It's Sukhoi vs Eurofighter as IAF 'takes on' RAF

[mehboobkz]

Eurofighter Typhoon - Demon or Lemon?


Eurofighter Typhoon - Demon or Lemon?


The comparative advantages of the Typhoon over the Su-27/30 family exhibit similar sensitivities to technology upgrades in the Sukhoi fighters. Fitted with a phased array, longwave IRS&T, carrying ramjet R-77M missiles, supported by SuAWACS, and using growth engines we must seriously question how great a lethality margin the Typhoon would hold against such a fighter. The Sukhoi, inevitably, exhibits the same thrust/weight ratio advantages the F-15 does in extended range combat, which was a design objective for this type as it was for the F-15.

 

[SpArK]

Indian AWACS, RAF Eurofighters at Exercise Indradhanush This Month!​

UK Air Force Exercise Indradhanush will take place at Air Force Station Kalaikunda, in West Midinapur district, West Bengal from 18 Oct 2010 till 03 Nov 2010.
This would be for the first time when RAF (Royal Air Force) Typhoons would be seen in a joint operational scenario in India. The IAF would be participating in this exercise with the Su-30 MKI, Mirage-2000, MiG-27 and Phalcon AWACS. The RAF would also be deploying its E-3D AWACS and VC-10 mid-air refuellers.
According to the Air Marshal KK Nohwar, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Eastern Air Command "Indradhanush is an opportunity for both the Air Forces to get an insight into each others operational philosophies and work cultures. This will greatly enhance the understanding of our Air Force to operate in scenario involving state of the art technologies".

In a written brief to the participating aircrew, Air Marshal LK Malhotra, Senior Air Staff Officer of the Eastern Air Command said "This exercise will prove to be a boon for both the nations to fine tune their procedures for multi-national operations, which are likely to happen with greater frequency in future. It will help fine tune tactics for large force engagements and also share each others experience to hone up the skills even more".

During Ex-Indradhanush, specific emphasis will be on exposing more IAF aircrew and controllers to missions like Large Force Engagements, and protection of High Value Aerial Assets -- roles routinely undertaken by RAF as part of coalition/expeditionary force deployment around the globe. It will be for the first time that IAF AWACS will participate in a joint AF exercise. The other novel exposure is expected to be logistical management needed to move large forces for a possible out of area contingency.

Livefist - The Best of Indian Defence: Indian AWACS, RAF Eurofighters at Exercise Indradhanush This Month!

 

[Rajkumar]

RAF will try their best to beat IAF because if they could do so. it will increase the chance of the TYFOON to be mmrca winner.

on the other hand indians will try their best to test this fighter against MKIs for the same reason mentioned above which means it will going affect the decision of mmrca any way.

 

[RPK]

It’s SU-30s vs Typhoons at India-Britain aerial war games


New Delhi, Oct 11 (IANS) The last time around, it was a no-contest but this time the Sukhoi SU-30 combat jets of the Indian Air Force (IAF) will be stretched to the limit as they take on the Eurofighter Typhoons of the Royal Air Force (RAF) in aerial war games that begin in Kalaikunda in West Bengal Oct 18.

The 17-day Exercise Indradhanush will, for the first time, also feature the IAF’s newly acquired IL-78 airborne warning and control systems (AWACS).

The RAF had deployed its Tornadoes the last time the exercise was held at Gwalior in 2007 but they were no match for the SU-30s as was evident from the black “kill marks” on their tails when they landed.

The Typhoon, which is one of the six fighters in contention for an IAF order for 126 combat jets, was displayed at the 2009 Bangalore International Air Show but this will be the first time it will be seen in an operational role in this country.

“Along with the intent of improving cooperating at international level, the aim of this joint exercise is to enhance mutual understanding and refine procedures for future joint exercise between the two air forces,” Wing Commander Mahesh Upasani, the Kolkata-based chief public relations officer of the defence ministry, told IANS.

Apart from the SU-30s, the IAF will also be fielding its Mirage 2000 and MiG-27 fighters. On its part, the RAF will also be the E-3D Sentry (AWACS) and the VC-10 air-to-air refuellers.

