Italy to send marines back to India

[janon]

Seems that indian govt could care less about some poor nameless expendable fishermen they only cared about pre election politics and muscle flexing. It's comical though it is very understandable. Indians, as we tend to observe under microscope here on this forum, are highly emotional people. This case has stirred up a lot of emotions obviously

What is the reasoning for that part? Because we stood up to Italy's attempted betrayal, and actually got them back? Or because we had the balls to chase the ship and take the shooters into custody? How much does your govt care for your people, even your soldiers at salala, forget fishermen?

By the way those two fishermen are not nameless. Their names are recognizable in every household that watches the news. India actually does care for the lives of its people, no matter what their profession. We don't sit back and let foreigners kill our people every day, and remain apathetic. Do you know the names of the victims of the latest drone strikes? Of course you wont, because nobody cares. But India is a country that was prepared to cut off multi billion dollar trade relations for the sake of these two fishermen. I really don't think you are in any moral standing to pontificate on who cares for their people and who doesn't.

In India, Fiat justitia ruat caelum - justice will be served, though the heavens may fall. In Pakistan, justice wont be served, though drones may fall.

 

[Abhishek_]

Indians, as we tend to observe under microscope here on this forum, are highly emotional people. This case has stirred up a lot of emotions obviously

as opposed to the blatant ignorance Pakistanis display when their kith n kin are murdered in front of the world.
please continue focusing on shahrukh khan and other assorted Indians, that is of course the core competency on PDF

 

[neehar]

Seems that indian govt could care less about some poor nameless expendable fishermen they only cared about pre election politics and muscle flexing. It's comical though it is very understandable. Indians, as we tend to observe under microscope here on this forum, are highly emotional people. This case has stirred up a lot of emotions obviously

fisher men are no less indian..they are equally indian..and our leaders acted because our soverignity is at stake..besides if u think that our politicians acted because elections are coming its a good sign because in democracies govt's duty is to listen to their citizens.and they just did their job

 

[notsuperstitious]

If being a civilian means not being dumb, so be it.

 

[Peshwa]

Wasn't pre- meditated murder either.

With all respect - none of you civilians understand and never would understand how soldiers think and act. They're trained to make split second decisions - no go "uhhhhh why is he zooming towards us" ... You're not ALLOWED nor can you afford to think things through so much - in the heat of the moment.

Maybe that's not good enough and you still want to drink their blood and lob nukes at Milan and Rome laugh but its important that this point be made

Strange how the benefit of doubt for a similar "non-civilian" reaction is not given to indian security forces being attacked in a warzone like Kashmir...

well...next time some dumbass from J&K decides to pelt stones or "zooms" suspiciously towards our security forces and ends up meeting his maker, dont cry foul since its simply a knee jerk reaction as you claim...and of course not pre-meditated either...

Or is this another one of those times that you simply cant fathom that India was able to diplomatically flex its muscles to achieve its objective? or maybe this just rings bells of the impotency of Pakistani diplomacy in similar cases....

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Strange how the benefit of doubt for a similar "non-civilian" reaction is not given to indian security forces being attacked in a warzone like Kashmir...

well...next time some dumbass from J&K decides to pelt stones or "zooms" suspiciously towards our security forces and ends up meeting his maker, dont cry foul since its simply a knee jerk reaction as you claim...and of course not pre-meditated either...

Or is this another one of those times that you simply cant fathom that India was able to diplomatically flex its muscles to achieve its objective? or maybe this just rings bells of the impotency of Pakistani diplomacy in similar cases....

Strange how you juxtapose a maritime encounter in which faces can't even be made out completely versus an on the ground situation were a 15 year old with a stone screaming "go back" to occupation forces

And at any rate, CPRF cowards are never held accountable and are given a free hand

Forget diplomacy for a few seconds and look at it from the perspective of a marine who is already on edge looking for pirates in troubled waters. I'm just being the devils advocate here. Then again I wouldn't expect people who've been civilians their whole lives who've never even been in a combat or potential combat situation when nerves are on edge and instincts preclude deep thinking

since Indian fishermen are disadvantaged to be mistaken as Somalian pirates then the govt/coast guard should brief these fishermen to carry something that can be identifiable

A mutually agreed upon marking on the dingy/vessel or a flag of some sort.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Remember what happened to the USS Cole. All it took was a dingy the size of what your fish men use

 

[Hellraiser007]

Strange how you juxtapose a maritime encounter in which faces can't even be made out completely versus an on the ground situation were a 15 year old with a stone screaming "go back" to occupation forces

And at any rate, CPRF cowards are never held accountable and are given a free hand

Forget diplomacy for a few seconds and look at it from the perspective of a marine who is already on edge looking for pirates in troubled waters. I'm just being the devils advocate here. Then again I wouldn't expect people who've been civilians theirs hole lives who've never even been in a combat or potential combat situation when nerves are on edge and instincts preclude deep thinking

From your posts it is clear that you are saying the situation in J and K is different from Marines at sea.

