J-10 a strategic choice for Bangladesh Air Force

[IblinI]

Meanwhile building Airforce is the most expensive business for any Armed Forces

Doesn't even come close to building a blue water Navy.

 

[UKBengali]

Set aside from that, what I can see is Bangladesh is not much adamant to build their armed forces and provided sufficient funds for it. Meanwhile building Airforce is the most expensive business for any Armed Forces

That is not exactly true.

Let us compare how defence spending has gone up in last 10 years between BD and Indonesia to see what is the trend:

BD:

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/BGD/bangladesh/military-spending-defense-budget

Indonesia:

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IDN/indonesia/military-spending-defense-budget

BD defence spending in last 10 years has gone up by around 4 times compared to 2.5 times for Indonesia.

Both countries are pretty much keeping defence spending same as a proportion of GDP but BD is a faster growing economy and so we have seen much larger proportionate increase in defence spending

10 years ago, BD used to spend 1/3rd of what Indonesia did on defence and now it is 1/2 - we can expect to see similar changes over this decade. It is perfectly possible by 2035, BD and Indonesia will spend the same amount on defence.

Like I have said multiple times if the BD economy grows as fast as expected a lot of money will become available over time to buy large amounts of sophisticated weapons systems.

 

[Nike]

That is not exactly true.

Let us compare how defence spending has gone up in last 10 years between BD and Indonesia to see what is the trend:

BD:

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/BGD/bangladesh/military-spending-defense-budget

View attachment 627524


Indonesia:

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IDN/indonesia/military-spending-defense-budget

View attachment 627526


BD defence spending in last 10 years has gone up by around 4 times compared to 2.5 times for Indonesia.

Both countries are pretty much keeping defence spending same as a proportion of GDP but BD is a faster growing economy and so we have seen much larger proportionate increase in defence spending

10 years ago, BD used to spend 1/3rd of what Indonesia did on defence and now it is 1/2 - we can expect to see similar changes over this decade. It is perfectly possible by 2035, BD and Indonesia will spend the same amount on defence.

Like I have said multiple times if the BD economy grows as fast as expected a lot of money will become available over time to buy large amounts of sophisticated weapons systems.

Indonesia doesnt see military spending as priority especially by importing arms, but as support for indigenous defense industry we already had. That's why you will see altough Indonesia spending less compared other in same values but actually gained more arms and hardware due to the existence of established defense industry and all of the cluster and needed components maker which capable to build from APC, MLRS, helicopter, Warships in class of frigate and corvettes, small arms, mortar, LPD, rocket, ASW/MPA aircraft, medium and light class lift aircraft, and now even we are starting to build our own submarine.

BTW, the effectiveness of our military spending and system procurement is quite far apart, thanks in regard to the open budgeting system we had.

 

[vishwambhar]

Funny GDP boy.
With 70 bn GDP, Myn had managed to acquire a wide range of military hardwares.
Some major acquisitions between 2010 and 2020 are

For Air Force
20 - MiG 29SE
6 - Su 30 SME
16 - JF 17M
16 - Yak 130
20 - Grop TP 120
2 - ATR 42 MP
12 - CH 3A UAV
A number of helos.
Production line for K 8W
Production line for KS 1B Medium Range SAM.
Production line for SA 16 SAM.
Production line for 25 mm AA Cannon.
Overhaul facilities for Mig 29 and Mi 17.

For Navy
1 - Kilo Submarine
1 - Makassar class LPD
5 - Frigates
1 - Corvette
10 - FAC Missile
6 - Super Dvora Mk 3
Expension of Shipyard
3 - Battries of Costal Defence AShM
6 - S 100 Camcopter

While BD was sitting idle and talking loudly about FG 2030, Myanmar was working and moving ahead.

Yes.... that's why I said....
Myanmar is a guy who sweats in gym regularly..... whereas couch potato Bangladesh does nothing but to whine and cry....

 

[Aung Zaya]

You cannot afford that with an economy of only 70 billion US dollars.

There is only so much the generals can take from your small economy.

Well. Wait and see. Dont forget bd corruption index is worse than us. So may be ur general will have higher chance. Even now we can see taking higher budget but lack of improvement in ur af.

 

[ghost250]

myanmar army guy who regularly sweats in gym

@vishwambhar

 

[Aung Zaya]

True they seem more clued up than BAF top brass.

However that list is pure fantasy as they cannot afford it.

I expect 6 more SU-30s and that is about it for the MAF for some time.

Dude was talking about also replacing all their 20 F-7s/12 A5s and license producing the JF-17 Block 3. Yeah JF-17 Block 3 may be cheaper than Western fighters like F-16 Block 70 but it still comes with expensive stuff like AESA radars and PL-15 missiles.

