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J-10 might not needed as they don't add anything to PAF's capability

Its really hard to say as number of factors comes to play
e.g J10 who it should replace (F7/Mirage) so 190 of these could easily be replaced by 90 of J10s with better capabilities .
J10 (F16 replacement no need to as MLU and J10s are at par with each other)

J10 itself is revolutionary in design as room for improvement is quite a lot specially J10C is some thing to look at as it offers more than F16 . I am little disappointed in the idea people are totally write off J10 but in reality we need repalcement for 200 birds and all cant be done with F17 .

Hi,

As I posted at a couple of other places---the issue of the J10 is not that simple---.

The rejection of the J10 by the Paf is a retort to the pak army and Gen Musharraf---it is a fck you call to Gen Musharraf and army by the Paf---telling him you tried to forc eit on us and we rejected it---now you cannot do anything to us to get this aircraft--.

We all know why Mushy ordered this J 10 aircraft---he found out that the JF 17 would not be upto the task and the project for the JF 17 was less for the defense of pkistan and more for the money making for the Paf---.

The aircraft chief engineer agreed some 5-7 years ago that the J10 was electronically inferior to the F16 BLK 52's----but not in flight parameters----it was the same----.
 
Hi,

As I posted at a couple of other places---the issue of the J10 is not that simple---.

The rejection of the J10 by the Paf is a retort to the pak army and Gen Musharraf---it is a fck you call to Gen Musharraf and army by the Paf---telling him you tried to forc eit on us and we rejected it---now you cannot do anything to us to get this aircraft--.

We all know why Mushy ordered this J 10 aircraft---he found out that the JF 17 would not be upto the task and the project for the JF 17 was less for the defense of pkistan and more for the money making for the Paf---.

The aircraft chief engineer agreed some 5-7 years ago that the J10 was electronically inferior to the F16 BLK 52's----but not in flight parameters----it was the same----.
So battle of ego`s not technical or financial ,Yes i do remmember his step for Chinese ZDK and J10 ,probably it had raised questions on credibility of some heads of PAF as head of land forces was making the calls
 
J10C is totally different bird altogether.

If PAC/PAF can integrate other than Chinese sub systems on JF why cant they do the same with J10C?

With localised production PAC can build it numbers.

The idea that J10 was rejected back then can not be applied to the evolved J10C.

Again the inner dynamics of PAF are only known to PAF.

Which ever way, one sees, the only viable option left for PAF is having a local production of mid range fighter to replace its aging fleet.

IF they think that J10C or in development J10D is not matching there requirements, what will?

Apart from f16s of course.

What are their options? And how are they goiing to achieve their objectives?

It is a bit unclear at present.

Otherwise, the only practical and economic option would be to develop a larger airframe based on JF17.
 
J10C is totally different bird altogether.

If PAC/PAF can integrate other than Chinese sub systems on JF why cant they do the same with J10C?

With localised production PAC can build it numbers.

The idea that J10 was rejected back then can not be applied to the evolved J10C.

Again the inner dynamics of PAF are only known to PAF.

Which ever way, one sees, the only viable option left for PAF is having a local production of mid range fighter to replace its aging fleet.

IF they think that J10C or in development J10D is not matching there requirements, what will?

Apart from f16s of course.

What are their options? And how are they goiing to achieve their objectives?

It is a bit unclear at present.

Otherwise, the only practical and economic option would be to develop a larger airframe based on JF17.

Sir,

The problem here is that Paf has been caught in trap by it own lies---.

Bad decisions---incompetence---lies---that is what is haunting the Paf at this time---.

But the unique thing about the Paf is that it lies like what the jews say---lie so many times and with so much conviction---that people believe in it as the truth.
 
Sir,

The problem here is that Paf has been caught in trap by it own lies---.

Bad decisions---incompetence---lies---that is what is haunting the Paf at this time---.

But the unique thing about the Paf is that it lies like what the jews say---lie so many times and with so much conviction---that people believe in it as the truth.

Dear Mr. MK, I begin to see things from your perspective.

So what can be done?

True, lies repeated have their own momentum...can become a perpetual motion machine.

