Israel, threat to world peace: German Nobel laureate Grass

[muslim282]

You right, Israel should be ashamed, Germany is only responsible for butchering 6 million Jews in the worst genocide in history. What's the big fas?

No not really, the chinese were killed in much higher numbers by the japs. But sadly the world is hardly ever taught of such things. Regarding the number of jews killed by the nazis, well thats debatable and believed and debated by many (and not muslims) academics and researchers to be false and pure fictional as a cover for the formation of the state of israel.

 

[haviZsultan]

It took this nobel laurette quite a bit of time to realize this. lol

 

[500]

No not really, the chinese were killed in much higher numbers by the japs. But sadly the world is hardly ever taught of such things. Regarding the number of jews killed by the nazis, well thats debatable and believed and debated by many (and not muslims) academics and researchers to be false and pure fictional as a cover for the formation of the state of israel.

No serious researcher argues the numbers.
Formation of state of Israel has nothing to do with number of killed. State of Israel de facto existed already before the war.

 

[nirreich]

I dont wanna say anything about bloodi stupid indianz(you better know where you stands on the *****) but i think what i have said about israel is not far from facts ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, simply and truely israel has no single legal justification of existance......

This is your bloodi face

Please elaborate why Pakistan's right to exist is bigger than Israel's.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

Please elaborate why Pakistan's right to exist is bigger than Israel's.

Most Jews in Israel are white Europeans; many easily confused with Polish or German people rather than Arabs. Why not have an Israel in Russia or the US? They'd be lenient enough, I'm sure. Heck, there's even a Jewish Oblast in Russia!
Besides, most of you are natives of Europe/Russia region

 

[nirreich]

Most Jews in Israel are white Europeans; many easily confused with Polish or German people rather than Arabs. Why not have an Israel in Russia or the US? They'd be lenient enough, I'm sure. Heck, there's even a Jewish Oblast in Russia!
Besides, most of you are natives of Europe/Russia region

Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people. Suggesting for Israelis (which half of them are from Middle Eastern/Muslim countries, not Europe...) to leave is like telling your Muhajirs to go back to India.

 

[MastanKhan]

You right, Israel should be ashamed, Germany is only responsible for butchering 6 million Jews in the worst genocide in history. What's the big fas?

Hi,

The russian communist jews killed more---now didn't they after the revolution----weren't most of the leaders jews.

 

[MastanKhan]

Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people. Suggesting for Israelis (which half of them are from Middle Eastern/Muslim countries, not Europe...) to leave is like telling your Muhajirs to go back to India.

Sir,

You left the place for greener pastures thousands of years ago----you have no right to this this place. For your benefits---when in europe---you at first deceived the christian and invited the muslims into spain---you had a good 700 years---then you saw the tides changing and then you called the christians against the muslims---you were a party to the marriage of Isabella to Ferdinand---and you funded his campaign aganist the muslims---but tragic for you---after the execution of muslism---the catholic church turned on you---.

You went to other areas in europe---as you grew stronger---the similiar stuff happened again---you controlled the wealth and people hated you for that---you brought in the revolution in russia and executed millions of russians and jews---. Possibly ther commy jews killed as many jews as the germans.

Israel should be the homeland for brown and black jews---but the white jews need to stay in their countries of birth---those countries gave them, identities and most of them were good to the jews---. White jews should have no claim over israel except to visit the holy land---and as there is no persecution of the jews in europe or anywhere else---thyere should be a stoppage of white jews to immigrate to the holy land----.

How about the jews in india----india gave them a home and identity---every nation gave the jews a home and identity---as they prospered in some ares---so were they victims in others---.

Please enlighten us why did the germans did what they did to the jews---also share with us about spain and tell us how the jews killed other jews in russia as well.


The jews never talk about millions of muslims killed in spain by the christian armies of Ferdinand and Isabella funded by wealthy jews----there is no mention or hardly any mention of muslims in the inquisition victim---but a few jews got burnt on the stake and the jews have not stopped talking about that for 600 years now and conveniently taken the names of the muslims out of it.

As a child---I was an avid reader---my father started collecting books for me when I was born---as an 8 year old I had read books about the holocasut and it pained me a great deal---the suffering of the jews was terrible in germany----no people should suffer that----the suffering of the palestinians is terrible as well----no human being should suffer that as well---.