Well. He asked our Airforce requirement. So this is just an answer what we need to do within this decade. The name of fighter may be varied according to availability of budget.

You have to understand that Myanmar does have a black economy that their Military has a direct stake in. So don't fall for statistics and numbers open to public.

The Burmese military junta needs military strength to maintain their hold. Which is why they are willing and able to fund these procurements.

And please stop quoting economic growth of BD. It makes no difference if the leadership is not keen to make bold decisions.

Bangladesh should have gone all out for J 10s with ToT, for single engine MRCA platform a long time ago.

To be fair to BAF on the other hand, we needed more trained pilots, so the trainers and the infrastructure like radar coverage of the entire country was necessary. But the progress has been very slow to everyone's liking.



What kind of fighter bombers are you guys looking at to replace A5s? Given your insurgency problems, they must have been using A5s frequently.

Potential candidates are Su-25 or JH-7. But it depends on many factors.

Indonesia doesnt see military spending as priority especially by importing arms, but as support for indigenous defense industry we already had. That's why you will see altough Indonesia spending less compared other in same values but actually gained more arms and hardware due to the existence of established defense industry and all of the cluster and needed components maker which capable to build from APC, MLRS, helicopter, Warships in class of frigate and corvettes, small arms, mortar, LPD, rocket, ASW/MPA aircraft, medium and light class lift aircraft, and now even we are starting to build our own submarine.

BTW, the effectiveness of our military spending and system procurement is quite far apart, thanks in regard to the open budgeting system we had.

That's what we are following. I bet Myanmar is following Indonesia way. Developing own defense industry will gain many benefits such as less cost compared to imported one. but most of BD's hardware are imported ones. They even have to import even basic things like ammo. Instead, majority what we used are manufactured locally. and they wonder how can we manage this tiny economy.

 

[ghost250]

Well. He asked our Airforce requirement. So this is just an answer what we need to do within this decade. The name of fighter may be varied according to availability of budget.


Potential candidates are Su-25 or JH-7. But it depends on many factors.



That's what we are following. I bet Myanmar is following Indonesia way. Developing own defense industry will gain many benefits such as less cost compared to imported one. but most of BD's hardware are imported ones. They even have to import even basic things like ammo. Instead, majority what we used are manufactured locally. and they wonder how can we manage this tiny economy.

not everything ,bangladesh ordnance factory manufactures differnent types of ammunition nd hardware..such as bd-08 assault rifle,bd-14 gpmg,bd-08 light machine gun,different types of ammunition for assault rifle nd machine guns,different types of chinese mortar systems,shells,105mm artillery ammunition,fn-16 manpads,now taking projects to manufacture L-16 81mm mortar system,ws-22s rocket artillery,155mm artillery shells(basically these r now in implementation phase)..

 

[UKBengali]

Indonesia doesnt see military spending as priority especially by importing arms, but as support for indigenous defense industry we already had. That's why you will see altough Indonesia spending less compared other in same values but actually gained more arms and hardware due to the existence of established defense industry and all of the cluster and needed components maker which capable to build from APC, MLRS, helicopter, Warships in class of frigate and corvettes, small arms, mortar, LPD, rocket, ASW/MPA aircraft, medium and light class lift aircraft, and now even we are starting to build our own submarine.

BTW, the effectiveness of our military spending and system procurement is quite far apart, thanks in regard to the open budgeting system we had.

That is another point.

Both India and Pakistan also only increased defence spending by 2× in last 10 years.
Are they also not serious about defence?

I just proved that BD defence spending is rocketing upwards in last 10 years when you said BD is not serious about defence spending.
It relies on it's high economic growth to ramp up defence spending and so BD is serious about building a stronger military. It sees little need to increase share of defence spending when it's higher economic growth will do the same over time.

BD will also over time make more of it's own arms at home but of course Indonesia is ahead now.

That's what we are following. I bet Myanmar is following Indonesia way. Developing own defense industry will gain many benefits such as less cost compared to imported one. but most of BD's hardware are imported ones. They even have to import even basic things like ammo. Instead, majority what we used are manufactured locally. and they wonder how can we manage this tiny economy.

Answer already given by @ghost250

BD is slowly ramping up it's indigenous defence production. Myanmar is not that much ahead of BD in indigenous defence production like Indonesia is.

Next on the list is to build 6 air defence frigates over the next 10 years. It will save hundreds of millions of US dollars in total cost than if they were imported.

BD already manufactures most of it' s smaller warships now anyway through either indigenous efforts or ToT.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Mig 29 is not up to the jobs that's why many countries starting to retire them earlier

India is getting them from Russia

 

[Aung Zaya]

Funny GDP boy.
With 70 bn GDP, Myn had managed to acquire a wide range of military hardwares.
Some major acquisitions between 2010 and 2020 are

For Air Force
20 - MiG 29SE
6 - Su 30 SME
16 - JF 17M
16 - Yak 130
20 - Grop TP 120
2 - ATR 42 MP
12 - CH 3A UAV
A number of helos.
Production line for K 8W
Production line for KS 1B Medium Range SAM.
Production line for SA 16 SAM.
Production line for 25 mm AA Cannon.
Overhaul facilities for Mig 29 and Mi 17.