The only thing that I see is that the national interests of your good country are best served through local production of whatever jet the good PAF chooses.

Buying off the shelve will be a national misfortune.

Thank you for your kind reply.
 
J20 hits 2 birds with 1 stone i.e stealth and payload otherwise a setup for 100 j10c should be developed

J20 will hit all the birds with one stone. There is no comparison between stealth vs 4++ generation fighters. No matter how many pluses anyone add to 4th generation, they are no match for stealth. Single squadron of J-20 (considering it's on par with F-22) can take out whole IAF.

So, I would suggest PAF to get serious about stealth. Let IAF waste Billions on SU-30s and Rafaels, potent stealth will duck shoot them.

BTW Russian Stealth program is in trouble. Western analysis don't believe that Russian design is decent enough for a stealth fighter and their RAM is also questionable. So IAF is pretty much F'd if PAF is able to acquire J20.
 
Just one point
A modern 4 or 4++ gen is much more capable than old 3gen birds
Now yes paf needs to replace old birds yes but they don't need to replace bird by bird
Current plans are 150 thunder
100 f16
And few squadrons of 5th gen bird
It's not a really big number but stop living in the edge of world war 2
Modern warfare is network centric warfare
People say how will jf17 thunder will fight against su 30 or mirage this or that they don't need to that's what I see paf going for
If one bird see enemies all the other will see that's why paf is developing it's aware system and going for more modern BvR capable birds yes there will be dog fighting too but majority of fight will be in Punjab
Where Sams will play a big part
And all this is possible and economy can support it while paf can save some for fifth generation birds too and than can add more assets
I hope this helps you see @MastanKhan since you said you are a car seller do tell me if you have 1 truck which can carry load of 2 tons and 1 truck which can carry load of 3 tons which will you buy one which carry 3 ton or 3 truck and these 3 which will cost you more in long term to I see a sound investment by paf
@Super Falcon I hope you understand stand this
@Oscar as you sound in other post people will reply with personal bs, atleast we can try to spoon feed them with a bit of common sense so they could end up developing rational thinking
 
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Dear Mr. MK, I begin to see things from your perspective.

So what can be done?

True, lies repeated have their own momentum...can become a perpetual motion machine.

The only thing that I see is that the national interests of your good country are best served through local production of whatever jet the good PAF chooses.

Buying off the shelve will be a national misfortune.

Thank you for your kind reply.

Hi,

A confrontation and a sacrifice is what will start to bring a change.

Indeed---building it yourself is a solution---but filling the hole is more important---.

You have to have the weapons yesterday to fight the war that is coming today---.

The south china seas confrontation is a very good example---only if china had 10 years of breathing room available in the past---it would not have happened.

That is where the young pakistani kids and adults alike fail to understand the consequences---.

If you look at the neighbor---you will see it was extremely concerned after pak alliance with the US after 9/11---it was shi-tting ice cubes---getting a heart attack that Paf would be equipped with deadly aircraft at a fast pace and the upper hand in power they had would be lost.

But tragically---it was the Paf that sabotaged itself by not getting a potent platform right away---.

These kids are so brainless---so thoughtless---that they say another 72 J10's won't bring any new abilities to the table.

They are so airheaded that they do not have the ability to understand that if you have 4 military divisions of armor---and you add another 4 military divisions of similar armor---for them it means that you have not increased the strength---.

I am astounded at their thoughtlessness and lack of comprehension---and the real problem is they keep of mentioning that---.

If you look at the neighbor's foreign policy actions---you will see a drastic change in attitude and aggression towards pakistan---and as the Paf kept failing in addressing the issue---their aggression increased over the years by a multiplier.

And why this thing has happened---no one has ever confronted the Paf on the public forums---because no know knows or understand their deceipts and how they have decepted pakistan.

Here is an anology---when there is a criminal caught---the police has to interrogate the CRIMINAL to get the real answers---but when the public wants to start quip in and starts justifying on the behalf of the criminal---the criminal does not have to say anything when others are helping his actions.

Every one of these kids have a sob story about lack of funds---and I know that such was not the case---funds were made available to them at all times---.

