It's GE F-414 for LCA Mk-II; EJ-200 loses the race in photo finish

[rsingh]

Eurojet Reacts To Defeat, Says Decision Means Tejas Won't Get Best Engine

Eurojet Gmbh has accepted defeat in the Tejas Mk-II engine competition. Just received this statement from the company:

"We respect the decision taken by the Price Negotiating Committee. However, we regret that the Committee has decided against the most capable & latest generation engine on offer for the LCA-Tejas. Together with our consortium partner companies and their respective governments we will carefully study the decision and its implications. We expect further details from Indian authorities and more information about the process leading to the announced selection. This decision does not affect our strong commitment to India. We will continue to explore true and trusted partnerships here which will support the development of a strong Indian aerospace and defence industry."

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Deleted.... just saw Benny' post!

does it says ge is the lowest bidder. Can't read it (mobile)

 

[SpArK]

does it says ge is the lowest bidder. Can't read it (mobile)

Yes the price quote was lesser in case of GE.. but we all know price is not the factor here..

Anyway GE or EF, happy that a "decision" has been made at last.. now waiting for the MRCA "decision".

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Now mrca fight is between gripen vs fa 18 vs rafale.

 

[Dash]

I guess it is cost driven, although I wonder how much the airframe changes will cost. What Dr Prahalada meant was not related to the EJ 200 engine, but to the older GE 404 and Kaveri engine that was possible for LCA MK

No what I meant here is they didnt actually focus on cost here, if the report what it suggets is true regarding the Bid, then GE has a higher bid. (or is this wrong). Now we know GE gives better thurst than EJ and DRDo selected this keeping IAF POV of better thurst. what they have thought is similarity of GE engine will not make the LCA changes costlier and an operational experience of operating GE engines in the past will minimize the cost. so a decision which catered or marginalizing the cost and bid of GE engines while servin IAFs interest. So my question is in MRCA will they focus life time cost and return on bids, even if the bid is on the higher side (for a plane like Rafale) or just the lowest bidder.? whatever the case may be I thought they are looking at better engines to give the LCA program maximum momentum.

Not only 99, but also 49 optional and of course the same ammount of engines that will be added in later upgrades. Also they offered 3D TVC if we want and fund it and besides that it would be a great addition for an LCA withouth canards, ToT of it would have been an advantage for Kaveri engine too (the aim for AMCA is a Kaveri engine with TVC and SC features). Don't forget that a EJ 200 productionline in India would also reduce the costs for the EF member countries, so that deal even without winning MMRCA would have been very good for them

Moving the production lines was only when IAF selects EF in MRCA and LCA engines combined, just for 140 engines I dont think they will have moved the production line. Now even if they move the lines who is the major here DRDO with TOT producing on behalf of EJ or EJ themselves, if Latter was true then no use. the question of SC and TVC would have come after this. Dont know how much it would have helped, but yes It would have helped as we could have made some arrangements.

Now EJ out of pic, Kaveri will not have TVC, in near future to come. A big dissapointment though, the only hope if EF wins MRCA but that is how mcuh profitable dont know.

But the French are too focused on Brazil and UAE at the moment.

But after Sarkozy visits India, I think rafale will gain momentum, with UAE showing discomfort with Rafale upgrade program. I think the French will divert their attention to India. The French need to get some lucrative offer on the table here else MRCA is going to the F-18.

 

[aanshu001]

F - 18 is now got an edge on others and if it so, India will dominate Asian sky at least for next 25-30 years with FGFA & MKI.

 

[skyisthelimit]

i sincerely hope that india is playing this game making americans happy with such orders.....and does not end up giving the whole pie including mmrca to us of a.

india needs to keep its option ope and keep everyone happy...i mean EU happy with some defence deals....i sincerely hope rafael or ef wins the mmrca....

showing americans not all is there for them plus keep everyone happy with our fingers dipped in all dishes.

 

[sancho]

No what I meant here is they didnt actually focus on cost here, if the report what it suggets is true regarding the Bid, then GE has a higher bid. (or is this wrong).

You mean the Shukla article that said the US engine is more expensive than the European, I had some doubts about that from the begining and now it is stated that the US engine was the lowest bidder.

Now we know GE gives better thurst than EJ and DRDo selected this keeping IAF POV of better thurst.
what they have thought is similarity of GE engine will not make the LCA changes costlier and an operational experience of operating GE engines in the past will minimize the cost. so a decision which catered or marginalizing the cost and bid of GE engines while servin IAFs interest.

Actually we can't see it like that, once we don't know how with much thrust the EJ engine was proposed (it was reported something between 90 and 100kN), not to forget that it weighs less than the GE engine, so T/W ratio wouldn't be less. But I agree that it would be easier for IAF to handle GE 404 and 414 in different versions of LCA, than one US and one EU engine.

So my question is in MRCA will they focus life time cost and return on bids, even if the bid is on the higher side (for a plane like Rafale) or just the lowest bidder.?

There were some reports that says it will focus for the first time on life time costs and not on the cheapest bid, but MMRCA is a different story and can't be compared to this engine competition.

Now EJ out of pic, Kaveri will not have TVC, in near future to come. A big dissapointment though, the only hope if EF wins MRCA but that is how mcuh profitable dont know.

Don't forget we also have the Russian option when it comes to TVC, so there is still a chance, lets wait and see.

