Israelistine?

[MarkovChain]

Yes, so when countered you are not able to answer because of your lack of knowledge about the subject which we already saw. Big surprise.

Yes indeed

 

[SQ8]

extra a specific extra tax .

Actually the Jizya is a rather complex system

Im not sure what is so complicated about it. What it essentially is, is an administrative replacement for the religious obligation of Zakat(alms) for Muslims to be put on non-Muslims. Nothing more than tax to be used for the state. Essentially, everybody contributed to the state.

 

[al-Hasani]

Im not sure what is so complicated about it. What it essentially is, is an administrative replacement for the religious obligation of Zakat(alms) for Muslims to be put on non-Muslims. Nothing more than tax to be used for the state. Essentially, everybody contributed to the state.

Complex in the sense that it was interpreted differently historically and that its use DURING THOSE AGES was considered progressive as the religious minorities in return got full protection and were allowed to fully observe their religions. In most Western European countries let alone Christian/non-Muslim countries until not long ago only 1 religion was allowed. Mostly Christianity. There was no room for a Muslim, Jew or whatever to observe his religion let alone be present in that country unless on a state visit.

So in comparison Jiyza (AT THE TIME) was vastly more progressive. It was just a per capita tax that all citizens could afford and in return they obtained rights despite being different from the majority.

 

[500]

Arab states have higher per capita incomes than most of Europe. Qatar's per capita income is 2X that of the US. There is no comparison, unless you want to compare with Gaza.

Arab League GNP per capita is 9,347 $ PPP (nominal is even lower). Thats equal to Mongolia and Sri Lanka and almost two times lower than Mexico. Tiny oil rich emirates changes nothing in that big picture.

 

[al-Hasani]

Arab League GNP per capita is 9,347 $ PPP (nominal is even lower). Thats equal to Mongolia and Sri Lanka and almost two times lower than Mexico. Tiny oil rich emirates changes nothing in that big picture.

Give me the numbers from this quarter of 2014. Those quoted in this thread were 4 years old. In this thread mainly the GCC was discussed and it's the size of India. So hardly tiny.

Yes and in the Arab world countries such as Mauritania, Sudan and Somalia are also included.

While Israel is a tiny country made up by migrants from abroad and which also receives huge funds from abroad. Totally different comparisons.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Im not sure what is so complicated about it. What it essentially is, is an administrative replacement for the religious obligation of Zakat(alms) for Muslims to be put on non-Muslims. Nothing more than tax to be used for the state. Essentially, everybody contributed to the state.

Because it was a tax that was extra and only levied on non-Muslims, as well as other restrictions. I am not saying their situation was a bad one. I am only saying that it was less than equal and that was part of a number of laws and social norms.

 

[al-Hasani]

Because it was a tax that was extra and only levied on non-Muslims, as well as other restrictions. I am not saying their situation was a bad one. I am only saying that it was less than equal and that was part of a number of laws and social norms.

Yes, but at that time there were no such rights even or options in the Christian world. Back then any dissent was put harshly down. I mean do we need to mention what the Catholic Church was doing and how many MILLIONS of their OWN that they were killing due to claims of witchcraft etc.?

Also Jiyza was just a tax per capita. In return minorities were given full military protection in case of any attacks on them and were allowed to fully observe their religions. The tax was not big either. Everyone could afford it. Moreover it was not even always de facto observed.

I mean there is a reason why Jews for all those years preferred to live in Muslim controlled areas (Al-Andalus) in Europe than the non-Muslim controlled areas.

Now we are not talking about the situation today which is the opposite (more rights of minorities in the West than in the Muslim world) but the "East" gave more rights for minorities for a much longer time period than the West.

Anyway we are off-topic as this current topic is about the statehood of Palestine and Israel and it seems to me that certain users want to turn this discussion into another topic.

 

[MarkovChain]

Because it was a tax that was extra and only levied on non-Muslims, as well as other restrictions. I am not saying their situation was a bad one. I am only saying that it was less than equal and that was part of a number of laws and social norms.