It is because of these kids and men---that when they accept the lowest level of performance of the Paf---Paf is happy----.

These kids don't understand---that if they got together and formed a front and confronted the Paf as a united voice---the force and power of that voice would shake the workings of the Paf and will get them back to the real world---.

Just one point
A modern 4 or 4++ gen is much more capable than old 3gen birds
Now yes paf needs to replace old birds yes but they don't need to replace bird by bird
Current plans are 150 thunder
100 f16
And few squadrons of 5th gen bird
It's not a really big number but stop living in the edge of world war 2
Modern warfare is network centric warfare
People say how will jf17 thunder will fight against su 30 or mirage this or that they don't need to that's what I see paf going for
If one bird see enemies all the other will see that's why paf is developing it's aware system and going for more modern BvR capable birds yes there will be dog fighting too but majority of fight will be in Punjab
Where Sams will play a big part
And all this is possible and economy can support it while paf can save some for fifth generation birds too and than can add more assets
I hope this helps you see @MastanKhan since you said you are a car seller do tell me if you have 1 truck which can carry load of 2 tons and 1 truck which can carry load of 3 tons which will you buy one which carry 3 ton or 3 truck and these 3 which will cost you more in long term to I see a sound investment by paf
@Super Falcon I hope you understand stand this
@Oscar as you sound in other post people will reply with personal bs, atleast we can try to spoon feed them with a bit of common sense so they could end up developing rational thinking


Hi,

Trying to be sarcastic---see---you don't understand the load carrying capabilities of trucks and how they works---.

Trucks with that kind of weight capabilities are not sold just like that---so you have to sit and asses the customers wants and needs---. When you are at the upper margin---you go to the next level up---.

Because the customer can come back with his attorney a year later and shove that truck up the dealer's ar-se back---get his money back and damages.

There is not much difference in the price and operation of a two ton and a 3 ton truck---pretty much the same.

But the job that the 3 ton truck can do---the 2 tonner cannot---and never will because of the flexibility of the carrying the extra load.

So---when I am flying 300 miles from the shore line over arabian seas watching my maritimes borders----I would rather have 2 CM400's hanging on my wings rather than one---and 2 to 3 fuel tanks for a good loiter time.

With the 3 ton truck---I can also add an extra fuel tank for longer haul and carry 2 ton load anytime of the day or night---.

But if you are talking about the difference between a 7-10 ton truck to a 2 ton truck---I would say that it costs more---but then the utilities are totally different.
 
Hi,

A confrontation and a sacrifice is what will start to bring a change.

Indeed---building it yourself is a solution---but filling the hole is more important---.

You have to have the weapons yesterday to fight the war that is coming today---.

The south china seas confrontation is a very good example---only if china had 10 years of breathing room available is the past---it would not have happened.

That is where the young pakistani kids and adults alike fail to understand the consequences---.

If you look at the neighbor---you will see it was extremely concerned after pak alliance with the US after 9/11---it was shi-tting ice cubes---getting a heart attack that Paf would be equipped with deadly aircraft at a fast pace and the upper hand in power they had would be lost.

But tragically---it was the Paf that sabotaged itself by not getting a potent platform right away---.

These kids are so brainless---so thoughtless---that they say another 72 J10's won't bring any new abilities to the table.

They are so airheaded that they do not have the ability to understand that if you have 4 military divisions of armor---and you add another 4 military divisions of similar armor---for them it means that you have not increased the strength---.

I am astounded at their thoughtlessness and lack of comprehension---and the real problem is they keep of mentioning that---.

If you look at the neighbor's foreign policy actions---you will see a drastic change in attitude and aggression towards pakistan---and as the Paf kept failing in addressing the issue---their aggression increased over the years by a multiplier.

And why this thing has happened---no one has ever confronted the Paf on the public forums---because no know knows or understand their deceipts and how they have decepted pakistan.

Here is an anology---when there is a criminal caught---the police has to interrogate the CRIMINAL to get the real answers---but when the public wants to start quip in and starts justifying on the behalf of the criminal---the criminal does not have to say anything when others are helping his actions.

Every one of these kids have a sob story about lack of funds---and I know that such was not the case---funds were made available to them at all times---.

