Italy takes India to int'l arbitration over marines

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Yeah, I remember one of your judges Mr. Iftikhar Chaudhary, he was a real firebrand!!

In the end courts can do only so much. There is always a threat to brave justices from nefarious interests be it politicians, militants or industrialists. What i do believe is once the judges have given their verdict whether good or bad, it must be enforced with full power of the state. If rule of law collapses or is not enforced it is then the country becomes a failed state. Nothing else is more important for a country.

In India we had a dark time during emergency when all judges were puppets of Indira Gandhi, everyone knew that judges verdict regarding emergency was not correct but still our army and police enforced it. People waited and filed appeals in Supreme court and the full strength of Supreme Court i.e. all twelve judges delivered a final verdict which is hailed as a landmark judgement all across the world from US to Bangladesh. Just a few months ago US Supreme Court Judge quoted that verdict in some case.

In India the Supreme Court remained Independent at all time but in Pakistan it only became independent after the Lawyers movement. Still there are pending issues and the "doctrine of necessity" still lingers on though politicians think it is buried. We are hoping for some interesting decisions coming soon but not with high hopes.

As long as the literacy rate improves till then the political systems or any other system that gives protection can not termed as being fair and just. There are going to be many loopholes and people will continue to be corrupt.

I remember one of my teacher who was a former Justice of Federal Sharia Court stated that one of his judment was considered by the US Supreme Court in toto while deciding a similar case in the US.

The recent decision by the US Supreme Court (same sex marriages) was known to be in favor because there was a lot of public support and the recent political issues were also regarding freedom of expression and right to life.

 

[Spectre]

Jury system? Idk why Indian subcontinent doesn't have a jury court.

Are you serious? Jury System in India?? A percentage of population is corrupt, poor and illiterate, divided on racial, linguistic, ethnic lines and easily misled. How will they understand the intricacy of Legal arguments?

Jury system is also insanely expensive.

Jury system is for developed countries.

Also Independent India had Jury system in India till the famous Nanavati case which inspired several bollywood movies. After that fiasco we did away with that system for good.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Jury system? Idk why Indian subcontinent doesn't have a jury court.

Well there is jury system but not in the way it is in UK or Canada.
In India and Pakistan it is known as Panchayat (gathering of the elders) normally this is in the villages. The decisions are normally primitive.

What I was intending was in form of blood money... Normally it is done out of court and the state is not part of it. However the State may still want to prosecute the accused but he / she is going to get free because of the Double Jeopardy. No one can be punished for the same crime twice.

Are you serious? Jury System in India?? A percentage of population is corrupt, poor and illiterate, divided on racial, linguistic, ethnic lines and easily misled. How will they understand the intricacy of Legal arguments?

Jury system is also insanely expensive.

Jury system is for developed countries.

Also Independent India had Jury system in India till the famous Nanavati case which inspired several bollywood movies. After that fiasco we did away with that system for good.

The jury system in UK is only in the lower courts Magistrate and County Court. Even there the Judge has the final say and is a Law Graduate where as the Jury is made up of ordinary citizens. There is a famous ruling of Lord Dennings where he Stated "What would a common man think" . Its noting more then the saying of Shakespeare "To be or not to be".

For these things to be understood by the People of Subcontinent they need to be educated which is going to take time.

 

[JanjaWeed]

Well there is jury system but not in the way it is in UK or Canada.
In India and Pakistan it is known as Panchayat (gathering of the elders) normally this is in the villages. The decisions are normally primitive.

What I was intending was in form of blood money... Normally it is done out of court and the state is not part of it. However the State may still want to prosecute the accused but he / she is going to get free because of the Double Jeopardy. No one can be punished for the same crime twice.

I think blood money was already paid to the victim's family by Italians. But it has no locus standi in Indian judicial system, neither the POV of the victim's family. State can still prosecute & punish the guilty to the fullest.

 

[East or West India Best]

Also Independent India had Jury system in India till the famous Nanavati case which inspired several bollywood movies. After that fiasco we did away with that system for good.

What happened in this case?

