J-10 has been deployed in Xizang (Tibet)

[Martian2]

thanks for the laughs... now post something SENSIBLE ..

My post is full of facts and reputable citations. It is an objective analysis.

----------

China's J-10A Vigorous Dragon is superior to French Rafale

China's J-10A flies higher, faster, and carry longer-range PL-12 AAM (air-to-air missile) than French Rafale.

The J-10A carries four PL-12 missiles with 70+ km range that can easily shoot down a French Rafale carrying shorter 50km range MICA missiles.

China has deployed its J-10A fighters in Tibet along the Indian border. India is buying French Rafale fighters to counter the Chinese J-10A Vigorous Dragons. A comparison shows the Chinese J-10A to be superior to the French Rafale.

The J-10A has a service ceiling of 18,000m. The French Rafale has a lower service ceiling of 16,800m. For combat, the same missile launched at a higher altitude (such as 18,000m) will fly further.

For within-visual-range (WVR) combat, a J-10A can circle above and swoop down with guns blazing on a helpless French Rafale. On the other hand, a French Rafale cannot engage a high-flying J-10A at 18,000m (which is 1,200m beyond the French Rafale's service ceiling).

The J-10A can carry four PL-12 beyond-visual-range (BVR) missiles with 70+ km range. However, the MICA missile carried by the French Rafale has a much shorter 50km range (according to GlobalSecurity).

In fairness, I have elected not to cite the higher 100km range for the PL-12 (see International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > The Air Balance on the Taiwan Strait).

The J-10A has a faster "maximum speed of Mach 2.2 at altitude" than the significantly slower "Mach 1.8+" for the French Rafale. This means the J-10A can fire its four PL-12 missiles at a French Rafale at 60km and fly home safely. The French Rafale's slower speed means it cannot chase down a J-10A.

The final point is the deadliness of China's PL-12 missiles.

Advanced but Unproved Chinese BVR Medium Range Missile SD-10

"Its seven recent test firings all hit the targets.
...
Experts believe that domestic SD-10's performance has surpassed the U.S. AIM-120A/B, Russian R-77 and the French MICA (Missile d'Interception et de Combat Aerien), etc., and close to the AIM-120C."

[Note: PL-12/SD-10 refer to the same missile.]

----------

References (for Wikipedia articles, see primary source footnotes):

Chengdu J-10 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dassault Rafale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mica

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

This is only part of our national defence strategy, it is not aiming against any particular country.

 

[Martian2]

Chinese AESA radar can detect a "clean" French Rafale at 140 to 200km range

China has KJ-2000 AWACS and KJ-200 AEW&C with AESA radar. There is already an ESA radar for Chinese fighter jets.

The KJ-200 AEW&C and KJ-2000 AWACS can detect a "clean" French Rafale at 140 to 200km range. This information can be transmitted to a J-10A, which can shoot down a French Rafale from 70km away.

Of course, in real combat, a "dirty" French Rafale will carry missiles, bombs, and/or drop tanks. Since the Rafale has no internal weapon bays, it will be detected far in excess of the 140 to 200km range for a "clean" Rafale.

China's KJ-2000 AWACS can detect a "clean" French Rafale at 200km. The citation is under "Section X" of Dr. Somnath's thread on French Rafale. I am assuming KJ-2000 has comparable performance to E3-C AWACS.

China's KJ-000 AEW&C can detect a "clean" French Rafale at 140km. The citation is under "Section X" of Dr. Somnath's thread on French Rafale. I am assuming KJ-200 has comparable performance to E2-C Hawkeye.

China's electronically scanned array (ESA) radar. This could be AESA or PESA. It doesn't really matter. China possesses expertise with AESA technology in the KJ-2000 and KJ-200. The only issues are miniaturization, low-cost production, and reliability. Even if the depicted ESA radar is PESA, China is only one upgrade away from an AESA radar for the J-10.

----------

Citation:

Illustration from "Section X" of Dr. Somnath's thread on a "clean" French Rafale, which is not carrying missiles, bombs, or drop tanks. A "dirty" Rafale would have a RCS about ten times higher than the illustration.

