Israeli Settlers 'Desecrate Christian Monastery'

[Holmes]

Israeli police are investigating after vandals attacked a famous Christian monastery - setting fire to its door and spray-painting "Jesus is -----" on the wall.

The Latrun Monastery, on occupied land in the Ayalon Valley, 15 miles west of Jerusalem, was daubed with pro-settler graffiti.

Officers believe it was in possible retaliation for the eviction of 50 families from the nearby unauthorised Migron settlement on Sunday.

Migron, near the West Bank city of Ramallah, was cleared after an Israelicourt ruled it had been illegally built on Palestinian land.

The settlers left the area quietly and moved to temporary housing at another settlement, but eight youthswho protested were arrested.

Police were warning of possible reprisal attacks from a vigilante settler group known as Price Tag. The group says its name refers to theprice to be paid for stopping settlement in the occupied West Bank.

They have targeted mosques and, less commonly, Christian churches in the past.

Father Paul Saouma, the monastery'sabbot, looked dazed as he inspected the damage. "Not nice. What can I say? What can I say?" he said.

An Israeli rabbi visiting the Trappist monastery called the attack an "ugly event".

"As a rabbi and as an Israeli citizen I am ashamed today, and I am deeply troubled by the fact that this is not the first time that such an event takes place in Israel, " said Rabbi Gilad Kariv, head of Reform Judaism in Israel.

"We need to make sure that the other faiths, other communities, feel secure here."

The monastery is located on land Israel captured in 1967. The United Nations says all Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal.

Israel disputes this and distinguishes between about 120 settlements it has sanctioned and another 100 builtby settlers without authorisation.

Some 500,000 Israelis now live on occupied land, nearly all of them in east Jerusalem or the West Bank.
Crucify these anti-christs...
Israeli Settlers 'Desecrate Christian Monastery' | Orange UK

 

[Solomon2]

The monastery is located on land Israel captured in 1967. The United Nations says all Israeli settlements in the West Bank are illegal. Israel disputes this and distinguishes between about 120 settlements it has sanctioned and another 100 builtby settlers without authorisation.

Indeed, there is no doubt that the majority of U.N. states SAY the settlements are illegal but under international law the W.B. is designated for "close settlement" by Jews, provided that the civil and property rights of Arabs are respected.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

Typical Zionist behavior, this is no "news" as it happens all the time. Christians and Muslims are treated like subhumans.

 

[Thorn]

maybe they did it in self defence

 

[Solomon2]

Typical Zionist behavior, this is no "news" as it happens all the time. Christians and Muslims are treated like subhumans.

Count the minarets in Tel Aviv and the increasing Christian population in Israel (in contrast to other states in the middle east) and you'll have to eat those words.

 

[RFS_Br]

Indeed, there is no doubt that the majority of U.N. states SAY the settlements are illegal but under international law the W.B. is designated for "close settlement" by Jews, provided that the civil and property rights of Arabs are respected.

This is untrue. It is not legal to move that country move its population into occupied territory: that, in itself, is against international law and constitutes colonialism. And even if it weren't, Israel's conduct would still be illegal under your own parameters, as Palestinians' property rights aren't respected: I can adduce here many reports about cisterns, tents and homes that the IDF has demolished in the West Bank, and lands (even private lands) of Palestinians that have been taken over by the colonists.

Count the minarets in Tel Aviv and the increasing Christian population in Israel (in contrast to other states in the middle east) and you'll have to eat those words.

The Christian population in Israel increases only because of the arrival of Russian immigrants (some of whom are part-Jewish or pretend to be). When Israel was created, however, the aboriginal Christian population -- Palestinian Christians left in droves along with their Muslim brethren. More Palestinian Christians live today in refugee camps throughout Levantine Arab countries than in Israel.

 

[Solomon2]

This is untrue. It is not legal to move that country move its population into occupied territory -

That doesn't apply to the territory of the British Mandate, and the this law only applies to forced transfers, not market ones. If you apply it, you should deal with the issue that of Jews forced out by the Egyptian, Syrian, and Jordanian armies.

