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It’s time India switches to millions and billions instead of lakhs and crores

ashok321

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It’s time India switches to millions and billions instead of lakhs and crores

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The Indian way of writing numbers, particularly large ones, results in a lot of unneeded mental gymnastics. It might be a good time to bring it to an end.

So how big is the Indian economy this year? If you were to put it in US dollars, the figure would be something approaching $2.5 trillion — which is easy to say and write. But if you were to put it in rupees, most people would say: About 160 lakh crore, or (rarely) Rs 1.6 crore crore. Numbers thus expressed are not only clumsy (like saying million million) but also, as a reader has pointed out, confound the logic of the Indian way of writing numbers. This is to have a comma after every two digits beyond the initial three, and different from the international counting system which puts a comma after every three digits. One lakh crore, if written in figures, would jumble up the two systems and state it as 1,00,000,00,00,000 — note that there is a three-digit aberration between commas, interspersed in the sequence of two-digit demarcations.

As it happens, there is a way to express the number simply and correctly in rupees — and that is to say Rs 16 neel (13 zeroes after 16). The problem is that no one uses this term — not the government, not the Reserve Bank, in fact no official or private body other than some Indian language publications which routinely use arab (for 100 crore). Perhaps this corruption of the Indian way of counting is because, over the years, everyone got used to talking of thousands of crores. Having got that far, it must have been a natural progression to lakh crores, and perhaps even crore crores.

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Most people are probably not aware that there are Indian terms for numbers that run to more than eight digits. Hence, Rs 20,000 crore should more correctly be written as Rs 2 kharab. A padma would be better than 10 crore crore; and 100 padmas would be a shankh — which in international terminology would be 100 quadrillion.

These terms are not in common usage. The question is whether they should be. If one is to move away from today’s mongrel version of counting large numbers, one should move to the proper use of Indian numerical terms, as designed; or switch to the internationally accepted system of million, billion, and the rest. The current zeitgeist would weigh in favour of reverting to the purity of the original Indian concepts, and therefore have a new term introduced with the addition of every two digits.

But this runs up against other problems. In today’s digital world, computer programmes are automatically set to introduce a comma after every three digits — in line with the international system and usage. The result is that a table giving a company’s financial results might state the sales turnover as 1,000,000 — but note at the top of the table that all figures are in lakhs. One has to do some mental jugglery to figure out that the figure is actually Rs 10,000 crore. The second problem is that Indian numbers would become incomprehensible to all outsiders who already struggle with understanding lakh and crore, and who would now be asked to also be familiar with arab, neel, and shankh, and also aware that padma is not just a woman’s name.

Given the choice, a modern economy with strong international linkages should switch to million, billion, and so on. If so, the average Indian (also the government, RBI, press, etc) would be required to make the mental adjustment and give up lakh and crore. This may not be much of an ask, as one can say 160 trillion instead of 16 neel. In any case, we have already moved from annas and pice to the decimal system for currency, from the variously defined bigha to the standardised hectare, and made other similar adjustments. One more adjustment should not therefore be too daunting an ask. Besides, many Indians would escape the constant mental gymnastics of converting millions and billions into lakhs and crores, and frequently committing errors.
 
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The sooner the better, most of the world countries count in million (Pakistan included). On this Pakistan is one up on India who changed the counting system from Lakhs to million, as was also the case for color TV transmission, wherein Pakistan was ahead of India = Pakistan first introduced color Television broadcast than India.
 
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What rubbish... has Pakistani economy or currency improved after they converted from lakhs n crores to millions n billions? What have they achieved by color tv broadcasting before India? If it makes you happy that they something did before India then it only reflects your inferiority complex.

It is perhaps the english speaking media people who think that highest number is crore.. There is arab, kharab, padma, neel, shankh. Vernacular media at least mentions arab i.e. 10 arab instead of 1000 crores. One billion is equal to one arab and 1 trillion is 10 kharab. So Indian economy is 25 kharab dollars (2.5 trillion dollars) or 1,600 kharab rupaye or 16 padma rapaye. Indian counting system uses comma first after 3 zeroes and then after every 2 zeroes. When we have the counting system then why should we shift to millions and billions.
 
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so, you mean just to save mental jugglery of few thousand highly educated people like him; writer wants to force educated-uneducated, old-young of 120 crore (1.2 billion if OP cant understand) ,to system which they hardly use in his/her daily life.
What an idea sirji.....
 