But after Sarkozy visits India, I think rafale will gain momentum, with UAE showing discomfort with Rafale upgrade program. I think the French will divert their attention to India. The French need to get some lucrative offer on the table here else MRCA is going to the F-18.

Latest news from Brazil is, that they want to add 12 Rafale M for their carrier to the 36 fighters for the air force. It seems the deal there is already fix and they are just waiting for the elections, UAE is just a matter of the costs I guess.


Bye!

 

[jha]

GE Aviation to Deliver 20 GE F414 Engines for HAL Tejas Mark II; Deliveries Begin in 2014

The GE F414 engine has been identified to power the HAL Tejas Mk-II fighter jet as it was the lowest bidder as compared to the Eurojet EJ200. GE F404 engine was employed throughout the development cycle of the HAL Tejas fighter jet also known as the Light Combat Aircraft.

This information was announced in a DRDO statement:
"The Price Negotiating Committee for the Alternate Engine for LCA Mk-2 has finalized the Comparative Statement of Tenders. The committee had its representations from Ministry of Defence, Defence Finance, ADA, DRDO, HAL, Indian Air Force, and Indian Navy. After evaluation and acceptance of the Technical offer provided by both Eurojet and GE Aviation, the commercial quotes were compared in detail and GE Aviation was declared as the lowest bidder. Further price negotiations and contract finalization will follow."

DRDO Chief Dr. Prahlada's comments:
"Price negotiations and contract finalization will be worked in the next two months...GE Aviation will deliver 20 GE-414 engines from 2014 and the rest will be manufactured in India under transfer of technology to our defence establishments...The GE-414 engines will be developed by the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) in Bangalore in collaboration with other DRDO agencies such as Aeronautical Development Agency and HAL...We have decided to go for a new engine for the LCA Mk-2 after the Indian Air Force (IAF) sought a better engine with higher rate of performance in terms of speed, thrust and vector than GE-404 engines being used in LCA Mark-1"

GE Aviation's contention for this deal was first reported in September 2009. GE Aviation's competitor - the Eurojet EJ-200 was a strong contender for this deal.

The selection of GE F414 for the HAL Tejas Mk-II will also strengthen the bids of Boeing F/A-18 and SAAB Gripen in the USD $10 billion Indian Air Force Multirole Combat Air Craft (MRCA) deal.

GE Aviation to Deliver 20 GE F414 Engines for HAL Tejas Mark II; Deliveries Begin in 2014 | India Defence

 

[SpArK]

Any body shed some light on supercruise ... since the engine is going to be more powerful and tejas already has a mach 2+speed and the already existing gripen, does supercruise.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Had it NOT been The ToT Clause and the "Sanction" Fear... F/A 18 is the Exact Thing IAF is looking for...

The Price is Gr8 Compared to Rafale.... ( My Fav . )
The Machine is War Tested
Technology is Best
Has Excellent A2G and A2A Capability..

What else can we dream of ?

I am NOW Quite Certain that F/A 18 will Win the MMRCA.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Hey Guys, please check out this post by "Death.By.Chocolate" on the MRCA thread. It makes technical sense which i would like to draw your attention to:

Originally Posted by Death.By.Chocolate
"Politics? The DRDO choice was a no brainer, by virtue of a later design the Rolls Royce offering may be more technically advanced but the Euro engine is longer, requiring an expensive and risky redesign of either the LCA or the engine itself - making an engine shorter is not a trivial task. The F-414 on the other hand is dimensionally identical to the GE 404 currently powering the LCA apart from a redesign of the air intake the F-414 does not impose any other change."

Thanks to "Death.By.Chocolate" for bringing in a technical input.

 

[gogbot]

This is BS move by Mod.

We will have to buy their Cut down defense hardware with intrusive EULA's

Any one who thinks the US will provide the same leniency as the Europeans is crazy.

Spin it what ever way you want. The US planes that are sold wont be at their most effective since we did not sign agreements such as CISOMA , and They will come with a host of operation problems due to EULA.

Today is sad day.

 

[kingdurgaking]

Hey Guys, please check out this post by "Death.By.Chocolate" on the MRCA thread. It makes technical sense which i would like to draw your attention to:

Originally Posted by Death.By.Chocolate
"Politics? The DRDO choice was a no brainer, by virtue of a later design the Rolls Royce offering may be more technically advanced but the Euro engine is longer, requiring an expensive and risky redesign of either the LCA or the engine itself - making an engine shorter is not a trivial task. The F-414 on the other hand is dimensionally identical to the GE 404 currently powering the LCA apart from a redesign of the air intake the F-414 does not impose any other change."

Thanks to "Death.By.Chocolate" for bringing in a technical input.

Please put your sense little... our LCA program is delayed substantially by US... further US didnt give any go head for consultancy... they why the hell they are being selected.. No matter what bull **** is given by US..

DRDO and MoD has never learnt anything... i really doubt now LCA will see the light..

 

[SpArK]

Please put your sense little... our LCA program is delayed substantially by US... further US didnt give any go head for consultancy... they why the hell they are being selected.. No matter what bull **** is given by US..

DRDO and MoD has never learnt anything... i really doubt now LCA will see the light..

I dont think guys at MoD and DRDO are that plain stupid.. all these factors might have been through their discussion board several times.
There maybe factors which are unknown to us. And this fear or further sanctions are BS. we are not gonna test another set of nukes anymore.

It would be a great start of a relationship and its heartening to see the fact that we get the best from both Russia and US (which is unimaginable for most others we know.)