...Israel's conduct would still be illegal under your own parameters, as Palestinians' property rights aren't respected: I can adduce here many reports about cisterns, tents and homes that the IDF has demolished in the West Bank -

That doesn't mean the property rights of Arabs in the West Bank are permitted to expand into state-owned land; they are not.

-- lands (even private lands) of Palestinians that have been taken over by the colonists.

Purchases of Arab lands by Jews do happen, and Israeli courts evict Jews who illegally settle on privately-held Arab land.

No, the issue isn't Jewish settlements. The issue is Israel's existence, the fact Israel's enemies seek to kill millions of people. This media-attempted "death of a thousand cuts" is meant to obscure that, confusing the good with the evil.

The Christian population in Israel increases only because of the arrival of Russian immigrants (some of whom are part-Jewish or pretend to be).

Interesting. Document this story and proof of your specific claim, please.

When Israel was created, however, the aboriginal Christian population -- Palestinian Christians left in droves along with their Muslim brethren.

They made a foolish choice. The Arabs who chose to remain in Israel have done better than almost any Arab population in the Middle East, outside of the oil-drenched Persian Gulf states. Many Christians remaining in Palestinian Arab-controlled areas have departed over the past few decades.

 

[KingMamba]

That doesn't apply to the territory of the British Mandate, and the this law only applies to forced transfers, not market ones. If you apply it, you should deal with the issue that of Jews forced out by the Egyptian, Syrian, and Jordanian armies.

That doesn't mean the property rights of Arabs in the West Bank are permitted to expand into state-owned land; they are not.

Purchases of Arab lands by Jews do happen, and Israeli courts evict Jews who illegally settle on privately-held Arab land.

No, the issue isn't Jewish settlements. The issue is Israel's existence, the fact Israel's enemies seek to kill millions of people. This media-attempted "death of a thousand cuts" is meant to obscure that, confusing the good with the evil.

Interesting. Document this story and proof of your specific claim, please.

They made a foolish choice. The Arabs who chose to remain in Israel have done better than almost any Arab population in the Middle East, outside of the oil-drenched Persian Gulf states. Many Christians remaining in Palestinian Arab-controlled areas have departed over the past few decades.

Nobody is confusing the good and the evil- not here. We can all distinguish the Zionazis for what they really are, the scum of the Earth.

 

[RFS_Br]

That doesn't apply to the territory of the British Mandate,

I've got no idea what you are on about. The principle that one country can't move its population into occupied territory, is international law -- it applies to every country that is a UN member.

If you apply it, you should deal with the issue that of Jews forced out by the Egyptian, Syrian, and Jordanian armies.

The vast majority of Jews who left Arab lands following Israel's creation, did so on their own accord. Even Jewish scholars, like Avi Shlaim and Yehouda Shenhav, emphasize the role of the Jewish Agency and of organized efforts by other Zionist institutions in attracting to Mizrahi Jews into the new country.

That doesn't mean the property rights of Arabs in the West Bank are permitted to expand into state-owned land; they are not.

There's no Israeli state land in the West Bank. The West Bank doesn't belong to Israel. And as I said before, even on private lands the settlements have expanded. About 24% have been built in privately-owned lands.

Purchases of Arab lands by Jews do happen

So do confiscation and forced displacement, specially east of the Green Line, and west of it too, during Israel's early years.

No, the issue isn't Jewish settlements. The issue is Israel's existence, the fact Israel's enemies seek to kill millions of people.

What if I built a brand new country on American lands and by displacing American citizens from their homes? Would that be OK with you? I know it wouldn't for the vast majority of Americans, and for peoples if I tried to do that in their countries. Whenever natives to a land face the prospect of invasion and ethnic cleansing, they react, by means of force and also otherwise. Why shouldn't Palestinians have fought the European invaders that were trying to steal their lands?

