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It’s time the US started listening to Turkey

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It’s time the US started listening to Turkey

By DAVID P. GOLDMAN, Columnist DECEMBER 2, 2016 1:00 PM (UTC+8)

With Turkey’s help, Russia is conducting direct negotiations with Syrian rebels, the Financial Times reported on Thursday. The FT wrote that one opposition figure, when asked why he thought Russia would seek a deal with the rebels just as Assad appeared to be winning, said Moscow was “essentially saying: ‘Screw you, Americans.'”

Turkey in effect is saying the same thing to Washington. The London-based newspaper explains:

Four opposition members from rebel-held northern Syria told the Financial Times that Turkey has been brokering talks in Ankara with Moscow, whose military intervention on the side of President Bashar al-Assad has helped turn the five-year civil war in the regime’s favor. Russia is now backing regime efforts to recapture the rebels’ last urban stronghold in Syria’s second city of Aleppo.

“The Russians and Turks are talking without the US now. It [Washington] is completely shut out of these talks, and doesn’t even know what’s going on in Ankara,” said one opposition figure, who asked not to be identified.

This puts into context the kerfuffle over General Michael Flynn’s Election Day recommendation that the United States pay more attention to Turkey’s point of view, especially in relation to a home-grown Islamist movement with terrorist overtones. Flynn, the designated National Security Adviser for the Trump administration, was formerly head of the Defense Intelligence Agency and the first senior intelligence official to warn of the emergence of ISIS at a time when President Obama dismissed the Islamist movement as “junior varsity.”

In particular, the general cited the Turkish government’s consternation at America’s refusal to extradite the exiled Islamist leader Fetullah Gülen, who fled a Turkish charge of subversion and has been living in Pennsylvania since 1999. Last July 15 a group of Turkish officers apparently loyal to Gülen attempted to overthrow the government of President Tayyip Recep Erdogan. As early as 2008 Michael Rubin, a Middle East expert now at the American Enterprise Institute, warned that Gülen would use millions of followers and billions of dollars in business assets to launch an Islamist coup. That is what Gülen apparently did last July, and Flynn argued that the United States should back Turkey’s elected leader against the coup plotters.

That seemingly uncontroversial suggestion triggered a sewage storm.
Curiously, Michael Rubin came out as one of the fundamentalist leader’s strongest supporters against the Erdogan government, alongside Commentary Magazine’s Noah Rothman. Both attacked Flynn for supporting the Erdogan government against the Gülenist attempted putsch. Rothman added that Flynn was a “dubious choice” for National Security Adviser because his consulting company had had a Turkish corporate client, suggesting that Flynn’s views on Turkey raised a “conflict of interest.”

Commentary Magazine, formerly a conservative voice in public affairs, backed Hillary Clinton’s candidacy against Donald Trump, and the allegation that Flynn’s views were shaped by a single consulting client might be dismissed as ordinary political slander.

There is a darker side to the story. Gülen has prominent American supporters in politics as well as the intelligence community. Some of this appears to have been purchased by the usual means. Gülen’s followers have cultivated close relationships to the Clinton Foundation. Gülen operative Recep Özkan, the former head of the Turkish Cultural Center in New York City, is listed as a Clinton Foundation donor of between US$500,000 and US$1 million in 2015. Özkan was a finance co-chair for Ready For Hillary, which later became ReadyPac, a Clinton-allied political action committee. As Flynn observed in his November 8 op-ed, Bill Clinton called the Turkish fundamentalist leader “my friend” in a video broadly circulated by the Gülen organization.

More interesting is the Gülen lobby in the US intelligence community. Among former US intelligence officials, former CIA station chief in Afghanistan Graham Fuller is Gülen’s most enthusiastic defender. Fuller claims that the Turkish leader is just the sort of moderate Islamist voice that the United States should cultivate. Fuller was the CIA’s point man for the Middle East and South Asia from 1982 to 1986, when the CIA armed Afghan Islamists against the Soviet occupiers of Afghanistan. In 1986 he became Vice-Chairman of the CIA’s National Intelligence Council.

Using radical Muslims to destabilize Russia is the fixed idea of Fuller’s career. When Afghan jihadis brought down Soviet helicopters during the 1980s with covert help from the CIA, the tactic was effective against the Soviet Union, although it had the unfortunate side-effect of training Islamist terrorists like Osama bin Laden who later would attack the United States. Full disclosure: as a 1980s Cold Warrior I think Fuller and his colleagues did the right thing at the time.