It is because of these kids and men---that when they accept the lowest level of performance of the Paf---Paf is happy----.

These kids don't understand---that if they got together and formed a front and confronted the Paf as a united voice---the force and power of that voice would shake the workings of the Paf and will get them back to the real world---.

Mr. Khan, kind sir, I am truly grateful to you for this education.

I have no right to pass a judgement on your good country or her good poeple.

I can only say a state that is not alive to today and tomorrow's needs is setting itself up for deep grief.

Sadly, this happens more often than not. History would be boring without fools.

That the eastern hegemon is working on a long term design; this plan should send shivers down the spine of your good planners.


Just look at the ME... it is going to get worse... when pets come back to bite the masters.

Your good country is a central asian and ME regional power. Do your people even see it?

IF your good establishment can offer a security framework to your kind arab bretheren... all your finnacial woes will vanish and your economy will even take off. Yemen has shown their prowess.

I have said somewhere else here to kind PK people that they have convinced themselves of the tales that they are poor.

Psyops by the indian posters have done its work. It is an organised mob, you see. Professional job.

Sad.

I personally find it difficult to connect with kind PK posters. Must be my foreign/alien view or language.

Wish your good country and you, good sir, all the very best.

I am not a technical person. I only understand economy and development. Your views and those of a few other posters have been great education. I can only be grateful.

Hopefully, you will keep tolerating this novice old person.
 
Hi,

A confrontation and a sacrifice is what will start to bring a change.

Indeed---building it yourself is a solution---but filling the hole is more important---.

You have to have the weapons yesterday to fight the war that is coming today---.

The south china seas confrontation is a very good example---only if china had 10 years of breathing room available in the past---it would not have happened.

That is where the young pakistani kids and adults alike fail to understand the consequences---.

If you look at the neighbor---you will see it was extremely concerned after pak alliance with the US after 9/11---it was shi-tting ice cubes---getting a heart attack that Paf would be equipped with deadly aircraft at a fast pace and the upper hand in power they had would be lost.

But tragically---it was the Paf that sabotaged itself by not getting a potent platform right away---.

These kids are so brainless---so thoughtless---that they say another 72 J10's won't bring any new abilities to the table.

They are so airheaded that they do not have the ability to understand that if you have 4 military divisions of armor---and you add another 4 military divisions of similar armor---for them it means that you have not increased the strength---.

I am astounded at their thoughtlessness and lack of comprehension---and the real problem is they keep of mentioning that---.

If you look at the neighbor's foreign policy actions---you will see a drastic change in attitude and aggression towards pakistan---and as the Paf kept failing in addressing the issue---their aggression increased over the years by a multiplier.

And why this thing has happened---no one has ever confronted the Paf on the public forums---because no know knows or understand their deceipts and how they have decepted pakistan.

Here is an anology---when there is a criminal caught---the police has to interrogate the CRIMINAL to get the real answers---but when the public wants to start quip in and starts justifying on the behalf of the criminal---the criminal does not have to say anything when others are helping his actions.

Every one of these kids have a sob story about lack of funds---and I know that such was not the case---funds were made available to them at all times---.

It is because of these kids and men---that when they accept the lowest level of performance of the Paf---Paf is happy----.

These kids don't understand---that if they got together and formed a front and confronted the Paf as a united voice---the force and power of that voice would shake the workings of the Paf and will get them back to the real world---.




Hi,

Trying to be sarcastic---see---you don't understand the load carrying capabilities of trucks and how they works---.

Trucks with that kind of weight capabilities are not sold just like that---so you have to sit and asses the customers wants and needs---. When you are at the upper margin---you go to the next level up---.

Because the customer can come back with his attorney a year later and shove that truck up the dealer's ar-se back---get his money back and damages.

There is not much difference in the price and operation of a two ton and a 3 ton truck---pretty much the same.

But the job that the 3 ton truck can do---the 2 tonner cannot---and never will because of the flexibility of the carrying the extra load.

So---when I am flying 300 miles from the shore line over arabian seas watching my maritimes borders----I would rather have 2 CM400's hanging on my wings rather than one---and 2 to 3 fuel tanks for a good loiter time.

