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J-10s for PAF

Pakistan should vigorously pursue the stealth technology. China has already mastered it to some extent and its Stealth Bomber project H-8 is the latest proof of that. It does not have to be as good as the US stealth tech as long as it works. It needs a beginning and we have to have faith in ourselves that's all.:wave:

Care to elaborate on how much stealth technoloy did the chinese mastered? And as for the H-8, there is no such thing as an H-8 bomber. Its just a wet dream of some internet kid. China is still pursuing this technology and is still years behind from finally acquiring it. You see even the russians who have a much superior aviation industry then the chinese are still behind in this field, to expect that the chinese have mastered it is like living in a fools paradise.
And as for us, we are still waiting for the IAF to go forward with their MRCA deal. Once that deal is materialized, we will know exactly what will we be facing in the coming future and will plan accordingly.
 
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I will dream on whether you like it or not for the food that I take does not come from the land of the bigots, that much I know. As far as the hungry people of Bangladesh are concerned there won't be any hunger the day the international robbers' union or the World Bank and the IMF are kicked out of this country. Regarding the homeless issue I have seen first hand just how well fed the US homeless are. It's a shame that a country that can afford to spend trillion dollars to wage wars has homeless people in it. Besides, it has war criminals like Tony Blair as its counsellors so I'm not at all surprised. What is really mind bogling is when words of wisdom eminates from the land of the bigots that is also known as the UK:cheesy:.

Tony Blair a war criminal ?

:blah:

Devote more energy on the topic of J 10 and maybe you will learn how good or obsolete it is. Don't worry for the homeless in USA. Meanwhile check where the engines of the planes are comming from that will tell you how advanced the Chinese Aviation Industry is.

Regards
 
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Another point is that do not go on what the americans have to say. They want to convince their huge taxpayers that indeed the F-22 is the only fighter that can counter the chinese J-10. You need to take such reports with a pinch of salt.

ok, i have never heard USA make such a claim. please give the source.
 
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I THINK THAT THE COST OF HAVING A SQUADRON OF PLANES LIKE F-22 IS BEYOND AFFORDIBILITY OF PAKISTAN. EVEN US IS NOT ABLE TO REPLACE F-15 WITH F-22 ON ONE TO ONE RATIO BECAUSE OF ITS PRICE TAG. PAF SHOULD CONTINUOUSLY IMPROVE THE JF-17 AND SHOULD PURCHASE J-10 OF F-16 WHICH EVER AVAILABLE. BUT ONE IMPORTANT THING THAT THEY MUST HAVE SOME KIND OF LAND BASED AIR DEFENCE SYSTEM TO TRACK AND SHOOT DOWN THE STEALTHY AIRCRAFTS / CRUISE MISSILES. FURTHER, CAN ERIEYE SYSTEM TRACK TARGET LIKE THESE OR IT NEEDS IMPROVEMENT.
 
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ok, i have never heard USA make such a claim. please give the source.

SU i have read on more then one place US generals making such claims about F-22 being the only jet in the USAF inventory to outperform the J-10, i think there was one article pasted here as well in chinese thread. Anyways my net is damn slow these days, i'll try to look for one again and post it to my earliest convinence.
 
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Care to elaborate on how much stealth technoloy did the chinese mastered? And as for the H-8, there is no such thing as an H-8 bomber. Its just a wet dream of some internet kid. China is still pursuing this technology and is still years behind from finally acquiring it. You see even the russians who have a much superior aviation industry then the chinese are still behind in this field, to expect that the chinese have mastered it is like living in a fools paradise.
And as for us, we are still waiting for the IAF to go forward with their MRCA deal. Once that deal is materialized, we will know exactly what will we be facing in the coming future and will plan accordingly.

lets add some professional opinion to the debate....

Value of stealth: debate continues

While some question whether the cost of stealthy aircraft can be justified, others argue that these assets will determine who has the edge in future air combat. Caitlin Harrington reports

Lockheed Martin's F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter and F-22 Raptor air superiority aircraft are the most recent incarnations of the drive towards stealth and therefore at the forefront of the debate over the value of such a capability.

