It's official. No more Arjuns!!!

[DMLA]

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: "Army Does Not Want More Than 124 Arjun Tanks. It Is Official"

The month-long "comparitive" trials of the indigenous Arjun main battle tank end on March 15, but the DRDO's Combat Vehicles R&D Establishment (CVRDE) will have to gear up to face its worst fear, this time officially -- the Army will not order more tanks over and above the 124 already ordered. I've just spoken with a senior Defence Ministry official, who said that the DRDO would be formally told later this month that no further orders will be placed on the current configuration of the Arjun by the Army, and that further orders would be only possible on the Mark-2 or the FMBT as and when they are ready. So there it is: two regiments of the Arjun Mark-1. No more.

In July 2008, the DRDO had told the government in a note, "If the army does not place further orders for Arjun we cannot even amortize the infrastructural investments made by the government for its productionisation, thereby resulting in wasteful expenditure. The Army should place orders for additional 300 tanks before we can break even."

The official I spoke to says that concerns about recovery of investment by the Heavy Vehicles Factor (HVF) and CVRDE are being addressed by Secretary (Defence Production) and some sort of "back-up measures" will be taken.

He explained, "The point is the Army has been putting up its submission that it already has a main battle tank in the T-90 and that inducting the Arjun in its present configuration will be a logistical challenge. They have been repeatedly saying that Arjun must be progressed to a more modern design and configuration so that it can find greater usability in the Army. There might be some ill-feeling because after all it is a prestige issue also, but that is separate. Now everyone is in agreement that the Arjun in its present configuration is a closed chapter. It has to move forward."

The official also echoed what DRDO chief VK Saraswat said at his recent press conference about how the trials currently on in Rajasthan are not true comparative trials, but rather "to identify the optimum placement, positioning and deployment of Arjun MBT taking into account its capabilities and logistical signature." He explained that there was no longer any question of testing the Arjun's capabilities. "User trials have been carried out extensively and the tank has been accepted as a proven platform. But the Army feels it is a dated design, though the Army also observes that it is an excellent platform for further development indigenously," he added.

I would seem that now we will have to wait for mk-II....

 

[DMLA]

And this is from 2008:

armoredd Blog Archive India`s future tank nowhere in sight

India`s future tank nowhere in sight31st July 2008, 01:06 am Ajai Shukla / New Delhi July 28, 2008, 0:13 IST

Business Standard

On July 22 and 23, tank experts from across the world gathered in Delhi to advise the Army on designing its next generation of armoured vehicles — the Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT) and Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV).

Despite two years of labour, the Army’s tank managers, the Directorate General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF), have been unable to decide on a suitable design .

Several of these experts told Business Standard that the DGMF’s problems stem from its decision to start designing a tank all over again. Instead of building on two decades of experience in designing the indigenous Arjun tank, by moving onto an advanced version of the Arjun, the Army is going back to the start line.


Experts at the seminar — including Israeli tank legend, Maj Gen Yossi Ben-Hanan, who designed that country’s successful Merkava tank — pointed out that tank design is evolutionary, each design building upon the previous one.

The Israelis began designing their Merkava-1 MBT in 1970; today they have the world-class Merkava-4. The Russians started in 1940 with the T-32 tank; that experience led to the T-55; the T-72 followed, which was further refined to today’s T-90.

India has rejected this well-tested path . The Combat Vehicles R&D Establishment (CVRDE) in Chennai, which has designed the Arjun, is now offering an improved Arjun-2 with more modern electronics. But last month, the Army’s top tank-man, Lt Gen D Bhardwaj, trashed two decades of indigenous design work on the Arjun; he declared that the Army would buy just 124 Arjuns for its 4,000-tank fleet. On July 23, Maj Gen Yossi Ben-Hanan warned the audience, “A decision taken today to build an Indian tank will yield an MBT only 15 years hence.”

And for those 15 years, Russia is poised to fill the Indian inventory, just as it has for the last 35 years. It is learned that Moscow has seriously violated the 2001 contract to supply India with 310 Russian-built T-90s and then transfer the technology, materials and components to build another 1,000 in India.

Seven years after that contract was signed, not a single T-90 has rolled out of Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF), Avadi, where they are to be built. Senior MoD sources tell that Russia has failed to provide India with critical technologies and components needed for T-90 manufacture.

Russia has not been sued for this breach of contract; instead it has been rewarded. Last December, India ordered 347 more fully-built T-90s. A senior MoD officer dealing directly with purchases points out that this will delay the indigenous manufacture of T-90s even further, since the Russian plant cannot transfer any components or materials until it meets the fresh Indian order.

Meanwhile, the 310 T-90s, which have been delivered by Russia and introduced into service, are not battle worthy. The crucial Fire Control System (FCS), through which the tank fires at the enemy, has failed to function in Indian summers. An obliging Russian industry offered to sell India “tank air conditioners”, though no other tank in our inventory needs or uses air-conditioning.