With the 3 ton truck---I can also add an extra fuel tank for longer haul and carry 2 ton load anytime of the day or night---.

But if you are talking about the difference between a 7-10 ton truck to a 2 ton truck---I would say that it costs more---but then the utilities are totally different.

I sincerely hope nobody is listening to you. I sincerely hope your views get buried under the fanboy traffic. You will understand.
 
Hi,

A confrontation and a sacrifice is what will start to bring a change.

Indeed---building it yourself is a solution---but filling the hole is more important---.

You have to have the weapons yesterday to fight the war that is coming today---.

The south china seas confrontation is a very good example---only if china had 10 years of breathing room available in the past---it would not have happened.

That is where the young pakistani kids and adults alike fail to understand the consequences---.

If you look at the neighbor---you will see it was extremely concerned after pak alliance with the US after 9/11---it was shi-tting ice cubes---getting a heart attack that Paf would be equipped with deadly aircraft at a fast pace and the upper hand in power they had would be lost.

But tragically---it was the Paf that sabotaged itself by not getting a potent platform right away---.

These kids are so brainless---so thoughtless---that they say another 72 J10's won't bring any new abilities to the table.

They are so airheaded that they do not have the ability to understand that if you have 4 military divisions of armor---and you add another 4 military divisions of similar armor---for them it means that you have not increased the strength---.

I am astounded at their thoughtlessness and lack of comprehension---and the real problem is they keep of mentioning that---.

If you look at the neighbor's foreign policy actions---you will see a drastic change in attitude and aggression towards pakistan---and as the Paf kept failing in addressing the issue---their aggression increased over the years by a multiplier.

And why this thing has happened---no one has ever confronted the Paf on the public forums---because no know knows or understand their deceipts and how they have decepted pakistan.

Here is an anology---when there is a criminal caught---the police has to interrogate the CRIMINAL to get the real answers---but when the public wants to start quip in and starts justifying on the behalf of the criminal---the criminal does not have to say anything when others are helping his actions.

Every one of these kids have a sob story about lack of funds---and I know that such was not the case---funds were made available to them at all times---.

It is because of these kids and men---that when they accept the lowest level of performance of the Paf---Paf is happy----.

These kids don't understand---that if they got together and formed a front and confronted the Paf as a united voice---the force and power of that voice would shake the workings of the Paf and will get them back to the real world---.




Hi,

Trying to be sarcastic---see---you don't understand the load carrying capabilities of trucks and how they works---.

Trucks with that kind of weight capabilities are not sold just like that---so you have to sit and asses the customers wants and needs---. When you are at the upper margin---you go to the next level up---.

Because the customer can come back with his attorney a year later and shove that truck up the dealer's ar-se back---get his money back and damages.

There is not much difference in the price and operation of a two ton and a 3 ton truck---pretty much the same.

But the job that the 3 ton truck can do---the 2 tonner cannot---and never will because of the flexibility of the carrying the extra load.

So---when I am flying 300 miles from the shore line over arabian seas watching my maritimes borders----I would rather have 2 CM400's hanging on my wings rather than one---and 2 to 3 fuel tanks for a good loiter time.

With the 3 ton truck---I can also add an extra fuel tank for longer haul and carry 2 ton load anytime of the day or night---.

But if you are talking about the difference between a 7-10 ton truck to a 2 ton truck---I would say that it costs more---but then the utilities are totally different.

