Perhaps if the Arabs showed their true calibre, they would get the same toys. Why would US give some country advanced military products when they are unable to use even the basic products to their fullest extent. Your post does not refute my claim and it only shows that the Israelis have been successful in lobbying while the Arabs faltered.
And where does this comment of yours leave your previous one ? --
So was I, but you compared the death of millions of Jews and Gypsies to an unequal but still brutal murder of a number of Palestinians.
If you were able to put your analytical abilities if you have any to the test , you would have been able to figure out that i was talking about the "actions" - not "statistics".
Your point was obviously biased and unreasonable.
Of-course whatever doesn't pass your throat without a sour taste would be biased and unreasonable !
Are you aware of the kind of funding that went into research and development during Nazi era Germany while US suffered from a terrible recession.
Poor Americans --- ooops ---?? -- you might wana give a read to post WWII hardware R&D - most of it was a direct copy paste and subsequent development of captured nazi weaponry.
But even then the Americans were able to match the Germans in developing state of the art products and they were the first to develop a functional Atom Bomb which Nazi Germany could not develop.
Germans did have Nukes , but they were untested -- try reading the history of Horton stealth bomber and why it was being built in the first place.
Answer my question rather than trying to divert from the topic, my your logic we also were party to a genocide when one of our own military men killed thousands of Palestinians.
You never justified Zia being a "pinnacle" of our foreign policy -now you are relying on the actions of a dictator to support your rather shaky claims , in some other thread , you would be bashing Zia - ain't it a bit hypocritical ?
I asked you to justify how in your mind actions of a dictator like zia can reflect our Pakistani principles and the will of the pakistani people ? --i will just repeat my question.
Stay relevant?
Why are you bringing in the Germans, their technological prowess and what not when you want to be relevant.
I just gave a reference - you asked questions , made false claims and i had to answer - simple as that !
On 25th December 1947, Jinnah appointed Zafarullah Khan as the Foreign Minister of Pakistan. At the UN, Sir Zafrullah emerged as the most eloquent advocate of all third world and Islamic issues.
Zafarullah Khan was a great orator for the Palestine and the Arab cause and was an extremely respected figure in the Muslim world, he raised the Palestine issue in the United Nations on multiple occasions. In October 1947 he delivered a speech on the Palestine issue in the UN General Assembly, which is one of the most strong case ever presented for Palestine to date.
http://aleemkhan.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/sir-zafarullah-khan-speech.pdf
The Palestinian Question at The U.N.: Monday, 24 November 1947, at 2.30 p.m. - Senegambia News
In 1947 Pakistan's representative to the United Nations,
Sir Zafrullah Khan, waged a struggle against the UN Partition Plan for Palestine (1947). Khan strove for the establishment of a federal state in Palestine.
Nevertheless, when the battles had died down in 1949 and the ceasefire agreement had been signed, some in the Israeli Foreign Ministry believed it might be possible to open legations in Karachi, then the capital of Pakistan, or at least to conduct trade openly.[5] Initial contact between the ambassador (high commissioner) of Pakistan in London and representatives of Israel and Jewish organizations was made in early 1950. The Pakistani government was asked to issue passage permits to India for a few hundred Jews who had been forced to leave Afghanistan and wanted to emigrate to Israel. The Pakistani government refused to allow them to transit through Pakistan and the Jews left through Iran.[6]
In Cairo in March 1952, Zafrullah Khan, who had meanwhile been appointed Pakistan's foreign minister, said he thought Israel and Arab countries ought to reach an agreement, though he emphasized that his country supported the Arabs' demands. For example, the Arabs wanted Israel to alter borders, provide monetary compensation, and make assurances that it had no aggressive intentions.[7]
Consequently, a meeting was arranged in New York between Zafrullah Khan and Abba Eban, then Israel's ambassador to the United States, on 14 January 1953. Regarding Israeli-Pakistani relations, Zafrullah Khan told Eban that his government would not be able to withstand the extremists' opposition and that there was no chance for improved relations between the two countries in the near future "despite the fact that the Pakistani government does not bear any hatred toward Israel and understands that it is a factor in the Middle East that must be taken into consideration." For the time being, he expressed his approval of mutual visits of experts, students, and professors. He added that when the Arabs exhibited willingness to meet with Israel to solve problems, Pakistan would try to influence the Arabs toward reaching an agreement.[8]
In March and April 1954, Zafrullah Khan stated on several occasions that his country did not recognize Israel and had no intention of doing so. Israel was a foreign wedge in the Middle East and posed a danger not only to surrounding Arab countries but to the entire Islamic world. Pakistan would aid the Arabs in protecting sites holy to Islam. The Pakistani prime minister, of Pakistan, told a visiting group of Palestinian Arab clergy that the issue of Palestine was not only an Arab one but also a Muslim one. He promised them his country's loyalty on issues pertaining to "Muslims in Palestine." He kept this promise at a conference of Asian heads of state, held in Colombo in 1954 in advance of the Bandung Conference, and during the Bandung Conference itself. For this he was praised by King Saud of Saudi Arabia.[9]
Jewish Political Studies Review - Pakistan and Israel
This was a Brilliant effort but it doesn't prove your claim of Pakistan taking a leading role and so to speak "spearheading" the mideast peace process.