While the benefits cannot be denied - reduced detection on the first day of combat and the safety of aircrew - the debate is over the cost of such a capability weighed against this value.

A pilot uniquely placed to evaluate the two aircraft is Jon Beesley: the only test pilot to have flown both the Lightning II and the Raptor as well as the previous generation of stealth aircraft in the form of the Lockheed Martin F-117 Nighthawk.

Beesley, who has served as chief test pilot for the F-35 since June 2002 and also flew the F-22 in its test stages, said he believes that the qualities of so-called 'fifth-generation fighters' - highly manoeuvrable, stealthy aircraft - will determine who has the edge in future air combat.

Beesley said he envisages both aircraft playing complementary roles in future air operations. The F-22 would fly top-cover, playing an air-to-air role, while the F-35 would fly below, playing an air-to-ground role.

"The Raptor carries more air-to-air weapons than the F-35 and has a stealthier role than the F-35, but the F-35 can carry larger bombs," Beesley told Jane's. "It's the mix of the two that really gives you the overall effectiveness."

However, it remains to be seen whether Beesley is correct in assuming that stealth aircraft will play a central role in future US Air Force ( USAF) combat operations.

The affordability of stealth aircraft has become a significant obstacle to fielding a large number of stealth forces. There are only 21 B-2 Spirit stealth bombers and some industry executives predict the USAF will field no more than 200 or so next-generation long-range stealth bombers in 2018 because of the high costs. In a similar vein, production of the F-22 stealth fighter has been cut back to less than one quarter of what was projected in 1991.

Questions also remain about the value added by the stealth capability of the F-22 and the F-35. F-35 stealth technology mirrors that of the F-22, which is just one generation ahead of the F-117 Nighthawk. Stealth in the F-35 also comes at the price of a weapons load restricted in weight, numbers and variety of weapons.

Beesley, however, insists that the stealth in the F-22 and the F-35 is a significant improvement over the F-117, which he flew when it was still a black programme. He also says that stealth offers the USAF a significant benefit over its adversaries.

"It's kind of a terror weapon. You start out with a big advantage because you see [the enemy] before he sees you. The first kill is always yours," he said.

Secretary of the USAF Michael Wynne echoed Beesley's view during a 19 September speech in which he said that stealth would become an absolute necessity in future conflicts.

Wynne took credit for inventing the term 'fifth-generation fighter', which he defined as an aircraft with "stealth, speed and precision".

Wynne went on to say that the USAF needs large forces of these fifth-generation aircraft because potential adversaries have recognised a major US weakness: the trouble it has in procuring stealth in large numbers and thus the continued heavy United States reliance on 'fourth-generation' fighters.

During the 2003 invasion of Iraq, for example, the only stealth assets available to "kick down the door" in downtown Baghdad on the first day came in the form of 21 B-2 Spirit bombers and about 56 Nighthawks.

Wynne warned that potential adversaries such as Venezuela and Iran recognise US reliance on fourth-generation fighters. In response they are moving toward investments in large forces of their own fourth-generation fighters, such as Russia's Sukhoi Su-27 and Su-30, he said.

"Our enemies have learned from us ... fourth-generation fighters wouldn't be allowed in Tehran, or Caracas for that matter, once they buy [the fighter aircraft that] the Russians are selling," Wynne said.

The stealth characteristics of the F-22 and the F-35 will ensure the US maintains the edge in airpower, Wynne said. Both aircraft carry their weapons internally and have special laminates on their skins to reduce their radar signature. They also have datalinks that can potentially eliminate the need to break radio silence.

Beesley said the F-22 has better stealth technology than the F-35, including a super cruise capability. Super cruise allows the F-22 to break the speed of sound without using an afterburner, which has a large heat signature that could be identified by enemy radar.

Beesley said the stealth technology on the F-22 and the F-35 are complemented by favourable flying qualities that would allow the fighters to outperform fourth-generation fighters in a visual engagement.

The F-22 additionally has thrust vectoring: a capability that allows the engine nozzles to move to facilitate sharp, quick turns. The F-35 does not have thrust vectoring, but Beesley said the fighter has flight control systems that allow high manoeuvrability.

