Israeli officers face Turkish trial

[Targon]

Look at the post 23

 

[BronzePlaque]

Okay..A closer examination is needed here..According to me, Erdogan’s objective, and that of his party, has never been to overthrow Turkish republican institutions, nor to impose religious law. Their primary desire from the beginning has been to reconcile Turkey’s Muslim nature with the secular institutions of the republic, allowing a space for religion in the political arena. The speech on secularism that Erdoğan made in Cairo justifies that and is decisive, not only for the future of the Middle East, but also to truly understand the weight of innovations the AKP wants to introduce into the Islamic world. But everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. So we will have to agree to disagree

Its no longer a conspiracy theory, yes he is openly threating the secular system, in an appropriate situation&time, there is nothing holds him to not turn state to a Islamic republic, according to what you think a group who openly discriminates non-muslims , supports radical applications and wants to raise childs religious would not want that ?

 

[Targon]

Did they have that power while there was a strong opposition mainly from military ? they're removing the opposition gradually, in the same time their religious statements and applications increases, as a note Erdogan himself even said secularism and islam can't be together before he got the political power. What he told in Cairo is not his own view, since its incompatible with his actions.

 

[BronzePlaque]

Did they have that power while there was a strong opposition mainly from military ? they're removing the opposition gradually, in the same time their religious statements and applications increases, as a note Erdogan himself even said secularism and islam can't be together before he got the political power. What he told in Cairo is not his own view, since its incompatible with his actions.

Mate i asked you several times..What are those actions? at post #23 you say 1- He discriminates non-muslims..How? Please explain 2- Supports radical applications..Which applications? 3- Raise religious children..How is that a threat and whats bad about it?

 

[Targon]

Raising religious generation is simply abusing the immature minds, and certainly NOT the job of secular state.

"Ateist mi yetiştirelim", "dindar olmazlarsa tinerci olurlar", " Ne Yahudiliğimiz kaldı, ne Ermeniliğimiz kaldı ne de afedersiniz Rumluğumuz kaldı" "Biliyorsunuz Kılıçdaroğlu Alevi" State clearly takes side here and discriminates others, I'm not even mentioned statements of other AKP members which is even stupidier.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Raising religious generation is simply abusing the immature minds, and certainly NOT the job of secular state.

"Ateist mi yetiştirelim", "dindar olmazlarsa tinerci olurlar", " Ne Yahudiliğimiz kaldı, ne Ermeniliğimiz kaldı ne de afedersiniz Rumluğumuz kaldı" "Biliyorsunuz Kılıçdaroğlu Alevi" State clearly takes side here and discriminates others, I'm not even mentioned statements of other AKP members which is even stupidier.

I thought you were smarter than taking quotes out of context and present them on their own.

 

[Targon]

Quotes are pretty clear themselves.

 

[Selim I]

Turkey is no longer trying hard for the EU membership, actually majority thinks its not necessary anymore.

Erdoğan is a Islamist, naturally he barks at Israel.

And for the record, Erdogan is not an "Islamist" he is an ordinary Muslim. Why do you use so many terms against people having faith on something?

Care to elaborate when a Muslim is an "Islamist"?

Care to elaborate when a Muslim is an "extremist"?

Care to elaborate when a Muslim is an "Fundamentalist"?

Care to elaborate when a Muslim is a "religious Muslim"?

Care to elaborate when a Muslim is an "Ordinary Muslim"?

I want you to share your thoughts of your use of these definitions.

And what is a person if he:

1. Accepts the 6 Islamic principles of faith
2. Practically fulfils the 5 pillars of Islam

Which group would you put him in?

 

[BronzePlaque]

Raising religious generation is simply abusing the immature minds, and certainly NOT the job of secular state.

"Ateist mi yetiştirelim", "dindar olmazlarsa tinerci olurlar", " Ne Yahudiliğimiz kaldı, ne Ermeniliğimiz kaldı ne de afedersiniz Rumluğumuz kaldı" "Biliyorsunuz Kılıçdaroğlu Alevi" State clearly takes side here and discriminates others, I'm not even mentioned statements of other AKP members which is even stupidier.

So thats your answer to my question? Those are words..Where is the action? You are constantly talking about Erdogan`s actions but yet you cant even give one example of those actions..So tell me in which occasion state discriminated alevis?

 

[TurAr]

Mate i asked you several times..What are those actions? at post #23 you say 1- He discriminates non-muslims..How? Please explain 2- Supports radical applications..Which applications? 3- Raise religious children..How is that a threat and whats bad about it?

I have been following this forum for almost a year. I'm familiar with most of you. And you drew my attention with your reasonabl attitudes. But seeing just a single statement in favor of secularism make you blindly believe him bothers me.

Saying "We want to raise a religious generation" doesn't enough for you? What do you think he meant by saying religious generation? Do you think he meant any religion or just islam?

 

[BronzePlaque]

I have been following this forum for almost a year. I'm familiar with most of you. And you drew my attention with your reasonabl attitudes. But seeing just a single statement in favor of secularism make you blindly believe him bothers me.

Saying "We want to raise a religious generation" doesn't enough for you? What do you think he meant by saying religious generation? Do you think he meant any religion or just islam?

Welcome to PDF

To be honest, i dont understand whats the contradiction between being religious and being secular? Secularism is the principle of separation between government institutions and the persons mandated to represent the State from religious institutions and religious dignitaries..So i dont see how raising religious children is a threat to Secular system..One can be a secular and religious at the same time..

 

[Targon]

State clearly says they will raise a religious generation and discriminating Atheists openly by considering them same as drug dealers and ill-minded people, those are not only words, they're gradually realizing it by promoting religious schools, increasing religious education from elementary schools, minor AKP members supporting it locally with acts such as banning alcohol, handing islamist books in schools, seperating famela and male scouts etc..

Even just statements are enough to consider him a threat againts secularism, what we're discuissing after all ?

Selim I

Ordinary Muslim= technically muslim, sometimes fullfilling the principles
Religious Muslim= Fullfilling the principles
Fundamentalist&Islamist&Extremist= discriminating others, forcing their thoughts on others.

Edit: I'm repeating myself, let the harm of forced religious education aside, its NOT the secular state's job, state should be indifferent on religious matters.

 

[TurAr]

Welcome to PDF

To be honest, i dont understand whats the contradiction between being religious and being secular? Secularism is the principle of separation between government institutions and the persons mandated to represent the State from religious institutions and religious dignitaries..So i dont see how raising religious children is a threat to Secular system..One can be a secular and religious at the same time..

Of course raising religious children is not a threat to Secular system but it's not -shouldn't be- the business of Prime Minister, Especially PM of a secular country.

 

[BronzePlaque]

Edit: I'm repeating myself, let the harm of forced religious education aside, its NOT the secular state's job, state should be indifferent on religious matters.

Its not a forced religious education..Its a matter of choice..No one is forced to attend those classes..And no one is forced to send their children to imam hatips

"The changes approved included measures that will allow schools specialising in religious education combined with a modern curriculum, known as imam hatip schools, to take boys and girls from the age of 11 instead of 15, and to provide optional classes in Koranic studies and the life of the Prophet Mohammad in other schools.

The law stipulates that children should complete 12 years schooling, though critics say the overall quality of education will suffer as parents have the option of putting their children into technical colleges grooming them for low-paid blue-collar and service industry jobs, like hairdressing for girls, from an early age."

 

[Targon]

Aim of that ? choice of who ? kids ?