In any case, I don't think it's really Israel's existence by itself that is the problem anymore, even if I myself see it as morally questionable. Mainstream Palestinian organizations have already said that they plan to build their state respecting the 67 lines -- it's not their intention to wipe out Israel as it exists within legitimate borders.

Interesting. Document this story and proof of your specific claim, please.

This is from an open letter that Palestinian Christian leaders wrote the Israeli ambassador to the US, Michael Oren, about the situation of Christians in Palestine and in Israel:

"The exaggerated growth of the Christian population in Israel (...) is due primarily to the immigration of Russian Christians whom Israel was unable to distinguish from the Jewish immigrants pouring into the country after the fall of the Soviet Union. It is not due to any accommodation for the indigenous Palestinian Christian population, which is victim to an ongoing displacement policy implemented by your government."

They made a foolish choice. The Arabs who chose to remain in Israel have done better than almost any Arab population in the Middle East

This is not actually true. Israeli Arabs lead quite Third Worldly life-styles. They face discrimination in the job market, their villages are under invested, and state services available for them -- education and health care, for example -- are of low quality. Did you know that, at the OECD school performance test, the PISA, Israeli Arab schools do as worse as Jordanian schools? Since school performance correlates highly with life quality, I would reckon that Arabs in Israel overall don't fare much better than those in neighboring countries.

Many Christians remaining in Palestinian Arab-controlled areas have departed over the past few decades.

This is right, but is due mainly to the region's economy. Palestinian Christians are an elite people -- they're highly educated and, historically, excel at trade and commerce. If they can't sustain their elevated life standards in a place, they'll move out. And that the economy is so weak, is due in large part to the occupation and to the restrictions that it imposes on people's and goods' freedom of movement. This has little to due with religions persecution. Palestinian Christians and Muslims get on well for the most part. According to a study by the Bethlehem-based Diyar Consortium, a Palestinian Lutheran group, only 0.8% of Palestinian Christian emigrats choose to move out because of religious issues. Most do so because of "lack of freedom and security", with some adducing as reasons "family reunification" and "finding a spouse".

And by the way, many Palestinians back in the 1940s didn't have a choice to stay in their homes. About 70% of Palestinians were made to leave their homes because of violence by Jewish terrorist groups like the Haganah, the Irgun and the Lehi, and some others fleeing because of Israeli expulsion orders and psy ops intended to frighten them away from their lands.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Count the minarets in Tel Aviv and the increasing Christian population in Israel (in contrast to other states in the middle east) and you'll have to eat those words.

Christians have the same rights as Muslims in the neighboring countries. Stop making up lies about things you have no idea about!

 

[misty]

I am surprised they have not blamed Muslims for this.

Why is this not on MSM...oh wait...

 

[Solomon2]

It is international law -- it applies to every country that is a UN member.

Not so. You need to check this more carefully. I'm not posting specific links because I think you should research widely and report back.

The vast majority of Jews who left Arab lands following Israel's creation, did so on their own accord.

Debatable AND a "red herring", as we're only talking about the ones forced out.

There's no Israeli state land in the West Bank. The West Bank doesn't belong to Israel.

Almost, but not quite, completely wrong. Under the Mandate state lands are for Jewish settlement. That doesn't necessarily mean they are under Israeli sovereignty but does mean it is legal for Jews to settle there.

So do confiscation and forced displacement, specially east of the Green Line, and west of it too, during Israel's early years.

You've gone backwards, here. Citizens who are part of an armed rebellion lose their civil and property rights, certainly under Ottoman law, which was the standard the League of Nations was talking about in the Mandate. As some 800,000+ Jews were driven out (or departed) it was not unusual for people to be quickly plopped down on the remains of an abandoned Arab village, given a few chickens and a cow, and then have to fend for themselves. The Jews of Israel nearly starved to death in the first few years.

What if I built a brand new country on American lands and by displacing American citizens of their homes?