 

[Martian2]

My citations are from highly respected and reputable sources

1. My citation for MICA range of 50km is from the highly respected GlobalSecurity.

2. Most citations for the PL-12 are 70km+. (See four primary sources at Wikipedia article: PL-12 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

3. The highly respected Richard Fisher at International Assessment and Strategy Center claims the PL-12 has a range of 100km. This estimate is probably the most accurate. He has direct knowledge (see footnote 22 below).

Richard Fisher at International Assessment and Strategy Center (IASC) claims the PL-12 has a range of 100km.

In footnote 22, Richard Fisher at IASC explains the sources of his 100km range estimate for PL-12.

 

[DrSomnath999]

My post is full of facts and reputable citations. It is an objective analysis.

I want to mention the "J-10A vs. French Rafale" comparison post is a response to Dr. Somnath. On many forums, he has been making the claim that the French Rafale is superior to the J-10A. I had to write this rebuttal to set the record straight.

----------

China's J-10A Vigorous Dragon is superior to French Rafale

China's J-10A flies higher, faster, and carry longer-range PL-12 AAM (air-to-air missile) than French Rafale.

The J-10A carries four PL-12 missiles with 70+ km range that can easily shoot down a French Rafale carrying shorter 50km range MICA missiles.

China has deployed its J-10A fighters along the Indian border. India is buying French Rafale fighters to counter the Chinese J-10A Vigorous Dragons. A comparison shows the Chinese J-10A to be superior to the French Rafale.

The J-10A has a service ceiling of 18,000m. The French Rafale has a lower service ceiling of 16,800m. For combat, the same missile launched at a higher altitude (such as 18,000m) will fly further.

For within-visual-range (WVR) combat, a J-10A can circle above and swoop down with guns blazing on a helpless French Rafale. On the other hand, a French Rafale cannot engage a high-flying J-10A at 18,000m (which is 1,200m beyond the French Rafale's service ceiling).

The J-10A can carry four PL-12 beyond-visual-range (BVR) missiles with 70+ km range. However, the MICA missile carried by the French Rafale has a much shorter 50km range (according to GlobalSecurity).

In fairness, I have elected not to cite the higher 100km range for the PL-12 (see International Assessment and Strategy Center > Research > The Air Balance on the Taiwan Strait).

The J-10A has a faster "maximum speed of Mach 2.2 at altitude" than the significantly slower "Mach 1.8+" for the French Rafale. This means the J-10A can fire its four PL-12 missiles at a French Rafale at 60km and fly home safely. The French Rafale's slower speed means it cannot chase down a J-10A.

The final point is the deadliness of China's PL-12 missiles.

Advanced but Unproved Chinese BVR Medium Range Missile SD-10

"Its seven recent test firings all hit the targets.
...
Experts believe that domestic SD-10's performance has surpassed the U.S. AIM-120A/B, Russian R-77 and the French MICA (Missile d'Interception et de Combat Aerien), etc., and close to the AIM-120C."

[Note: PL-12/SD-10 refer to the same missile.]

----------

References (for Wikipedia articles, see primary source footnotes):

Chengdu J-10 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dassault Rafale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mica

LLLOLLLZZ DUDE , plz educate urself properly MICA's maximum range is 60 km .

Mica RF
But some websites/forums even claim maximum aerodynamic range is 80km but cant be verified though

MICA missile for upgraded Mirage 2000 - SP's Aviation
& u forgot another great BVRAAM it's going to have METEOR ramjet BVRAAM by 2015 check it's range & capabilty

but unfortuantely SD 10 's range is 60-70km CHECK !!! ,

Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force

& BTW u dont know nothing RAFALE's Electronic warfare capabilty thanks to it's 5th GEN SPECTRA EW suite it is not so easy to
shoot down as it looks to U.

Infact no 4th or 4.5 gen chinese Jet is comparable to rafale i throw an an open challenge to u if u got balls then start a new
thread rafale VS any x ,y z 4th or 4.5 gen fighter in CAF i would show u why rafale rulez .
DO U GET ME

 

[DrSomnath999]

Chinese AESA radar can detect a "clean" French Rafale at 140 to 200km range

China has KJ-2000 AWACS and KJ-200 AEW&C with AESA radar. There is already an ESA radar for Chinese fighter jets.

The KJ-200 AEW&C and KJ-2000 AWACS can detect a "clean" French Rafale at 140 to 200km range. This information can be transmitted to a J-10A, which can shoot down a French Rafale from 70km away.