For Navy
1 - Kilo Submarine
1 - Makassar class LPD
5 - Frigates
1 - Corvette
10 - FAC Missile
6 - Super Dvora Mk 3
Expension of Shipyard
3 - Battries of Costal Defence AShM
6 - S 100 Camcopter

While BD was sitting idle and talking loudly about FG 2030, Myanmar was working and moving ahead.

u missed the following projects as well.
1. production line for CH-3/CH-4
2. assembling line for BTR-4
3. production line for light amoured vehicles.( U know what )
4. development of light tank
5. Induction of TOS-1A
6. current procurement of SY-400

 

[vishwambhar]

India is getting them from Russia

Yes we have MIG 21 and MIG 29 in hundreds..... this is our strategy to win wars with numbers just like Soviets.....

Imagine Bangladesh goes for costly shiny Typhoons or Super Hornets and we blow them up on the ground itself by swarming their skies with dirt cheap 100s of MIG 21 fish beds....

 

[Indos]

That is not exactly true.

Let us compare how defence spending has gone up in last 10 years between BD and Indonesia to see what is the trend:

BD:

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/BGD/bangladesh/military-spending-defense-budget

View attachment 627524


Indonesia:

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IDN/indonesia/military-spending-defense-budget

View attachment 627526


BD defence spending in last 10 years has gone up by around 4 times compared to 2.5 times for Indonesia.

Both countries are pretty much keeping defence spending same as a proportion of GDP but BD is a faster growing economy and so we have seen much larger proportionate increase in defence spending

10 years ago, BD used to spend 1/3rd of what Indonesia did on defence and now it is 1/2 - we can expect to see similar changes over this decade. It is perfectly possible by 2035, BD and Indonesia will spend the same amount on defence.

Like I have said multiple times if the BD economy grows as fast as expected a lot of money will become available over time to buy large amounts of sophisticated weapons systems.

I can say that until Jokowi term finishes (2024), I believe our defense budget will not exceed current budget of around 9 billion USD. And as Covid 19 become an outbreak in Indonesia and also many part of the world, that figure is even getting slashed now.

I will try to explain why our defense budget will be stagnant for the next 4-5 years.

Current government make several new policies and program in its second term. They create new welfare government program like unemployment benefit and also program like new capital building, and also lower corporate tax. Those program will surely affect the budget heavily for the next 4-5 years.

Dont forget that for the last 5 years, Indonesia is under Jokowi administration who focuses more on infrastructure and village development, those things absorb many of our budget. We can say that he focus much on economy and doesnt put too much attention on our defense. I will try to explain why the policy is like that.

What I can say is that many Indonesia strategic inside the government look our major threat is more on economy rather than anything else, particularly in relation with trade with China. We posted first trade deficit in 2012 where China imported goods as the main reason of it. So it is understandable for our current government to spend more on infrastructure to make our economy become more competitive. Lowering corporate tax is also part of the strategy.

We try to compete with China in economic sector with the goal to make our trade with China getting more balance or even scores surplus. I dont think it is wise for Indonesia to spend much budget in defense to balance China in SCS while in other hand our economy lost its competitiveness with China and import many product from that country. Our defense spending will not be sustainable in the long run if our economy is out compete by them. So we try to fix the underlying problem on our economy first before spending more on defense.

We dont know what is the strategy of the new leader after Jokowi administration finishes its final term in November 2024, but as infrastructure will relatively be quite good at that period so I can expect that new administration have more ease to use state budget for other things like defense procurement.

 

[MINN]

Well. He asked our Airforce requirement. So this is just an answer what we need to do within this decade. The name of fighter may be varied according to availability of budget.

Potential candidates are Su-25 or JH-7. But it depends on many factors.



That's what we are following. I bet Myanmar is following Indonesia way. Developing own defense industry will gain many benefits such as less cost compared to imported one. but most of BD's hardware are imported ones. They even have to import even basic things like ammo. Instead, majority what we used are manufactured locally. and they wonder how can we manage this tiny economy.

Su-34 would be nice compare to su-25 or JH-7.
Also don't forget the production line of MA series.

 

[VikingRaider]

also most of the members here seems to believe that India will not allow Bangladesh to go for F16 but will have no problem with Bangladesh going for Typhoon which is far far superior to any F16 block..... funny thinking......

Firstly India is no body to allow us anything . Secondly if even India has any problem , we do not care !