The Russian air-conditioners were put through trials, during which the tank driver fainted from heatstroke . Now the MoD has floated a global tender for air-conditioning the T-90s.

 

[FreekiN]

:o

How do ya delete your own post?

 

[Creder]

i dont get the sad face...we were actually hoping youd go for it but i guess not.. my question do the 124 tanks cover up in any meager way the money put into the R&D of this tank ?

 

[KEETARP]

AVADI factory yes- It will be loss of money no doubt

 

[DMLA]

i dont get the sad face...we were actually hoping youd go for it but i guess not.. my question do the 124 tanks cover up in any meager way the money put into the R&D of this tank ?

The sad face if to show how dissapointed I am with the news having seen the tank up close! As to the question of covering the cost, 124 does not cover the cost of the tank in any fashion.

PS: I would wait for the official confirmation of the cap on Arjun. There is a possibility that RM may push for additional Arjuns. Having said that, I just hope that FMBT has CVRDE input seeing the vital technologies they have mastered with Arjun. Also, mk-II should provide another opportunity for Arjun to shine. I am optimistic and hoping for the best.

 

[deckingraj]

Arjun is a piece of junk wasteage of money hahahahah

Have you honestly studied the results of comparative trials of Arjun??? No one with a balanced mind will call it a piece of Junk...However its too late for Arjun to prove its worth.....Logistics issue is definitely a valid concern for a platform when atleast on paper we want to get FMBT(as a JV with ruskies)....

Anyways you might wanna read these experts again

The point is the Army has been putting up its submission that it already has a main battle tank in the T-90 and that inducting the Arjun in its present configuration will be a logistical challenge. They have been repeatedly saying that Arjun must be progressed to a more modern design and configuration so that it can find greater usability in the Army

User trials have been carried out extensively and the tank has been accepted as a proven platform. But the Army feels it is a dated design, though the Army also observes that it is an excellent platform for further development indigenously," he added

 

[Creder]

The sad face if to show how dissapointed I am with the news having seen the tank up close! As to the question of covering the cost, 124 does not cover the cost of the tank in any fashion.

PS: I would wait for the official confirmation of the cap on Arjun. There is a possibility that RM may push for additional Arjuns. Having said that, I just hope that FMBT has CVRDE input seeing the vital technologies they have mastered with Arjun. Also, mk-II should provide another opportunity for Arjun to shine. I am optimistic and hoping for the best.

well atleast they got their stuff down for the newer one dont they ..that should in the long run ..very long run cover up the costs..but they need to be careful as to not make the same mistakes they did with this one

 

[DMLA]

well atleast they got their stuff down for the newer one dont they ..that should in the long run ..very long run cover up the costs..but they need to be careful as to not make the same mistakes they did with this one

As far as Arjun goes, the platform is amazing. I am sure IA has has valid reasons not to order any more. It was obvious that Arjun has lost once the T-90 deal was signed. The final number was a matter of face saving exercise. The eventual number of T-90's could very well reach 2000+. I am however hopeful for mk-II and as you say, hopefully they will not make the same mistake (take too long to iron out issues ). A viable mk-II would provide a good replacement for some of the dated T-72's.

With India opening up and the entire planet lined up to collaborate with us on major defence product initiatives, I will not be least bit surprised if our FMBT turns out to be an american or Israeli design (and not a russian one). Whatever is the fate of Arjun, the future of indian armed forces seems to be more or less bright!

 

[Creder]

piece of a cake for enemies arjun arjunk

i dont see the point of being giddy here guys, Pakistan army would have been much better off fighting Arjun..Now that Arjun is out of the picture India is going to go after a much more advanced tank..this is a loss for both..for us because we might end up being pitted against a crazy *** tank ...for indians the loss ..well its just too obvious

 

[fhassan]

250 ordered

500 planned

2000+ MBT's needed before 2020

Unless we hear of a massive order of T-90's

There will a few thousand Arjuns

 

[FireFighter]

From Indian perspective, it should be treated as good news, think about it, the Arjun never impressed any scientists or int'l observers nor the military officials, it should have been buried 10 years ago. but the outrageously big egoistic mentality of the Indian babu's and military officials have kept the public on false hopes and deception whilst they made $$$ livings out of the project...

 

[ramu]

Not everything is lost. The experience gained in designing will come to play sometime. I am disappointed though. T90, it will be.

 

[razgriz19]

welll....the experience they gained from this project will help them in future...
good luck!

 

[Hulk]

I know someone in IA that has some Input around this, I got an indication that there will be more then just 124 but do not know about the number. I am sure the number will not run in thousands though. However unlike others, I do not feel that is waste of money, in every R&D process their will be failure before success. If we do future tank development lesson learned from here will be more valuable then money put on those projects.