Exactly thats What You Need to Understand
3th Gen Are these Two Ton Trucks While Thunder is that 7 to 10 T Truck
It was never meant to be a 20 T truck and it was never meant to be Go head 2 head with With 5th gen or 4.5th Gen Birds it was meant to be a Light Weight Air Craft Which Gives PAF Few benefits , Cast , Tech Know how to create a bird , develop Pakistani aeronautic Industry , Which Can Be used and sort of total Independence on western market
as i said earlier Paf wont be fighting all of the IAF aircrafts at the same time
Pakistan land mass is smaller than india and and All the majority assets are deployed closer to border where paf will take less time to response time which can be good
While India has more land mass and it gives them a cover to deploy assests at further from close to action areas sort of a depth defence.
Majority of Indian birds are hi maintenance birds While Pakistan is Going for QR theory to redeploy the birds for extra sorties at less time which can be and will be game changer for any nation.
as for Going in Deep enemy territory was a thing of Past , With Modern Sams it will be a risk unless That Area is Clear.
Pakistan Needs To Protect its Borders which Thunder with F 16 and with Good Mixture of Sams Can do perfectly at thats in current Time
as For Corruption And Military blunders Tell me one single Force in the History of Mankind didn't do , Human make mistakes now rest lies on the shoulder of other Humans how to cover it up Single Money isnt Only thing in work
many things Come into play
E.g Foreign Relations of that country with your country, Spare parts at war time ,
 
Psyops by the indian posters have done its work. It is an organised mob, you see. Professional job.
These words of yours are a gem..
Pardon me for adding that there are other fools and old hags with no technical knowledge who seem to be on sort of a crusade.

If you belong to China than I hope you will understand that power can not be bought 'off the shelf', you have to build your own and then increment upon this again and again. This is the strategy because of which China is now concern number one for the old hegemony. And what we are trying to pursue with Chinese help. Let the IAF try this out 'off the shelf' way and learn this lesson the hard way.

J-10 is a very good and potent platform, its acquisition is neither dead nor out, was just not appropriate at that time for a number of reasons. One being we already had lot of experience with a western platform which we were heading to upgrade and acquire more and even more knowledge of advanced western technologies and even our Chinese friends appreciated and understood our reasons to get hands on a potent western system.

Second, if you are going to build your own system even with JV, you need numbers, at-least 150-200. Not only to reduce costs but also be able to assimilate all or important technologies in that platform. With comparatively a smaller fleet we have, we could not have numbers unless we ditched or delayed a number of acquisitions.

We are getting there, in few years we'll have 8-11 squadrons of JF-17, 5-6 squadrons of F-16. And still 4-5 squadrons left to 'experiment' other platforms, and a number of options and being worked on. We are, like Chinese, not used to blow a lot of hot air, do huge auctions in front of whole world to see.

I sincerely hope nobody is listening to you. I sincerely hope your views get buried under the fanboy traffic. You will understand.

Me too, and I scincerely hope and wish that IAF keeps heading the direction it is heading. Good Luck..
 
Exactly thats What You Need to Understand
3th Gen Are these Two Ton Trucks While Thunder is that 7 to 10 T Truck
It was never meant to be a 20 T truck and it was never meant to be Go head 2 head with With 5th gen or 4.5th Gen Birds it was meant to be a Light Weight Air Craft Which Gives PAF Few benefits , Cast , Tech Know how to create a bird , develop Pakistani aeronautic Industry , Which Can Be used and sort of total Independence on western market
as i said earlier Paf wont be fighting all of the IAF aircrafts at the same time
Pakistan land mass is smaller than india and and All the majority assets are deployed closer to border where paf will take less time to response time which can be good
While India has more land mass and it gives them a cover to deploy assests at further from close to action areas sort of a depth defence.
Majority of Indian birds are hi maintenance birds While Pakistan is Going for QR theory to redeploy the birds for extra sorties at less time which can be and will be game changer for any nation.
as for Going in Deep enemy territory was a thing of Past , With Modern Sams it will be a risk unless That Area is Clear.
Pakistan Needs To Protect its Borders which Thunder with F 16 and with Good Mixture of Sams Can do perfectly at thats in current Time
as For Corruption And Military blunders Tell me one single Force in the History of Mankind didn't do , Human make mistakes now rest lies on the shoulder of other Humans how to cover it up Single Money isnt Only thing in work
many things Come into play
E.g Foreign Relations of that country with your country, Spare parts at war time ,

Stop winging it left and right---.
 
I sincerely hope nobody is listening to you. I sincerely hope your views get buried under the fanboy traffic. You will understand.

Hi,

I have been cursed by APOLLO.

Mr. Khan, kind sir, I am truly grateful to you for this education.

I have no right to pass a judgement on your good country or her good poeple.

I can only say a state that is not alive to today and tomorrow's needs is setting itself up for deep grief.