According to the Air Marshal K.K. Nohwar, Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Eastern Air Command, “Exercise Indradhanush is an opportunity for both the air forces to get an insight into each others operational philosophies and work cultures. This will greatly enhance the understanding of our air force to operate in scenario involving state of the art technologies”.

In a written brief to the participating aircrews, Air Marshal L.K. Malhotra, Senior Air Staff Officer of the Eastern Air Command, said: “This exercise will prove to be a boon for both the nations to fine tune their procedures for multinational operations, which are likely to happen with greater frequency in future. It will help fine tune tactics for large force engagements and also share each others experience to hone up the skills even more.”

 

[Markus]

But I guess our Flankers will have their radars in demo mode.

So no real contest.

 

[SpArK]

During the exercise Indradhanush, specific emphasis will be on exposing more IAFs aircrew and controllers to missions like Large Force Engagements, and protection of High Value Aerial Assets roles routinely undertaken by RAF as apart of coalition/expeditionary force deployment around the globe. It will be for the first time that IAF AWACS will participate in a joint AF exercise.

The other novel exposure is expected to be logistical management needed to move large forces for a possible out of area contingency.

Kalaikunda set for Indo-UK air exercise | My-India.Net

 

[!!craft!!]

I do not agree to the bold statement.

Mki is much more bigger craft more powerful radars. Also its avionics is the mix of French/Israeli/Indian. very tailor made

hey i totally respect you opinion but can you explain me how a bigger aircraft is better in combat ? i hope you take a look below at the EF typhoons avionics package and compare it with mki..

The Typhoon's avionic package is built essentially upon the technology base used in the teen series fighters, but employs a higher level of integration against established in service teen series types.

The centrepiece of the avionic package is the X-band (I/J-band) ECR-90 pulse-Doppler multimode radar, similar in concept to the US Raytheon APG-63/65/70 series and derived from the Blue Vixen (Harrier FRS.2). Eurofighter are claiming twice the output power of the F/A-18's APG-65/73 series (typical power output for this class is 10 kW peak), and twice the detection range of the F-16's APG-68. However, in the absence of published data on the ECR-90's mechanically steered planar array aperture size, and peak power ratings, it is impossible to robustly verify these assertions. The radar is frequently credited with a detection range advantage over the F-15's APG-63/70 series, a necessity for the intended use of ramjet BVR missiles with an 80 NMI class A-pole range.

In terms of modes the ECR-90 incorporates the typical package we are familiar with in the teen series, or equivalents. Eurofighter emphasise the rapid slew rate of the planar array.


The ECR-90 is supplemented by two passive sensors. The Pilkington Optronics PIRATE mid-wave IRS&T/FLIR can be used for detection, identification and terrain avoidance, with eight discrete operating modes. It is tightly integrated with the radar's functions and either can be slaved to the other. In the absence of aperture and detector size data it is impossible to estimate the effective range under clear sky conditions.

An ESM is integrated into the Defensive Aids SubSystem (DASS), and could be employed as a passive targeting tool in engagements, in addition to its basic function as a sensitive long range RWR. The antenna packages are in the wingtip pods.

The DASS package is comprehensive, incorporating the ESM/RWR, a MAWS, a forward sector Laser Warning Receiver (RAF), expendables, DECM and an optical fibre towed decoy. This is a competitive package by any measure, against its US contemporaries.

The core avionic architecture is based upon the federated model, using multiple Mil-Std-1553B busses, making it comparable technologically to late build teen series systems. Eurofighter claim the use of sensor fusion techniques in the system software, to combine the data produced by the radar, IRS&T and ESM to provide a very high confidence of early BVR target identification and engagement. Given the significantly lower available computing power in the Typhoon, against the F-22A's Cray class CIPs, assertions that this capability is competitive against the sensor fusion software in the F-22A are somewhat peculiar, given that real time sensor fusion is a computationally intensive task.

eurofighter take much pride in the aircraft's cockpit, which incorporates a holographic HUD, 3 colour MFDs, HOTAS controls, and pilot voice input for selecting system modes. Marconi are developing a HMD, which is intended to provide the pilot with visor projected binocular NVG imagery, FLIR/IRS&T imagery and symbology. On the available data the cockpit is state of the art, and clearly very competitive against teen series equivalents.