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no need to change habit of billion plus people, the software should be able to deal with such conversion...
 
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so, you mean just to save mental jugglery of few thousand highly educated people like him; writer wants to force educated-uneducated, old-young of 120 crore (1.2 billion if OP cant understand) ,to system which they hardly use in his/her daily life.
What an idea sirji.....

no need to change habit of billion plus people, the software should be able to deal with such conversion...

This is what Isaac Asimov has described as "technophobia", or more generally, as a "fear of le-learning".

The metric system is superior to the old British system of lakhs and crores. It is superior because it is simpler. We really ought to switch to the metric system, just as Americans ought to switch to Kilograms and Kilometers instead of pounds and miles and and ounces and fluid ounces.

In school, Indian students are now required to learn both systems - what they call the "Indian system" of lakhs and crores, and what they call the "international system" of millions and billions. This is due to the nation's collective inertia - the laziness to move on to a superior system, simply because of a fear of re-learning. Ironically, this fear of re-learning now means that everybody has to learn two systems instead of one.

All scientific calculations are simpler in the metric system. All numerical comparisons are simpler in millions and billions. But as long as we invent these excuses for not moving on, we are forcing ourselves to learn and think in terms of two different systems.

Asimov: “We invent reasons for resisting the change, but the real reason is that we dread the process of re-learning.”






Here is Asimov writing about the fear of re-learning:

"Human beings learn how to handle numerous complicated devices in their lifetimes. The learning is not always easy, but once the complications are learned — if they are learned properly — it all becomes automatic. The thought of abandoning it and learning something else, of going through the process again, is terribly frightening.

For instance, the system of common measures in the United States—inches, feet, yards, miles, or ounces and pounds, or pints, quarts and gallons–is an incredibly complicated and nonsensical farrago of units. The rest of the civilized world uses the metric system, which in comparison is simplicity itself. Using the metric system would save us endless hours of educating our youngsters and be beneficial to our entire industrial infrastructure…..

And yet there is no question that the American public fears the metric system and, if it has its will, it would cling to the present system forever. Nor is it because the public uses the common units with any great skill. Very few Americans are completely at ease with them, and know, offhand, how many pecks there are in a bushel, or how many square feet in an acre, or, for that matter how many inches are in a mile. Yet we won’t change it for a system any child can learn in a day and remember for a lifetime. We invent reasons for resisting the change, but the real reason is that we dread the process of re-learning.

It is my feeling that re-education must be recognized for the highly difficult and (even more so) embarrassing process it is.”
 
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This is what Isaac Asimov has described as "technophobia", or more generally, as a "fear of le-learning".

The metric system is superior to the old British system of lakhs and crores. It is superior because it is simpler. We really ought to switch to the metric system, just as Americans ought to switch to Kilograms and Kilometers instead of pounds and miles and and ounces and fluid ounces.

In school, Indian students are now required to learn both systems - what they call the "Indian system" of lakhs and crores, and what they call the "international system" of millions and billions. This is due to the nation's collective inertia - the laziness to move on to a superior system, simply because of a fear of re-learning. Ironically, this fear of re-learning now means that everybody has to learn two systems instead of one.

All scientific calculations are simpler in the metric system. All numerical comparisons are simpler in millions and billions. But as long as we invent these excuses for not moving on, we are forcing ourselves to learn and think in terms of two different systems.

Asimov: “We invent reasons for resisting the change, but the real reason is that we dread the process of re-learning.”






Here is Asimov writing about the fear of re-learning:

"Human beings learn how to handle numerous complicated devices in their lifetimes. The learning is not always easy, but once the complications are learned — if they are learned properly — it all becomes automatic. The thought of abandoning it and learning something else, of going through the process again, is terribly frightening.

For instance, the system of common measures in the United States—inches, feet, yards, miles, or ounces and pounds, or pints, quarts and gallons–is an incredibly complicated and nonsensical farrago of units. The rest of the civilized world uses the metric system, which in comparison is simplicity itself. Using the metric system would save us endless hours of educating our youngsters and be beneficial to our entire industrial infrastructure…..

And yet there is no question that the American public fears the metric system and, if it has its will, it would cling to the present system forever. Nor is it because the public uses the common units with any great skill. Very few Americans are completely at ease with them, and know, offhand, how many pecks there are in a bushel, or how many square feet in an acre, or, for that matter how many inches are in a mile. Yet we won’t change it for a system any child can learn in a day and remember for a lifetime. We invent reasons for resisting the change, but the real reason is that we dread the process of re-learning.