F-35 pilots also have the advantage of the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System, which allows pilots to slave weapons and sensors toward a target by turning their head. Even if the F-35 cannot turn as fast as his enemy in a dogfight, the pilot can still slew his weapons to fire the first shot.

Beesley has served as the test pilot for 13 of the first 19 test flights of the first F-35 test aircraft (AA-1). The 20th flight test will not take place until the F-35's primary engine, the F135, undergoes a thorough review, according to Lockheed Martin spokesman John Smith. An anomaly in one of the F135 engines for the short take-off/vertical landing variant of the F-35 recently became evident on the test stand in Florida and now all F135 engines have to be checked before the AA-1 aircraft can fly again, Smith added.
 
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lets add some professional opinion to the debate....

Value of stealth: debate continues

While some question whether the cost of stealthy aircraft can be justified, others argue that these assets will determine who has the edge in future air combat. Caitlin Harrington reports

Lockheed Martin's F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter and F-22 Raptor air superiority aircraft are the most recent incarnations of the drive towards stealth and therefore at the forefront of the debate over the value of such a capability.

While the benefits cannot be denied - reduced detection on the first day of combat and the safety of aircrew - the debate is over the cost of such a capability weighed against this value.

A pilot uniquely placed to evaluate the two aircraft is Jon Beesley: the only test pilot to have flown both the Lightning II and the Raptor as well as the previous generation of stealth aircraft in the form of the Lockheed Martin F-117 Nighthawk.

Beesley, who has served as chief test pilot for the F-35 since June 2002 and also flew the F-22 in its test stages, said he believes that the qualities of so-called 'fifth-generation fighters' - highly manoeuvrable, stealthy aircraft - will determine who has the edge in future air combat.

Beesley said he envisages both aircraft playing complementary roles in future air operations. The F-22 would fly top-cover, playing an air-to-air role, while the F-35 would fly below, playing an air-to-ground role.

"The Raptor carries more air-to-air weapons than the F-35 and has a stealthier role than the F-35, but the F-35 can carry larger bombs," Beesley told Jane's. "It's the mix of the two that really gives you the overall effectiveness."

However, it remains to be seen whether Beesley is correct in assuming that stealth aircraft will play a central role in future US Air Force ( USAF) combat operations.

The affordability of stealth aircraft has become a significant obstacle to fielding a large number of stealth forces. There are only 21 B-2 Spirit stealth bombers and some industry executives predict the USAF will field no more than 200 or so next-generation long-range stealth bombers in 2018 because of the high costs. In a similar vein, production of the F-22 stealth fighter has been cut back to less than one quarter of what was projected in 1991.

Questions also remain about the value added by the stealth capability of the F-22 and the F-35. F-35 stealth technology mirrors that of the F-22, which is just one generation ahead of the F-117 Nighthawk. Stealth in the F-35 also comes at the price of a weapons load restricted in weight, numbers and variety of weapons.

Beesley, however, insists that the stealth in the F-22 and the F-35 is a significant improvement over the F-117, which he flew when it was still a black programme. He also says that stealth offers the USAF a significant benefit over its adversaries.

"It's kind of a terror weapon. You start out with a big advantage because you see [the enemy] before he sees you. The first kill is always yours," he said.

Secretary of the USAF Michael Wynne echoed Beesley's view during a 19 September speech in which he said that stealth would become an absolute necessity in future conflicts.

Wynne took credit for inventing the term 'fifth-generation fighter', which he defined as an aircraft with "stealth, speed and precision".

Wynne went on to say that the USAF needs large forces of these fifth-generation aircraft because potential adversaries have recognised a major US weakness: the trouble it has in procuring stealth in large numbers and thus the continued heavy United States reliance on 'fourth-generation' fighters.

During the 2003 invasion of Iraq, for example, the only stealth assets available to "kick down the door" in downtown Baghdad on the first day came in the form of 21 B-2 Spirit bombers and about 56 Nighthawks.