Of course, in real combat, a "dirty" French Rafale will carry missiles, bombs, and/or drop tanks. Since the Rafale has no internal weapon bays, it will be detected far in excess of the 140 to 200km range for a "clean" Rafale.

China's KJ-2000 AWACS can detect a "clean" French Rafale at 200km. The citation is under "Section X" of Dr. Somnath's thread on French Rafale. I am assuming KJ-2000 has comparable performance to E3-C AWACS.

China's KJ-000 AEW&C can detect a "clean" French Rafale at 140km. The citation is under "Section X" of Dr. Somnath's thread on French Rafale. I am assuming KJ-200 has comparable performance to E2-C Hawkeye.

China's electronically scanned array (ESA) radar. This could be AESA or PESA. It doesn't really matter. China possesses expertise with AESA technology in the KJ-2000 and KJ-200. The only issues are miniaturization, low-cost production, and reliability. Even if the depicted ESA radar is PESA, China is only one upgrade away from an AESA radar for the J-10.

----------

Citation:

Illustration from "Section X" of Dr. Somnath's thread on a "clean" French Rafale, which is not carrying missiles, bombs, or drop tanks. A "dirty" Rafale would have a RCS about ten times higher than the illustration.

LLLOLLLZ u brought awacs in to the comparision as if we dont have awacs & J10 is a stealth plane
Oh boy!! india has already teamed up with Russia to built KS 100 novator 200-300 km anti radiation missile to destroy awacs &
once it's get destroyed J10 would be forced to use it's radar & once it turn's up it's radar rafale's SPECTRA EW suite would
passively detect it & cue it's MICA or Meteor missile without turning on it's aesa radar for stealth reason .DO u get me know



INFACT IT"S AN INSULT TO RAFALE COMPARING IT WITH J10

 

[DrSomnath999]

1. My citation of MICA range of 50km is from the highly respected GlobalSecurity.


2. Most citations for the PL-12 is 70km+. (See four primary sources at Wikipedia article: PL-12 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

3. The highly respected Richard Fisher at International Assessment and Strategy Center claims the PL-12 has a range of 100km.

Richard Fisher at International Assessment and Strategy Center (IASC) claims the PL-12 has a range of 100km.

In footnote 22, Richard Fisher at IASC explains the sources of his 100km range estimate for PL-12.

LLLOLLLLZ ur citation sources are as nonsense like U
MBDA itself states MICA range is 60km &
& meanwhile louyang & CNair itself stating PL 12 's range is 60 -70km & u r beleiving it's 100km as western sources beleive it .
LLOLLLZ thats so funny

Citing sources from Global security & wikipedia & u want to prove ur claim is absolute stupidity

 

[InD!@N rEv()!_Ut!()n]

which one is better J-10 or sukhoi-30 MKI

 

[DrSomnath999]

which one is better J-10 or sukhoi-30 MKI

well india is going to upgrade SU 30 mki to super SU -30 then it goings to have AESA radar and slight reduction in RCS by some increase in composite or RAM coating .

Only slight advantage J10 has over SU 30 mki is lower radar cross section compare to SU 30 mki & the rest thing SU -30 MKi is
clearly superior to J10 .

 

[Major Shaitan Singh]

Chinese AESA radar can detect a "clean" French Rafale at 140 to 200km range

China has KJ-2000 AWACS and KJ-200 AEW&C with AESA radar. There is already an ESA radar for Chinese fighter jets.

The KJ-200 AEW&C and KJ-2000 AWACS can detect a "clean" French Rafale at 140 to 200km range. This information can be transmitted to a J-10A, which can shoot down a French Rafale from 70km away.

Of course, in real combat, a "dirty" French Rafale will carry missiles, bombs, and/or drop tanks. Since the Rafale has no internal weapon bays, it will be detected far in excess of the 140 to 200km range for a "clean" Rafale.

China's KJ-2000 AWACS can detect a "clean" French Rafale at 200km. The citation is under "Section X" of Dr. Somnath's thread on French Rafale. I am assuming KJ-2000 has comparable performance to E3-C AWACS.

China's KJ-000 AEW&C can detect a "clean" French Rafale at 140km. The citation is under "Section X" of Dr. Somnath's thread on French Rafale. I am assuming KJ-200 has comparable performance to E2-C Hawkeye.

