Israel's U.N. ambassador discusses the Mideast situation

[Solomon2]

In the absence of 'objectivity' - No !

Really? So because I am a passionate believer that the Earth is spheroidal rather than flat means that it cannot be an objective fact that the Earth is spheroidal? Just because I passionately believe 2+2=4 means that 2+2=4 cannot be an objective truth?

I'm accustomed to thinking of Pakistanis as cowardly and waffling but shouldn't this make even you blush, Armstrong?

Unfortunately in 'such things' it is 'conjecture' that sells...nothing more...nothing less.

Then why not speak up and tell your society that it shouldn't be this way any more? Do you know how many Pakistanis I've met who know their country is on the road to damnation but won't speak up to change a thing? They flee to the U.S. or Canada or Britain or choose to corrupt their country further to their personal profit. The result is further injustice and violence at home. Why can't Pakistanis like yourself accept the risk - both bodily and socially - to attempt to improve their society?

 

[problemfreeleader]

If israel usa want can bring peace in middle east just in 3 weeks but if they really want it but...

 

[Armstrong]

Really? So because I am a passionate believer that the Earth is spheroidal rather than flat means that it cannot be an objective fact that the Earth is spheroidal? Just because I passionately believe 2+2=4 means that 2+2=4 cannot be an objective truth?

You've got to be kidding me - You're taking scientific observations backed by tonnes of evidence & looking for parity between it & normative statements ?

I'm accustomed to thinking of Pakistanis as cowardly and waffling but shouldn't this make even you blush, Armstrong?

Then why not speak up and tell your society that it shouldn't be this way any more? Do you know how many Pakistanis I've met who know their country is on the road to damnation but won't speak up to change a thing? They flee to the U.S. or Canada or Britain or choose to corrupt their country further to their personal profit. The result is further injustice and violence at home. Why can't Pakistanis like yourself accept the risk - both bodily and socially - to attempt to improve their society?

I'm here in Pakistan doing my bit as our Overseas Pakistanis doing their bit ! We recognize that there are grave issues with Pakistan even if we might not all agree with their rhyme & meter.

At any rate iff we need your advice, believe me, I'd write you a letter myself - Till that time spare us your condescending BS !

 

[Solomon2]

You've got to be kidding me - You're taking scientific observations backed by tonnes of evidence & looking for parity between it & normative statements ?

Normative statements are value judgments. They are not meant to be confused with issues of fact. Were my grandparents killed in the Nazi Holocaust or not? To you, this is a "normative statement"? Obviously, you're confusing normative statements with facts to avoid embarrassing truths. Thus, you remain in chains.

iff we need your advice, believe me, I'd write you a letter myself - Till that time spare us your condescending BS

O.K., here is someone else's "condescending BS", as you like to put it:

From the Book of John (New Testament):

8.31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[c] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth -

You may not want somebody else's advice but does that mean you don't need it? I suggest you suppress your hubris - your unjustifiable pride. If you don't accept the truth - that being a Pakistani like yourself is a deeply embarrassing and ignoble thing - how can you possibly assert truth from falsehood, right from wrong, and thus work to create a better society?

 

[Armstrong]

Normative statements are value judgments. They are not meant to be confused with issues of fact. Were my grandparents killed in the Nazi Holocaust or not? To you, this is a "normative statement"? Obviously, you're confusing normative statements with facts to avoid embarrassing truths. Thus, you remain in chains.

If you're Grandparents were killed in the Holocaust then it ain't a Normative Statement is it ?

O.K., here is someone else's "condescending BS", as you like to put it:

From the Book of John (New Testament):

8.31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would[c] do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth -

You may not want somebody else's advice but does that mean you don't need it? I suggest you suppress your hubris - your unjustifiable pride. If you don't accept the truth - that being a Pakistani like yourself is a deeply embarrassing and ignoble thing - how can you possibly assert truth from falsehood, right from wrong, and thus work to create a better society?

Do not cite the Scripture to me & try to market your narratives as the Gospel Truth (metaphorically) !

It is not hubris but a genuine feeling of 'Your story or that of the Palestinians doesn't add up' that concerns me !

At any rate - God Bless the Jews & the Jewish State - But I don't give a foOk !

The only Jews or Israelites I care about are the ones who immigrated from Pakistan - If they were mistreated, I owe them an apology & I will always have fraternal feelings for them !