Wynne warned that potential adversaries such as Venezuela and Iran recognise US reliance on fourth-generation fighters. In response they are moving toward investments in large forces of their own fourth-generation fighters, such as Russia's Sukhoi Su-27 and Su-30, he said.

"Our enemies have learned from us ... fourth-generation fighters wouldn't be allowed in Tehran, or Caracas for that matter, once they buy [the fighter aircraft that] the Russians are selling," Wynne said.

The stealth characteristics of the F-22 and the F-35 will ensure the US maintains the edge in airpower, Wynne said. Both aircraft carry their weapons internally and have special laminates on their skins to reduce their radar signature. They also have datalinks that can potentially eliminate the need to break radio silence.

Beesley said the F-22 has better stealth technology than the F-35, including a super cruise capability. Super cruise allows the F-22 to break the speed of sound without using an afterburner, which has a large heat signature that could be identified by enemy radar.

Beesley said the stealth technology on the F-22 and the F-35 are complemented by favourable flying qualities that would allow the fighters to outperform fourth-generation fighters in a visual engagement.

The F-22 additionally has thrust vectoring: a capability that allows the engine nozzles to move to facilitate sharp, quick turns. The F-35 does not have thrust vectoring, but Beesley said the fighter has flight control systems that allow high manoeuvrability.

F-35 pilots also have the advantage of the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System, which allows pilots to slave weapons and sensors toward a target by turning their head. Even if the F-35 cannot turn as fast as his enemy in a dogfight, the pilot can still slew his weapons to fire the first shot.

Beesley has served as the test pilot for 13 of the first 19 test flights of the first F-35 test aircraft (AA-1). The 20th flight test will not take place until the F-35's primary engine, the F135, undergoes a thorough review, according to Lockheed Martin spokesman John Smith. An anomaly in one of the F135 engines for the short take-off/vertical landing variant of the F-35 recently became evident on the test stand in Florida and now all F135 engines have to be checked before the AA-1 aircraft can fly again, Smith added.

Indeed a very professional opinion about stealth and its impact on the future conflicts. A great article, thankyou sir for posting it up.:tup:

Regards
IceCold
 
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ok, i have never heard USA make such a claim. please give the source.

SU read the sticky J-10 thread, fatman sir's post. He has posted an article there where the US claims that only the F-22 can out perform the J-10.
 
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Tony Blair a war criminal ?

:blah:

Devote more energy on the topic of J 10 and maybe you will learn how good or obsolete it is. Don't worry for the homeless in USA. Meanwhile check where the engines of the planes are comming from that will tell you how advanced the Chinese Aviation Industry is.

Regards

The problem is you worry about our problems too much. So, I suggest that instead of lecturing others on more 'pressing issue' you think about your own problem for people do not want to hear about pressing issue from those who are always busy waging wars. As for Tony Blair, he and his master, Bush, both are war criminals.
 
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PAF should opt for the J-10s instead of F-16s. Recently in an excercise three F-16s were pitted against a single F-22 and all three F-16s were shot down. This shows the standard of the F-16s at present. PAF should find something to fight against fighters like F-22 of the US. If it means the development of a stealth version of the J-17, let it be so. PAF should have at least one squadron of fighters to counter threats like the F-22s.

Public expenditure on defence has to be justified against threat perception a country faces. on point in wet dreamingpakistan is not going to fight the US of A. any time soon. (btw ..i hope it does!!!)
ur point that pakistan should go for J-10s is OK but stop the F-22 non-sense..nothing comes close..not yet!

Also, you can't possibly have better equipment than your supplier does. Really cutting edge tech is privy of the countries that make their own stuff and this generally is not for the export market. Even china won't share all the tech it manages to produce with pak.
 
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Did T-Rex actually talk about F-22? Does he know what he is talking about and how much they cost?

The numbers are more than all Bangladeshis (and Pakistanis) produce in a year. No country in SA can afford them.

Pl. come out of the wet dreams and talk sense. There are enough mundane day to day problems in Bangladesh, worry about them first!
 
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I concur! Please revert back to and stay with the topic of this thread.

Thanks!
 
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