But Fuller remains on a mission to undermine Russia. Indeed, it has become a family matter: after the Boston bombing, investigative reporter Daniel Hopsicker revealed that Fuller’s daughter, Samantha Ankara Fuller, was married in the 1990s to Ruslan Tsarni (born Tsarnaev), the uncle of the brothers who carried out the attack, Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev.

Evidently, Fuller supports Fetullah Gülen because the Turkish imam is a danger to Russia. Erdogan also is an Islamist, but a very different kind of Islamist: the Turkish president seeks the restoration of the glory (and perhaps some of the territory) of the Ottoman State, while Gülen is a missionary whose objective is to unite all the world’s Muslims, especially those of Turkish ethnicity, in a great supranational movement. Where Erdogan wants to aggrandize the Turkish state, Gülen hopes to undermine all authority but that of Islam among the hundred million ethnic Turkish Muslims of Central Asia. It is one thing to undermine Soviet aggression in Afghanistan, and another to contribute to internal instability in Russia long after the fall of the Soviet Union. America has reason to wish to contain Russian ambitions in a number of areas, but this kind of game risks a very dangerous confrontation.

Russia hates and fears Gülen. His organization built secondary schools in ethnic Turkish areas in Russia, as part of a long-term program to cultivate an Islamist elite caste. Russia initially welcomed the schools but expelled the Gülenists during the late 1990s. The former Soviet states of Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Tajikistan did so during the 2000s. Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Numan Kurtulmus praised Russia’s crackdown in a November 14 interview with the Russian website Sputnik. Said Kurtlmus, “Russia is in a better position as it was able to see the danger of the organization from the very beginning and thwart its activities on the Russian territory. We will seek to improve our cooperation with the Russian side on fighting [the Gülen organization] in the future.”

Turkey thinks the United States was behind the July 15 coup, as the New York Times reported on August 2. Otherwise, the Turks ask, why would the US continue to shelter the principal coup plotter? It is unclear what the Obama administration was doing. I think it unlikely that the Obama White House actually promoted the coup. Under Susan Rice, the National Security Council has become something of a free-for-all. It is more likely that the Gülenists acted on their own, and that some voices in the US intelligence community expressed sympathy for them after the fact.

More can be explained by incompetence than conspiracy. But the suggestion of American backing for Gülen persuaded both Ankara and Moscow that the US was playing (or at least considering) a dangerous game of destabilization. The outpouring of opprobrium against Flynn after he blew the whistle on Gülen suggests that some part of the administration and the intelligence community was caught with its pants down after the July 16 coup, and used the gullible Rothman of Commentary Magazine to attack Flynn.

The final result of the Obama administration’s blundering may be the exit of Turkey from the Western alliance. Ankara is now threatening to become a full member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, the Russo-Chinese umbrella group that may become a counterweight to NATO. China last month expressed sympathy for a Turkish move to the East. Turkey meanwhile is negotiating to acquire Russia’s advanced S-400 air defense system, a slap in the face to NATO.

That is why Turkish-sponsored direct negotiations between Russia and the Syrian rebels is such an ominous development. It shows how much influence the United States has lost in the region. Flynn has proposed to undo the damage and restore American influence. The fact that his suggestions were controversial in the first place shows how much work is required to reconstruct American intelligence and diplomacy.



David P. Goldman

David Paul Goldman (born September 27, 1951) is an American economist, music critic, and author, best known for his series of online essays in the Asia Times under the pseudonym Spengler. Goldman sits on the board of Asia Times Holdings.
 
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As early as 2008 Michael Rubin, a Middle East expert now at the American Enterprise Institute, warned that Gülen would use millions of followers and billions of dollars in business assets to launch an Islamist coup.
The arrest of Kemalist Generals back in 2008 should have been a warning to all of us but it seems only a few saw it coming.

Quite o good summary of Gülens cult.

 
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The arrest of Kemalist Generals back in 2008 should have been a warning to all of us but it seems only a few saw it coming.

I understand. But the threat now is the damage to the U.S.-Turkey relationship. As of right now, I think Trump can salvage matters.

My question is what damage the Obama Administration will inflict by intent (provocation) or negligence between now and Trump's inauguration? Though as I see it while Erdogan has a temper he knows when to play the long game so it'll be O.K.

Patience may be required. Gulen isn't about to launch a coup in the U.S;. and the rumor is that the evidence Erdogan has provided is inconclusive, so pinning him down is a matter of investigating his network of dozens of schools, a web that has to be untangled rather than cut.

But I want to point this out: under Obama federal criminal investigations and prosecutions too often became political matters, rather than good-faith pursuits. I don't see Trump behaving the same way so whatever influence the Gulenists may have "bought" through Clinton-Obama will be absent under Trump.
 