They will never understand and keep using the concept of relative comparison with Christianity. Difficult to unlearn propaganda.

 

[500]

Give me the numbers from this quarter of 2014. Those quoted in this thread were 4 years old. In this thread mainly the GCC was discussed and it's the size of India. So hardly tiny.

Its 2014 numbers.

While Israel is a tiny country made up by migrants from abroad and which also receives huge funds from abroad. Totally different comparisons.

Aid to Israel is only 1/5 of our defence spends.

Also 1/3 of Israel population are either Arabs or ultraorthodox, who don't participate much in economics.

 

[SQ8]

Because it was a tax that was extra and only levied on non-Muslims, as well as other restrictions. I am not saying their situation was a bad one. I am only saying that it was less than equal and that was part of a number of laws and social norms.

Well, social norms aside there were a lot of differing accounts on the usage of the tax and its application. And as the territory within the Caliphate grew, so did the issues with accountability in implementing this tax. In either case, it was implemented as money to service the state and its needs. The question of a Israelistine however, has little to do with the viability of an Islamic state today based on the social norms of the 6th-12th century.

As you put it so well, Israel is there as a reactionary protectorate for Jews and Jews alone. Sure, all are welcome but lets not confuse or dilute the reason it exists. It is a security apparatus to ensure Jewish survival and will continue to be that. If their leadership calculates that it needs to do so by wiping out every Palestinian then in their mind they will be justified to do so because that will align will the core ethos of the state; protect the Jewish population within Israel.

They will never understand and keep using the concept of relative comparison with Christianity. Difficult to unlearn propaganda.

Difficult to unlearn bigoted ideals as well against a particular religion.. especially if its popular to take a negative view against it from the get go. So I can pity your condition as well.

 

[MarkovChain]

Difficult to unlearn bigoted ideals as well against a particular religion.. especially if its popular to take a negative view against it from the get go. So I can pity your condition as well.

Isn't this from the Koran that Hamas uses as their charter? Forgive me if not.

"The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews [and kill them]; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!".

 

[SQ8]

Isn't this from the Koran that Hamas uses as their charter? Forgive me if not.

"The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews [and kill them]; until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!".

As I stated before, ignoramus for those who spend 5 minutes on the internet with bias and bigotry will find only the same filth they seek. This is NOT from the Quran. This is reported to be a saying of the prophet regarding the end of times and armageddon.

These sayings are NOT the word of god, nor are they all accurate either. Some are weakly reported, others out of context.
So no, your attempt at trying to defile a religion has less solid ground. Please come up with something better, you seem to be motivated enough.

 

[al-Hasani]

@500

Show me the link for that data. Besides it's irrelevant as we are dealing with 22 countries while this discussion was about the GCC. Just Somalia, Sudan and Mauritania alone drags the numbers down heavily.

Comparing tiny Israel with 22 countries in total in both Northern Africa, Southern Hemisphere (Comoros) and Western Asia, about 450-500 million peoples etc. with tiny Israel makes no sense at all. Lebanon next by is the only comparable country although much smaller than Israel as well and war-torn.

@Oscar Please don't bother with that clown.

 

[MarkovChain]

As I stated before, ignoramus for those who spend 5 minutes on the internet with bias and bigotry will find only the same filth they seek. This is NOT from the Quran. This is reported to be a saying of the prophet regarding the end of times and armageddon.

These sayings are NOT the word of god, nor are they all accurate either. Some are weakly reported, others out of context.
So no, your attempt at trying to defile a religion has less solid ground. Please come up with something better, you seem to be motivated enough.

Then why is their charter not condemned? Do you expect that someone who has such a charter can co-exist peacefully with those who they hate?

@Oscar Please don't bother with that clown.

Personal insult?

 

[ResurgentIran]

Its 2014 numbers.


Aid to Israel is only 1/5 of our defence spends.

Also 1/3 of Israel population are either Arabs or ultraorthodox, who don't participate much in economics.

Well thats a big problem because the ultraorthodox are reproducing like bunny rabbits and will eventually outnumber the secular Jews.