It is my feeling that re-education must be recognized for the highly difficult and (even more so) embarrassing process it is.”
both lakhs and crores as well as millions and billions are metric system... right? why is it simpler in billions.
we dont need to remember or convert, we got computers in our pockets to do that... vast number of people do not need to deal with millions and billions, so why should they change?

about conversion from other system to metric... well if we need and it makes our lives easier we should do.... do we need a 10 hour clock? even though the earth rotates in its axis every 24 hours so 24 hr clock(or 12 hr clock) is easier to operate?
 
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This is what Isaac Asimov has described as "technophobia", or more generally, as a "fear of le-learning".

The metric system is superior to the old British system of lakhs and crores. It is superior because it is simpler. We really ought to switch to the metric system, just as Americans ought to switch to Kilograms and Kilometers instead of pounds and miles and and ounces and fluid ounces.

In school, Indian students are now required to learn both systems - what they call the "Indian system" of lakhs and crores, and what they call the "international system" of millions and billions. This is due to the nation's collective inertia - the laziness to move on to a superior system, simply because of a fear of re-learning. Ironically, this fear of re-learning now means that everybody has to learn two systems instead of one.

All scientific calculations are simpler in the metric system. All numerical comparisons are simpler in millions and billions. But as long as we invent these excuses for not moving on, we are forcing ourselves to learn and think in terms of two different systems.

Asimov: “We invent reasons for resisting the change, but the real reason is that we dread the process of re-learning.”






Here is Asimov writing about the fear of re-learning:

"Human beings learn how to handle numerous complicated devices in their lifetimes. The learning is not always easy, but once the complications are learned — if they are learned properly — it all becomes automatic. The thought of abandoning it and learning something else, of going through the process again, is terribly frightening.

For instance, the system of common measures in the United States—inches, feet, yards, miles, or ounces and pounds, or pints, quarts and gallons–is an incredibly complicated and nonsensical farrago of units. The rest of the civilized world uses the metric system, which in comparison is simplicity itself. Using the metric system would save us endless hours of educating our youngsters and be beneficial to our entire industrial infrastructure…..

And yet there is no question that the American public fears the metric system and, if it has its will, it would cling to the present system forever. Nor is it because the public uses the common units with any great skill. Very few Americans are completely at ease with them, and know, offhand, how many pecks there are in a bushel, or how many square feet in an acre, or, for that matter how many inches are in a mile. Yet we won’t change it for a system any child can learn in a day and remember for a lifetime. We invent reasons for resisting the change, but the real reason is that we dread the process of re-learning.

It is my feeling that re-education must be recognized for the highly difficult and (even more so) embarrassing process it is.”
Lakhs and crores are for people who prefer hindi. That's the majority in India.
Anyone who deals internationally would learn about the millions and trillions. Lazy ones can always Google.
Anyhow, the base is 10 for both the systems.
 
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Lakh and crore is better

100 crore:: bilion
1 lakh crore ::: trillion
 
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Lakhs and crores are for people who prefer hindi. That's the majority in India.
Anyone who deals internationally would learn about the millions and trillions. Lazy ones can always Google.
Anyhow, the base is 10 for both the systems.
they should be used in Hindi, instead of English.
 
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What rubbish... has Pakistani economy or currency improved after they converted from lakhs n crores to millions n billions? What have they achieved by color tv broadcasting before India? If it makes you happy that they something did before India then it only reflects your inferiority complex.

It is perhaps the english speaking media people who think that highest number is crore.. There is arab, kharab, padma, neel, shankh. Vernacular media at least mentions arab i.e. 10 arab instead of 1000 crores. One billion is equal to one arab and 1 trillion is 10 kharab. So Indian economy is 25 kharab dollars (2.5 trillion dollars) or 1,600 kharab rupaye or 16 padma rapaye. Indian counting system uses comma first after 3 zeroes and then after every 2 zeroes. When we have the counting system then why should we shift to millions and billions.

Agreed. Modern mathematics originated in India, the people of the subcontinent have a unique system - why abandon it? What difficult does it cause? Anyone who has concern with millions and billions should be intelligent enough to convert to lakh and crore.
 
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