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I understand. But the threat now is the damage to the U.S.-Turkey relationship. As of right now, I think Trump can salvage matters.

My question is what damage the Obama Administration will inflict by intent (provocation) or negligence between now and Trump's inauguration? Though as I see it while Erdogan has a temper he knows when to play the long game so it'll be O.K.

Patience may be required. Gulen isn't about to launch a coup in the U.S;. and the rumor is that the evidence Erdogan has provided is inconclusive, so pinning him down is a matter of investigating his network of dozens of schools, a web that has to be untangled rather than cut.

But I want to point this out: under Obama federal criminal investigations and prosecutions too often became political matters, rather than good-faith pursuits. I don't see Trump behaving the same way so whatever influence the Gulenists may have "bought" through Clinton-Obama will be absent under Trump.

Goods points. I believe it will be real hard to restore relations on a bilateral basis. Both sides must give the other side unconditional support which is unlikely if US keeps supporting SDF or Erdogan keeping up the state of emergency to restore and build a sultanate.

In my opinion, Erdogan does not want Gülen back in for trial. Just think for a one second that in all authoritarian regimes, leaders praise public support because they promote the presence of "outside intervention" to their country. So that they could fight them. That's the case in any scenario.

Now, imagine US extradited Gülen to Turkey and he's put to jail. Who will the government blame for -literally- everything happening in the country to get support for their actions? No one. Right now he is the scapegoat Erdogan long desired to justify his actions. In fact its his biggest opportunity ever and he is one hell of an opportunist.

I really am desperate that we dont have a credible opposition that could slam and trial both Erdogan and Gülen at the same time with the rule of free law.
 
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I understand. But the threat now is the damage to the U.S.-Turkey relationship. As of right now, I think Trump can salvage matters.

My question is what damage the Obama Administration will inflict by intent (provocation) or negligence between now and Trump's inauguration? Though as I see it while Erdogan has a temper he knows when to play the long game so it'll be O.K.

Patience may be required. Gulen isn't about to launch a coup in the U.S;. and the rumor is that the evidence Erdogan has provided is inconclusive, so pinning him down is a matter of investigating his network of dozens of schools, a web that has to be untangled rather than cut.

But I want to point this out: under Obama federal criminal investigations and prosecutions too often became political matters, rather than good-faith pursuits. I don't see Trump behaving the same way so whatever influence the Gulenists may have "bought" through Clinton-Obama will be absent under Trump.
I believe Trump administration might indeed restore the ties but one thing is certain, this whole affair made a big impact on Turks mistrust to US goverment which isnt unknown for toppling regimes around the world.

I dont think it is very hard to surface ties of Gülens network to July 15th coup and all the other attrocities done by their network such as arresting innocents, espacially with video evidence of himself exposing his intentions decades ago alongside thousands of pages of evidence peresented by Turish goverment.
Clarification of an affair of this scale, which is threatening the stability for the whole region, should be high priority, i think it can be done in 1 or 2 years if the US goverment really wants a clarification of the matter.

Anyways, the next couple months will be crucial, lets see what the Trump administration will do to restore the ties but one thing is certain, Clinton goverment would have prevented extradition of Gülen at any cost which would expose their involvement in this scandal.
 
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...I dont think it is very hard to surface ties of Gülens network to July 15th coup and all the other attrocities done by their network such as arresting innocents, espacially with video evidence of himself exposing his intentions decades ago -
That's not enough. By that measure one could have prosecuted Mao Zedong for inspiring Maoist guerrilla movements from Nepal to Peru. You've got to show Gulen with his finger in the pie, not just handing out recipes.

In my opinion, Erdogan does not want Gülen back in for trial....Who will the government blame for -literally- everything happening in the country to get support for their actions? No one.
Well, Erdo will just have to live with that. Since he's already confessed to his mistake of past close relations with the Gulenists, he may already be resigned to this fate, yes?

I really am desperate that we dont have a credible opposition that could slam and trial both Erdogan and Gülen at the same time with the rule of free law.
Unclear.
 
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That's not enough. By that measure one could have prosecuted Mao Zedong for inspiring Maoist guerrilla movements from Nepal to Peru. You've got to show Gulen with his finger in the pie, not just handing out recipes.
Isnt it the same method for Osama claiming the 9/11 attacks on video which resulted in his execution?
Its highly unlikely to find any records of Gülen personally giving orders for the coup, but all the other things like his multi billion empire, his assets in state organs etc. are clear as daylight.
His network has a decades long history in influencing political decisions, US itself knows this better than anyone, actually US could extradite him if it really wants but if thats the path the US wants to go then so be it.
Its a gamble from US side, either Turkey becomes submissive to US or it abandons alliance to the west completely, the latter is more popular among Turks right now which wasnt always the case.
 