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

I think blood money was already paid to the victim's family by Italians. But it has no locus standi in Indian judicial system, neither the POV of the victim's family. State can still prosecute & punish the guilty to the fullest.

If it is mentioned in the constitution or in any act then only it would have any authority as I am not sure if India has this.

In Pakistan it is there and hence once Blood Money is paid the government can not prosecute further. Remember the case of Raymond Davies.

may be @Spectre can answer regarding Indian law.

 

[Spectre]

What happened in this case?

A Naval officer shot and killed the lover of his wife who was also his best friend and then went and surrendered to the police.

He was Parsi and at that time Parsi community in Bombay was very influential. They owned the major newspapers and spun the story in such a way that Murderer was portrayed as a wronged man who committed a righteous kill.

The jury acquitted the Naval Officer even though this was an open and shut case of pre-mediated murder.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

A Naval officer shot and killed the lover of his wife who was also his best friend and then went and surrendered to the police.

He was Parsi and at that time Parsi community in Bombay was very influential. They owned the major newspapers and spun the story in such a way that Murderer was portrayed as a wronged man who committed a righteous kill.

The jury acquitted the Naval Officer even though this was an open and shut case of pre-mediated murder.

It was more to do with Honour Killing which was legal at that time...Secondly if there is lot of speculation in the media it is also very difficult to not get influenced by the articles and tv coverage. This gives the Judge a preconceived vision hence the accused is not held guilty because that would become a biased ruling and would be stricken down at appeal.

 

[Spectre]

It was more to do with Honour Killing which was legal at that time...Secondly if there is lot of speculation in the media it is also very difficult to not get influenced by the articles and tv coverage. This gives the Judge a preconceived vision hence the accused is not held guilty because that would become a biased ruling and would be stricken down at appeal.

I am sorry but it was illegal, honor killing has not been legal in India and the accused was charged under section 302 of IPC.

High court over turned the verdict terming the verdict of jury trial as perverse

 

[The_Sidewinder]

You cant imagine how I eagerly wait for India to be embarassed in front of the whole world!

I hope Pakistan offers Italy support and if required a combined military force! Both Pakistan and Italy military force can match India!



I see you already surrendered!!!!!

As I said we dont give a damn.

 

[Dr Gupta]

It will have to free the marines eventhough they killed Indians! It will prove in front of the world that no one cares about Indian lives! India is a weak country.

They already paid the families out

 

[Manindra]

Haven't they failed ??? Denied Justice? Arresting the Italian Ambassador? No Charge Sheet yet...


The marines are not just Italian but also EU citizens...Now you the maths...



What you say about the warm treatment is correct but when it comes to common issues among the EU then they are going to be with Italy...Even if it has to be against the individual policies of the state.

Why do Indian's have to bring Pakistan in every single argument. Can you not for once stay focused to the issue at hand?

Think of this as a logical and legitimate argument between two adults keeping aside all other political differences regarding the flag of origin and present position.

When we arrested Italian ambassador?

Since when EU start issuing their own passport?

 

[uparyupari]

Is it proven that these Marines are guilty? They maintain that they didn't shoot these marines.

Lest you forget sir onus is on the prosecution to prove the guilt. That's how Indian laws work and till now after three years these Marines have not still been chargesheeted.

If the case was so clear cut then why the delay in chargesheeting these marines?

Lets cut the BS, shall we ?

Its pretty evident the "Marines" shot the Indian fishermen so now they get to eat $hit. No sympathy from me.

Now if they want to hide behind "technicalities" then our Law will take its own course. They will not either slow up or speed up for anyone. We have our own "TECHNICALITIES", two can play that game. So the next time they want to shoot an India, they better take that into consideration.

They don't like it ? Too bad. We don't like them shooting our people. Case closed.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Since when EU start issuing their own passport?

Passport is not issued of EU but the citizens living in the EU belonging to member states are considered citizens that is the reason Freedom of Movement of persons.

We have our own "TECHNICALITIES"

40 yrs to give justice in criminal cases...Time is much more for civil matters...

 

[Manindra]

Passport is not issued of EU but the citizens living in the EU belonging to member states are considered citizens that is the reason Freedom of Movement of persons.

Freedom of movement within EU not international.