35B in BVR engagement (1 to 1 engagement with the same pilot skill).



As I said It is because the Engine.

From your own source:

Despite the evident maturity of the J-11D program, the Chinese military nevertheless appears to also be going ahead with plans to purchase Russian Su-35 Flankers. The Su-35 is far more maneuverable than the J-11 – which gives the Russian jet an advantage in short-range dogfights – can fly longer distances, and can take off and land with a larger payload. It is also equipped with new avionics and new cockpit displays. However, its radar is a less advanced passive electronically scanned array (PESA) than the AESA system on the J-11D. Moreover, the aircraft and its systems will be manufactured abroad. The Chinese government views its indigenous defense industry as a strategic asset; purchasing more planes from Russia will not help advance Beijing’s goal of developing a mature, self-reliant aerospace industry. Given the apparent redundancy of moving forward with two very similar aircraft programs, some analysts speculate that the PLAAF’s primary motivation for buying the Su-35 may not be for its value as a weapons system but rather because it is equipped with advanced AL-117S turbofans.
Why China’s Air Force Needs Russia’s SU-35 | The Diplomat


The more maneuverable of SU35 is because of the greater Engine thrust of S-117 while J-11 is still using AL-31 or WS-10A. The maneuverability will talk much in dogfight. But for BVR it is Radar, RCS, and BVRAAM that talk, where J-11D is at advantage.
 
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J-20 planned to use WS-15.
In case WS-15 is not matured in 2018, China plan to use S-117 from Russia.

Thats the reason why China is still open with option to buy S-117, and Rusia force China to buy SU35 as condition to buy S-117.

The more maneuverable of SU35 is because of the greater Engine thrust of S-117 while J-11 is still using AL-31 or WS-10A. The maneuverability will talk much in dogfight.

1. Is it simple as buy S117 in 2018 and mount it into J-20?
No. For 24 Su-35, you must order now and get delivery in 2018-2020, 24 Su-35 and maybe 24 engines as sparepart.
So there's nothing for confront Japan F-35A next 3-5 years.

2. Another promising item is supercruise ability which existed in Western aircraft : F-22, F-35, Typhoon ( supercruise at Mach 1.5 ), Rafale, Gripen even F-16 ... but never existed in Russian aircraft.

Without supercruise, your air fleet is always left behind the competitor in any clash in blue ocean.

Let share us how far the best China aircraft could fly at Mach > 1 ? with full arm?

3. If China confirm to buy Su-35, there's no major Su-27-based aircraft they didn't buy from Russia. It's would be very disappointed.

antonius: air combat isn't game online to compare specifications on papers against each other.
How many J11D you have? After J11A/B production, we found no other model produced in large quantity.
I'm interested in how J11-D take advantage against Su-35? and against F-35A ?

4. great maneuver aircraft could even avoid short range missiles, better chance for them against long range AA missiles. An aircraft like Su-35 or even F-16 isn't easy target even you claim you could "lock on" it. They're not slow as surface targets to solely defend by their anti air weapon
 
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Forget stealth aircraft. They won't work unless you figure out how to use your own radar with out being detected. Thats above top secret tech right there.
 
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1. Is it simple as buy S117 in 2018 and mount it into J-20?
No. For 24 Su-35, you must order now and get delivery in 2018-2020, 24 Su-35 and maybe 24 engines as sparepart.
So there's nothing for confront Japan F-35A next 3-5 years.

Su-35 has no chance againts F-35 in BVR. Su-35 can beat F-35 only in WVR or dogfight.

China should put money on J-11D to face F-35 instead SU-35.

As I said china is forced to buy SU35 as requirement to buy S-117.


2. Another promising item is supercruise ability which existed in Western aircraft : F-22, F-35, Typhoon ( supercruise at Mach 1.5 ), Rafale, Gripen even F-16 ... but never existed in Russian aircraft.

Without supercruise, your air fleet is always left behind the competitor in any clash in blue ocean.

Let share us how far the best China aircraft could fly at Mach > 1 ? with full arm?

WS-15 will have.
They have good progress.

Dont ask again then why buy S-117; I ve explained you that China will need huge amount of 5 gen engine for hundreds of J-11B, J-11D, J20 that may not be sufficient to be fullfilled by WS-10G or WS-15 alone. Also China need to consider way out in case WS15 progress is not as per expected.


3. If China confirm to buy Su-35, there's no major Su-27-based aircraft they didn't buy from Russia. It's would be very disappointed.

When will you be smart?

There is nothing to dissappoint. China is satisfied with J-11B, J-11D, and J16.
IF china doesnt need to buy S-117, there is no story of buying SU-35

antonius: air combat isn't game online to compare specifications on papers against each other.
How many J11D you have? After J11A/B production, we found no other model produced in large quantity.
I'm interested in how J11-D take advantage against Su-35? and against F-35A ?

You should tell this to yourself.
You have nothing even on paper to claim MKI better than J-11B.

China already can produce WS-10A, hence there is no problem to produce J-11D.
The lead time to acquire J-11D will be about the same with the lead time to acquire Su-35.

I've told you many times J-11D have second generation AESA and better avionics compared to Su35.
J-11D may not be able to engage F-35 in BVR, but able in WVR.

4. great maneuver aircraft could even avoid short range missiles, better chance for them against long range AA missiles. An aircraft like Su-35 or even F-16 isn't easy target even you claim you could "lock on" it. They're not slow as surface targets to solely defend by their anti air weapon


LOL. You are ignorant.

Missile is very dangerous for even the most agile a/c. Have you ever heard first shoot first kill?

A/c or pilot can not withstand 15G while pilotless and smaller missile can.

Dogfight and WVR is less predictable and depend lots on pilot skill.
BVR will more depend on technology.

Thats why in modern combat AForce will emphasize on BVR engagement to avoid pilot in danger situation.
 
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How many J11D China have now?

When Chinese pilots face the latest enemy aircraft ?

FYI, Vietnamese pilots on Mig-17 and Mig-21 shot down many F4 Phantom designed with BVR guided missiles. This F4 type is very special, because designers removed the gun, it totally based on missiles.

Believe me, it's still difficult to use mid range missiles to shot down a flexible aircraft.
 
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