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Isnt it the same method for Osama claiming the 9/11 attacks on video which resulted in his execution?
No. Plenty of supporting evidence there.

....actually US could extradite him if it really wants but if thats the path the US wants to go then so be it.
Careful. You don't want to extradite Gulen for something other than the coup or else Turkey can't prosecute him for it later - as I understand it, that's how the U.S.-Turkey extradition treaty works, and it binds both judiciaries. Besides, an attempt to extradite him for a felony other than a coup can be resisted in court as attempted political persecution.
 
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No. Plenty of supporting evidence there.
As its the case for Gülen.

Careful. You don't want to extradite Gulen for something other than the coup or else Turkey can't prosecute him for it later - as I understand it, that's how the U.S.-Turkey extradition treaty works, and it binds both judiciaries. Besides, an attempt to extradite him for a felony other than a coup can be resisted in court as attempted political persecution.
Extradite him and we will see. :)

Seriously though, lets not play the stickler to the rules, US would find ways to extradite him even if no evidence was presented, it has even found enough reasons to invade a sovereign country which turned out to be no true reason at all, but im pretty sure more than enough has been presented, even involvement in the coup, but could US declare all those as ''not enough''? Maybe, we will see.
 
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Extradite him and we will see. :)
Over 80% of Turks investigated by Turkey's criminal justice system either have the charges dropped or convictions reversed or some such - it just takes a long time. Do you really want that to happen to Gulen, especially if that means the real coup mastermind is allowed to remain free and try again?

Seriously though, lets not play the stickler to the rules, US would find ways to extradite him even if no evidence was presented -
I seriously doubt that. Extradition is hard, especially of someone with millions of dollars and good lawyers to back them up.

, it has even found enough reasons to invade a sovereign country
Separation of powers. U.S. president has more authority to invade a country than to extradite a U.S. national. But the approach you're referring to here - that what government refused to acknowledge, therefore did not happen - is not a disease I've associated with any Administration other than Obama's and I'm guessing his successor won't take that cynical route.
 
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The reality isn't that simple.

One of the reason why we intervened too late in Syria was the objection to this operation of your beloved Kemalist generals. Traditionally, Kemalist generals are pro-Nato and pro-Usa in Turkey.

Like I said before, Kemalists aren't better than AKP sheeps. They are just another breed of sheeps.

You really make me sick and obviously you dont know anything about "Kemalist" soldiers in the military. Secondly, it was your beloved propaganda media that said it was the gulenist officers that delayed the operation in which your guys gladly took out the patriots from their seats to replace them with these gulenist scums.

Let me remind you something here:

Beraber yürüdünüz, beraber ağzına sıçtınız ülkenin. Kalkıp da darbe gecesi Atatürkçü askerlere sığınanlar herhalde İsveçli mültecilerdi :). YAŞ sonrası terfi alan personelin çoğu da Kennedy suikasti davasında yargılanmıştı.

images
 
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The reality isn't that simple.

One of the reasons why we intervened too late in Syria was the objection to this operation of your beloved Kemalist generals. Traditionally, Kemalist generals are pro-Nato and pro-Usa in Turkey.

Like I said before, Kemalists aren't better than AKP sheeps. They are just another breed of sheeps.
We should stop trashing people down and calling xyz names. Whats important is that people love their country and want the best for it, we should respect each other and always remember that we are first and foremost brothers.

If you listen to some of the retired generals and officers they always talk about how we need to have a proactive strategy against the PKK. These officers were ringing alarm bells as the PYD was first starting out and expanding in Syria. Don't forget who was leading the military during Operation Sun. BTW I am not calling the officers Kemalist or anything like that because this information is not known and it is not correct to label any military officer as belonging to group xyz. These officers serve us all and by labeling them we reduce the morale of the nation and armed forces.
 
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@Neptune
First of all, I'm not an AKP or Gülen fan boy. İ support neither one. But I'm not blind. AKP media is describing these generals as Gülenist because people know they are in fact disgusting hardcore Kemalists. This sounds stupid but it is, indeed, extremely intelligent and wise. By doing so, they're combining Gülen + Kemalism to create a modern concept of enemy for the public. A perfect excuse to fight both groups, Kemalists and Gülenists. This is very clever. Anyways, this does not change the facts I wrote down above. The Kemalist establishment in our military is/was extremely influenced by Nato and USA. They were the main reason we did not interfered earlier in Syria. This is not forgivable.
 
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