China's electronically scanned array (ESA) radar. This could be AESA or PESA. It doesn't really matter. China possesses expertise with AESA technology in the KJ-2000 and KJ-200. The only issues are miniaturization, low-cost production, and reliability. Even if the depicted ESA radar is PESA, China is only one upgrade away from an AESA radar for the J-10.

----------
.

Do Martians have wet Dreams ?

Do you know anything about Combat Formation and penetrate enemy defence.
How can you guess that Rafale will go alone .... you forgot about some of the aircraft that we own.

SU 30MKI
Rafale
MiG 29K
LCA
with Phalcon AEW&C or Indigenous DRDO AEW&C

Astra[4] (Sanskrit: अस्त्र, Astra "Weapon") is an active radar homing beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM)
The maximum range of Astra is 110 km in head-on chase and 20 km in tail chase

Russian R77

They will be backed by Akash and SU 300PMU which are already stationed their.

Now tell me who has the Advantage..... Have you ever visited LAC Indian Airfield are higher than those of Chinese

 

[antonius123]

Do Martians have wet Dreams ?

Do you know anything about Combat Formation and penetrate enemy defence.
How can you guess that Rafale will go alone .... you forgot about some of the aircraft that we own.

SU 30MKI
Rafale
MiG 29K
LCA
with Phalcon AEW&C or Indigenous DRDO AEW&C

Astra[4] (Sanskrit: अस्त्र, Astra "Weapon") is an active radar homing beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM)
The maximum range of Astra is 110 km in head-on chase and 20 km in tail chase

Russian R77

They will be backed by Akash and SU 300PMU which are already stationed their.

Now tell me who has the Advantage..... Have you ever visited LAC Indian Airfield are higher than those of Chinese

Are you sure that China's awacs can not make them blind as they did on Vietnam SU-30MK2?

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Are you sure that China's awacs can not make them blind as they did on Vietnam SU-30MK2?

Are you forgetting something that Indian SU-30 and Israeli Phalcon are also their in Indian side with 400 KM Range ... what makes you think when IAF fly that plane it didn't blind Chinese AWCAS and J-10 both ?

After all whole world knows Israeli Electronics are far ahead then Chinese or any other country

 

[antonius123]

Are you forgetting something that Indian SU-30 and Israeli Phalcon are also their in Indian side with 400 KM Range ... what makes you think when IAF fly that plane it didn't blind Chinese AWCAS and J-10 both ?

Tell me how Indian SU-30 and Israeli Phalcon with 400 km radar range will blind China AESA AWACS?

And if china's awacs could blind Vietnam's SU-30MK2 why cant it do the same thing on your MKI?

After all whole world knows Israeli Electronics are far ahead then Chinese or any other country

You are again talking your FAITH, not FACT;
Please bring me the solid reference/evidence that support your claim above.

 

[peaceful]

Tell me how Indian SU-30 and Israeli Phalcon with 400 km radar range will blind China AESA AWACS?

And if china's awacs could blind Vietnam's SU-30MK2 why cant it do the same thing on your MKI?





You are again talking your FAITH, not FACT;
Please bring me the solid reference/evidence that support your claim above.

vietnamese national average IQ: 95
india's national average IQ: 85

problem solved.

Are you forgetting something that Indian SU-30 and Israeli Phalcon are also their in Indian side with 400 KM Range ... what makes you think when IAF fly that plane it didn't blind Chinese AWCAS and J-10 both ?

After all whole world knows Israeli Electronics are far ahead then Chinese or any other country

400km or 50km, that is not important.

New Delhi can't move, it is 300km away from Chinese border and within the range of WS-2 rockets.

keep that in mind before you troll.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Tell me how Indian SU-30 and Israeli Phalcon with 400 km radar range will blind China AESA AWACS?

And if china's awacs could blind Vietnam's SU-30MK2 why cant it do the same thing on your MKI?





You are again talking your FAITH, not FACT;
Please bring me the solid reference/evidence that support your claim above.

World knows someone Hit the Syrian Reactor and gone , no one knows till who , how, what happened? One High IQ person can tell that Electronics Warfare involved in that which make radar ineffective.

2) Israeli rescue from Africa , where it Made Secure Tunnel under Radar waves to travel undetected.

Israeli Electronics Warfare equipment used in both SU-30 and Indian AWCAS.

It will be foolish to tell /ask some to prove if fish swim in water....