Primary navigation reference is provided by a Litton LN-93EF RLG INS, supplemented by GPS and TACAN. A GPWS (ground prox warning) and Microwave Landing System (MLS) are incorporated, the former to aid in low level operations. The aircraft carries secure VHF and UHF comm, an IFF interrogator and a MIDS/JTIS terminal.

 

[redpearl75]

no offence i guess the ef is better than the mki

main difference between the two

mki is a little large so more RCS

ef has better avionics than mki

more agile

i my view agility is very important that maneurabily in future air combats as there wont be a lot of air dog fights...

Would you say the same if MKI goes through the upgrade plan that's underway of making it more stealthier, with AESA radar, Internal weapon bays etc...

 

[BS_Buster]

Arent both maneuverability and agility ,different words to indicate the same thing.?

no

maneuverability

agility

sorry craft already posted

 

[BS_Buster]

su30mki and typhoon have own advantages. but i love rafale.

 

[!!craft!!]

Would you say the same if MKI goes through the upgrade plan that's underway of making it more stealthier, with AESA radar, Internal weapon bays etc...

i was taking into account the present situation of the two fighter aircrafts. see i am no aviation analist or an military expert ,just a simple guy who loves to put fighter planes posters in him room ... in future sukhoi 30 will be getting an aesa radar i am not sure about the internal bay , so will the ef typhoon and other upgrades .. we will have to wait and see in the future which is better...
in the mean time do have a look at the following points.. ill pm you the links if you request...

1. In 2004, United States Air Force Chief of Staff General John P. Jumper said after flying the Eurofighter, "I have flown all the air force jets. None was as good as the Eurofighter


2 In March 2005, Jumper, then the only person to have flown both the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Raptor, talked to Air Force Print News about these two aircraft. He saidThe Eurofighter is certainly, as far as smoothness of controls and the ability to pull (and sustain high g forces), very impressive", he said. "That is what it was designed to do, especially the version I flew, with the avionics, the color moving map displays, etc. — all absolutely top notch. The maneuverability of the airplane in close-in combat was also very impressive


3 The Typhoon is capable of supersonic cruise without using afterburners (referred to as supercruise). According to the official German Luftwaffe and Austrian Eurofighter website, the maximum speed possible without reheat is between Mach 1.2 and Mach 1.5


4 the Eurofighter consortium claims their fighter has a larger sustained subsonic turn rate, sustained supersonic turn rate, and faster acceleration at Mach 0.9 at 20,000 feet (6,100 m) than the F-14 Tomcat, F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon, F/A-18 Hornet, Dassault Mirage 2000, Dassault Rafale, the Sukhoi Su-27, and the Mikoyan MiG-29


5 In 2005, a trainer Eurofighter T1 was reported to have had a chance encounter the previous year with two U.S. Air Force F-15Es over the Lake District in the north of England. The encounter became a mock dogfight with the Eurofighter allegedly emerging victorious


6 In the 2005 Singapore evaluation, the Typhoon won all three combat tests, including one in which a single Typhoon defeated three RSAF F-16s, and reliably completed all planned flight tests

7 during the exercise "Typhoon Meet" held in 2008, Eurofighters flew against F/A-18 Hornets, Mirage F1s, Harriers and F-16s in a mock combat exercise. It is claimed that the Eurofighters won all engagements (even outnumbered 8 vs 27) without suffering losses


8 The Eurofighter is thought to have an RCS of less than one square metre in a clean configuration by author Doug Richardson, although no official value is availableThis compares with the estimated RCS of the Rafale of 2 square metres, the 20 square metres of the Su-30MKI,the 1 square metre of the Su-35BM

 

[mehboobkz]

su30mki and typhoon have own advantages. but i love rafale.

Rafale is 100 million a peice - who wants it?

 

[BS_Buster]

But I guess our Flankers will have their radars in demo mode.

So no real contest.

yes but this will be there

 

[!!craft!!]

Rafale is 100 million a peice - who wants it?

well we wont be buying all in fly away cost.. i guess only six aircrafts will coast around 100 mill.. the others will be produced by HAL under licenced production so the overall cost will come down dramatically.. remember its a 12 billion dollar deal not 120 billion dollars

 

[BS_Buster]

Rafale is 100 million a peice - who wants it?

france will reduce the price if they want to win the bid and they will.