Sadly, this happens more often than not. History would be boring without fools.

That the eastern hegemon is working on a long term design; this plan should send shivers down the spine of your good planners.


Just look at the ME... it is going to get worse... when pets come back to bite the masters.

Your good country is a central asian and ME regional power. Do your people even see it?

IF your good establishment can offer a security framework to your kind arab bretheren... all your finnacial woes will vanish and your economy will even take off. Yemen has shown their prowess.

I have said somewhere else here to kind PK people that they have convinced themselves of the tales that they are poor.

Psyops by the indian posters have done its work. It is an organised mob, you see. Professional job.

Sad.

I personally find it difficult to connect with kind PK posters. Must be my foreign/alien view or language.

Wish your good country and you, good sir, all the very best.

I am not a technical person. I only understand economy and development. Your views and those of a few other posters have been great education. I can only be grateful.

Hopefully, you will keep tolerating this novice old person.

Hi,

For that reason---I told the generals thru the medium----participation in yemen war is a must---you are being given the control of 5 gulf nations---that was the breaking point---that participation would have broken all the barriers of development for pakistan---because so much money would have poured in and so many jobs created---.

Military action in yemen by pak military would have saved a tremednous amount of yemeni lives---they also would have worked as mediators to solve the problem---.

But pakistan chose to stay to the path of neutrality---meaning cutting of friendship with nations that stood out thru thick and thin with pakistan---.

And first time in reality---they needed the help of pakistani in a true manner---and pakistan let them down---.

The arabs had asked for a security framework---that could have had dividends in the amount of 100 to 150 billion dollars in 5 years period---but pak military refused---.

They could have a force of 150 K troops in that region within 5 years---maybe 10-12 armor division. 150 top tier fighter and strike aircraft---20-50 transportation aircraft---heavy frigates and subs---it was for the taking of pakistan's military---.

Just imagine a 50-75000 strike force sitting in yemen covering our neighbors flank from yemen and Oman.

5 sqdrn's of SU34----10 sqdrns of SU35 or Typhoon or Rafale----5 to 8 modern frigate of 6000-8000 tonnage---another 6-8 subs----between 20-30 smaller frigates and missile boats---in the 5 years planning---would have created millions of jobs---.

General Raheel never had the vision of a conquering warrior---happy with his local battlefield experties.
 
Hi,

I have been cursed by APOLLO.

Subtle and apt, Master.

Hi,

For that reason---I told the generals thru the medium----participation in yemen war is a must---you are being given the control of 5 gulf nations---that was the breaking point---that participation would have broken all the barriers of development for pakistan---because so much money would have poured in and so many jobs created---.

Military action in yemen by pak military would have saved a tremednous amount of yemeni lives---they also would have worked as mediators to solve the problem---.

But pakistan chose to stay to the path of neutrality---meaning cutting of friendship with nations that stood out thru thick and thin with pakistan---.

And first time in reality---they needed the help of pakistani in a true manner---and pakistan let them down---.

The arabs had asked for a security framework---that could have had dividends in the amount of 100 to 150 billion dollars in 5 years period---but pak military refused---.

They could have a force of 150 K troops in that region within 5 years---maybe 10-12 armor division. 150 top tier fighter and strike aircraft---20-50 transportation aircraft---heavy frigates and subs---it was for the taking of pakistan's military---.

Just imagine a 50-75000 strike force sitting in yemen covering our neighbors flank from yemen and Oman.

5 sqdrn's of SU34----10 sqdrns of SU35 or Typhoon or Rafale----5 to 8 modern frigate of 6000-8000 tonnage---another 6-8 subs----between 20-30 smaller frigates and missile boats---in the 5 years planning---would have created millions of jobs---.

General Raheel never had the vision of a conquering warrior---happy with his local battlefield experties.

Sir,

The problem here is that Paf has been caught in trap by it own lies---.

Bad decisions---incompetence---lies---that is what is haunting the Paf at this time---.

But the unique thing about the Paf is that it lies like what the jews say---lie so many times and with so much conviction---that people believe in it as the truth.

Shouldn't that be Goebbels?

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.
The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
 

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