The rest - Yeah...I'm not really that bothered because well we - they & us - are not that important to each other in our daily lives & I don't plan on winning a humanitarian accolade by affirming or condemning every act of goodness or evil in the world !

 

[Solomon2]

Do not cite the Scripture to me & try to market your narratives as the Gospel Truth (metaphorically) !

I don't want to "market [my] narratives". I don't want you to take anything I say as "the Gospel Truth". I'm reminding you of what Jesus said: that there is truth out there beyond subjective narratives and if you are a decent person you will investigate for yourself to discover the truths. If you're conscientious, humble, and brave you'll report it here.

At any rate - God Bless the Jews & the Jewish State - But I don't give a foOk ! The only Jews or Israelites I care about are the ones who immigrated from Pakistan - If they were mistreated, I owe them an apology & I will always have fraternal feelings for them !

I think you see what's needed but you're letting your anger help you reject it. You have to side with truth and assert in publicly to value it higher than lies. Only by changing your society's value structure can your country advance socially and politically.

As near as I can tell, the beginning of demonization - even pre-dating the two-nation theory and its accompanying hatred of Hindus - was the rejection by Indian Muslims of the right of Jews to re-settle The Holy Land. This denial of national, civil, property, and human rights is the foundation of hate in your land. Once you accepted it could be done to the Zionists, it has been an easy step since to extend the denial of such things to Zionists' alleged supporters, be they Hindu, Ahamadi, Christian, or even the current PTI chairman.

Attack and destroy the root and the evil growth will die and your land can flourish. So why not start today?

 

[Armstrong]

So why not start today?

Possibly because it is not my hate or anger or some inherent bias of mine that prevents me from agreeing with your opinion on why & where we went wrong or declaring your narratives as the objective truth, it is a difference of opinion & the recognition that your side of the story is neither as righteous as you would portray it to be nor does it add up !

 

[Solomon2]

Possibly because it is not my hate or anger or some inherent bias of mine that prevents me from agreeing with your opinion on why & where we went wrong or declaring your narratives as the objective truth, it is a difference of opinion & the recognition that your side of the story is neither as righteous as you would portray it to be nor does it add up !

I added the last paragraph because I suspect you already know the truth. But if you want to play it the other way, by no means accept my "opinion" at face value. Just investigate yourself and report back, citing your proofs, evidences, historical documents, etc.

Of course, you don't want to do this, either. First, it's work. Second, you're scared of what you'll find. You aren't the first Pakistani to feel this way, nor the last.

But the third issue is the most important: Pakistani society needs the change in value structure. You don't even bother to dispute it. What you really don't want, I guess, is to stick your neck out, for fear of having it cut off - either literally or metaphorically.

That's the thing. Are you going to let your selfishness over-ride your duty to society and nation? You know how corrupt your country's officials are. So you know you can't leave it to them. Are you going to join them or work for something better?

 

[Armstrong]

I added the last paragraph because I suspect you already know the truth. But if you want to play it the other way, by no means accept my "opinion" at face value. Just investigate yourself and report back, citing your proofs, evidences, historical documents, etc.

Of course, you don't want to do this, either. First, it's work. Second, you're scared of what you'll find. You aren't the first Pakistani to feel this way, nor the last.

Oh I have but unfortunately most of the time it gets labelled as 'Propaganda', a cry of 'Anti-Semitism' is issued or if the critic turns out to be a Jew himself, he gets labelled as a 'Self-Hating' Jew !

But then, honestly, why should I care ? What is Israel worth to me ? Nothing !

You're not the first Israeli to be so utterly self-righteous & condescending so spare me the lecturing !

But the third issue is the most important: Pakistani society needs the change in value structure. You don't even bother to dispute it. What you really don't want, I guess, is to stick your neck out, for fear of having it cut off - either literally or metaphorically.

That's the thing. Are you going to let your selfishness over-ride your duty to society and nation? You know how corrupt your country's officials are. So you know you can't leave it to them. Are you going to join them or work for something better?

I don't bother to dispute that there are 'issues' with our society because there are issues with every society & through social evolution those issues are either eliminated or worst replaced with even worse ones !

But let me worry about my society, my corrupt officials & most of all my-soon-to-be-severed-neck !

If I need your moral support & valuable guidance, believe me, I'd ask for it !