If you bought them legally that would be fine, yes? The rest is a false analogy. The issue here is that pre-1947 the Jews settled either by purchase or (after the Mandate was established) on state lands, yet even though it's all legal the Arabs still want to slay the Jews.

Why shouldn't Palestinians fight against European invaders that were trying to steal their lands?

As you can see, it's tough to pin theft upon Israel collectively, though Arabs have collectively stolen lands from Jews. Portraying the Jews' return to Israel as a kind of colonial land-grab is a lie both in moral terms (as the market transactions were legal and not the product of compulsion) and factual terms - ignoring Jews' 3000+ year history with the Holy Land.

Mainstream Palestinian organizations have already said that they plan to build their state respecting the 67 lines -- it's not their intention to wipe out Israel as it exists within legitimate borders.

They retracted that concession years ago.

This is from an open letter that Palestinian Christian leaders wrote the Israeli ambassador to the US, Michael Oren, about the situation of Christians in Palestine and in Israel:

This is not actually true. Israeli Arabs lead quite Third Worldly life-styles. They face discrimination in the job market, their villages are under invested, and state services available for them -- education and health care, for example -- are of low quality -

I fail to see the contradiction between your words and mine.

Did you know that, at the OECD school performance test, the PISA, Israeli Arab schools do as worse as Jordanian schools?

I just interrogate the PISA database for Grade 8 and Israeli non-Hebrew speakers (presumably mostly Arabs) do better than Jordanians in at least a few subjects. I didn't investigating further.

This is right, but is due mainly to the region's economy. Palestinian Christians are an elite people -- they're highly educated and, historically, excel at trade and commerce.

That isn't sufficient to explain why Israel's Christian population is growing while the Christian populace in Palestinian-controlled areas continues to decline. I suspect it has a great deal to do with religious persecution, but what expatriate Palestinian Christian, as long as he has family back home that could be terrorized by Hamas or the P.A., is going to admit that?

And by the way, many Palestinians back in the 1940s didn't have a choice to stay in their homes. About 70% of Palestinians were made to leave their homes because of violence by Jewish terrorist groups like the Haganah -

You're way off the deep end if you consider the Haganah a "terrorist group" like the Irgun or Lehi. The best history I know of, Benny Morris', is that a handful of resisting villages in the north were cleared out along with two sizable towns who vowed to resist Israeli rule in the South. Everyone else fled expecting to return once the Jews were wiped out by invading Arab armies.

- psy ops intended to frighten them away from their lands.

Morris does note how, when the leaders of local Arab resistance departed, the Israelis were keen to publicize this in radio broadcasts. That's hardly an ISRAELI "psy op" and it pales in comparison to the "depart so we can kill the Jews" meme that dominated the Arab community.

Christians have the same rights as Muslims in the neighboring countries. Stop making up lies about things you have no idea about!

I understand Christians may be better off in Jordan than in Egypt, or even Iraq. I consider that due to the exceptional wisdom and tolerance of Jordan's ruling family. In today's Middle East, that could disappear in an instant.

Why is this not on MSM...oh wait...

I won't bother to watch the video - they consume too much time - but the brief answer is that by no means are all Jewish-owned mainstream media actually pro-Israel. Some, like the influential New York Times, are an, and of course there are far more Arabs and Muslims in the world than Israeli Jews.

 

[Syrian Lion]

Christians have the same rights as Muslims in the neighboring countries. Stop making up lies about things you have no idea about!

Which is why you want to destroy Syria........ enough said

and about those Zionists, they have ruined Mosques, and no one in the GCC spoke a word or condemned their acts.

 

[Holmes]

Typical Zionist behavior, this is no "news" as it happens all the time. Christians and Muslims are treated like subhumans.

sine US is now controlled by them, the people there obviously dont support Muslims and Christians living there.

 

[Archdemon]

This is disgraceful! i hope the perpetrators be found and severely punished, these radical settlers are the real threat to Israel, not Iran, Iran is much easier to deal with than with these radical right cancerous cells.