Soldiers react to any suspicious activity which can lead to potential danger. In J and K a stone peltor can also quickly become a grenade thrower, recent reports suggest militants are hiring teens for grenade attacks.

where as

In the case of Marines the boat belongs to fisher men and they are unarmed, Marines are on a merchant ship who are on the higher ground. They also carry equipment see any suspicious looking boat and to decide whether it is a hostile one.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Um, yeah it was pretty clear what I was saying could I be any clearer?

As I said - unless your fishermen are retards, it takes just ten minutes to "brief" them on the situation and drill in them the dos and do nots. I feel that waving and firing shots in the air is international language for "stop dead in your tracks"

But again - just being the devils advocate. I'm sorry and do feel pity that 2 poor families lost a breadwinner

 

[Abhishek_]

@IN members, do you really have to argue it out with abu. he has a right to his opinion, you have yours. now please let the courts decide on this matter.
this bickering is quite childish.

 

[janon]

since Indian fishermen are disadvantaged to be mistaken as Somalian pirates then the govt/coast guard should brief these fishermen to carry something that can be identifiable

A mutually agreed upon marking on the dingy/vessel or a flag of some sort.

Umm...Since Somalia is some 2700 miles away from where they were, and India and Somalia are separated by one sea and one ocean, the likelihood of Somali pirates in fishing boats appearing anywhere in that region would be nil. It would be as unlikely as encountering polar bears in rajasthan or pandas in Punjab.

Assuming that they weren't lost by 2700 miles, or marine officers did not know geographical locations of the world's continents, I don't see how they could have made that mistake. So I don't think the time has come yet for Indian fishermen or fishing boats to wear badges or sport banners saying they are not Somali pirates.

 

[arp2041]

Umm...Since Somalia is some 2700 miles away from where they were, and India and Somalia are separated by one sea and one ocean, the likelihood of Somali pirates in fishing boats appearing anywhere in that region would be nil. It would be as unlikely as encountering polar bears in rajasthan or pandas in Punjab.

Assuming that they weren't lost by 2700 miles, or marine officers did not know geographical locations of the world's continents, I don't see how they could have made that mistake. So I don't think the time has come yet for Indian fishermen or fishing boats to wear badges or sport banners saying they are not Somali pirates.

@janon there were some reports earlier than this incident that IN/ICG has caught PIRATES (Somalis or not) very close to the coast of Lakshwadeep.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Umm...Since Somalia is some 2700 miles away from where they were, and India and Somalia are separated by a sea and an ocean, the likelihood of Somali pirates in fishing boats appearing anywhere in that region would be nil. It would be as unlikely as encountering polar bears in rajasthan or pandas in Punjab.

Assuming that they weren't lost by 2700 miles, or marine officers did not know geographical locations of the world's continents, I don't see how they could have made that mistake. So I don't think the time has come yet for Indian fishermen or fishing boats to wear badges or sport banners saying they are not Somali pirates.

You'd be amazed how far waters these bastard pirates can venture out to

Forget armaments; They now have self sealing aux fuel cells, jury rigged marine gps guidance sat sets (the best money can buy) which even id love to get my hand on; they have intelligence counter intelligence and even ability to hack int'l shipping registries/database so they know who is going where and when

If you really believe they are concentrated in and around Aden gulf then boy are you in for a rude surprise.

Who knows maybe they can dock in Mumbai and sip on gin & tonic with khatt at oberoi hotel if they wanted to

 

[Bang Galore]

Wasn't pre- meditated murder either.

With all respect - none of you civilians understand and never would understand how soldiers think and act. They're trained to make split second decisions - no go "uhhhhh why is he zooming towards us" ... You're not ALLOWED nor can you afford to think things through so much - in the heat of the moment.

Maybe that's not good enough and you still want to drink their blood and lob nukes at Milan and Rome laugh but its important that this point be made

You don't seem to have read my views on that matter. I'm after no one's blood. That defence(that you made or any other) would still have to be made in a inquiry/court of law. Two unarmed men have died. The Marines claim to have only fired warning shots, so how did the fishermen die? Accidentally? Both of them? Questions exists, explanation have to be sought. I for one have never held them as guilty, that would have to be established after following the due course of law.

 

[Developereo]

@Developereo Why on earth will we arrest the Italian MArines if they are under bail?

I never claimed that they would be arrested; only that they will stay in the Italian Embassy.

Actually, this is a clear win for India. Since there is an agreement that they won't face the death penalty, it clearly indicates that Italy has agreed to let the Indian SC try them under Indian laws. The fact that they are staying in the Italian Embassy is just a charade to fool the Italian public.