Look 'dude', the way we PAF helped the Arabs should mean that the Arabs should make their entire line of fighters available to us.
We sent just over a dozen pilots - they did shoot Israelis down but didn't win the war for them. Any way i had to make a point and it seems that you have understood quite well.
Do you even know history or is it all just new to you.
One such example is how BCCI set up the financial institutions for the Arab nations but you might not even know Agha Hassan Abedi.
Does it prove your claim of setting up "institutions" for Arabs - if we were that good why we didn't do anything for ourselves - what we were too busy helping others when we couldn't keep our own house in order -- ? - its funny.
Read all of that a numerous times , it doesn't answer my specific question about a "state funding" of terror groups in Pakistan - Radical arab Individuals do support terror inside Pakistan but that doesn't mean that the blame can be put on the country itself.
So our soldiers did not train the Arab security forces, did we not develop their training methods, do we not make up the bulk of their security forces in certain countries like Bahrain and Qatar.
You are just beating the bush over and over again - as i said , we haven't done anything of a magnitude you were coming up with - Pilot - Spec ops - Infantry training in some cases , this is all that Pakistan has done nothing more than that.
Facts, seem like a far fetched idea.
Anyhow, you seem oblivious to facts.
I appreciate your deep insight.
Good for you, perhaps you should contact those who actually are privy to the workings of PA with the Arabs.
Try the Fauji Foundation.
We were talking about operation Blue tulsi (Conspiracy theory for you maybe) - as i said , i was educated on this subject by the people who were on red alert and had direct orders to "ram your a/c in the enemy jets if you run out of Munition". I was told one day - you will see PAF declassified docs on this and everyone would believe that it actually was planned to happen.
The possibility of Palestine depends on the Arabs and they have truly messed it up so we gotta look out for our interest. Its not like the Arabs do not recognize India because of Kashmir.
As i said , our support to Palestine isn't linked to just Arabs ! -- i wont trade a 5 year old Palestenian kid with a chopped of leg with Python IV - Iron dome - Markeva4 - Arrow -maybe you can !
Not accepting israel until an independent Palesteanian state is the right choice - the view is shared by the majority in Pakistan.
My abilities are known to me, I too have doubts about your ability to comprehend things properly.
Thanks for pointing that out -- youre very kind.
You sound like a self deprecating Pakistani, according to you, we cannot do anything.
Do you believe otherwise -- look in the mirror , where do we stand -- you will agree with me , we ain't as smart as we think we are.
But I know that we have the ability to achieve a whole lot more but we are boggled down by brothers and their followers within.
Again you are putting the blame oveseas --its our problem , we have to solve it --- btw you might wanna stop using and abusing the word brother .
A Turkish member refutes your claims and you continue to speak on their behalf.
I am doubting your ability again.
Jigs doesn't represent full Turkish society - btw i wasn't bringing Turkey in the discussion , i was just making a point on what happened , we all know that quite well.
Its all home made, the foreign ideology, the funding, the leaders who came to Pakistan are all home made.
Even if it was imported - we don't have any option other than regarding it as a domestic threat. Its like borrowing a hen from your mate which lays eggs in your home -- the young chicken will belong to you even when the original source was foreign -- even the rooster would be yours.
So we should stay put and continue to fumble along with a fractured policy, the Arabs lost Palestine themselves.
We cannot put out country in jeopardy for some Arabs who are causing us harm.
We are causing us harm ourselves more than arabs are causing us --- please stop your little blame game --
Palestine will be created if the power players are involved and we can achieve that, but we need to alter our thinking and our subservient attitude.
you just made me laugh - a Pakistani talks of freedom and getting rid of subservient attitude-- very Ironic Indeed - btw what was our international debt again ??
I don't know why you are so illusionary about how capable we are -- face facts , we ain't that good !