The problem in israel and palestine is because of the radical white jews---white jews are extremely rascist----. Now you ask how rascist they are----they make fun of the real arab and real african jews---that is how rascist they are----.

If it wasn't for the radical white jews---the brown and black jews had no qualms with their palestinian counterparts----.

Just like the crusades---it was the european christians that made lives miserable for the arab christians----.

 

[IN9721]

We (Indians) very well know where we stand in the world stage and our improvement areas as well. We are people with positive frame of mind and support Israel from heart.

Do some soul searching before blaming others, whole world knows who is the supporter of terrorism and there are n number of evidence corrobarating this fact.

Grow up kid!!! Stop acting in a childish way and work towards doing something for the betterment of ur countrymen and society. Unnecessary BS will not help you anyway.

 

[The SC]

Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people. Suggesting for Israelis (which half of them are from Middle Eastern/Muslim countries, not Europe...) to leave is like telling your Muhajirs to go back to India.

Just a little part of Palestine is a historic homeland of the Jewish tribes that were spread over many other places throughout history; Babylon, Egypt, and Persia were but just a few examples, Zionism wants to claim everything as their historic homeland, meaning wherever the Jews have settled before modern times!
You have betrayed your only true friends through history, who welcomed and protected you for so many centuries, namely the Arabs or the Muslim Arabs to be more precise from damascus to Andalusia.
So you have proven once again that Koran says the truth about banu Israel, and the fact that they are not trustworthy even to God, let alone its prophets that you killed many times for bringing the truth to the surface, and to any nation, (regardless of religion or ideology) where you have lived or still live in today (AIPAC in the US per example).
Betrayal and violence on top of it can not be forgotten or tolerated, So go ahead and keep
depicting the Muslims as 'Terrorists"for defending themselves.
The Brits were terrorists too, so were the Germans, tomorrow, with no doubt its the Americans.
It is the Jewish kind of war, they mostly side with the devil, and depict their late friends (Now the other side) as the devil, that is why they like to control the media. it is not called the mass media for nothing, they know that by influencing the minds of the masses they can achieve their aims and win new friends(where military power resides!), the only thing they forgot in their schooling is about choosing between honesty and falsehood in their lives.
Honesty pays positively a good price one day or another and falsehood (deceit) is doomed to fail and the perpetrators are exposed and punished in time.
No one can do anything about these facts, its the mysterious natural power of the subconscious mind of individuals or nations, who is the subject of these laws.

 

[SherAli]

Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people. Suggesting for Israelis (which half of them are from Middle Eastern/Muslim countries, not Europe...) to leave is like telling your Muhajirs to go back to India.

It is the homeland of the Palestinian people

Your homeland is Khazaria or Russia

 

[nirreich]

Hi,

The russian communist jews killed more---now didn't they after the revolution----weren't most of the leaders jews.

For the sake of the argument let us say that you are right, so what? If there were Jews in the USSR responsible for mass killings than the Jewish people is responsible? Do all Pakistanis responsible for terror attacks conducted by Pakistanis across the world?

 

[nirreich]

Sir,

You left the place for greener pastures thousands of years ago----you have no right to this this place. For your benefits---when in europe---you at first deceived the christian and invited the muslims into spain---you had a good 700 years---then you saw the tides changing and then you called the christians against the muslims---you were a party to the marriage of Isabella to Ferdinand---and you funded his campaign aganist the muslims---but tragic for you---after the execution of muslism---the catholic church turned on you---.

You went to other areas in europe---as you grew stronger---the similiar stuff happened again---you controlled the wealth and people hated you for that---you brought in the revolution in russia and executed millions of russians and jews---. Possibly ther commy jews killed as many jews as the germans.

Israel should be the homeland for brown and black jews---but the white jews need to stay in their countries of birth---those countries gave them, identities and most of them were good to the jews---. White jews should have no claim over israel except to visit the holy land---and as there is no persecution of the jews in europe or anywhere else---thyere should be a stoppage of white jews to immigrate to the holy land----.

How about the jews in india----india gave them a home and identity---every nation gave the jews a home and identity---as they prospered in some ares---so were they victims in others---.

Please enlighten us why did the germans did what they did to the jews---also share with us about spain and tell us how the jews killed other jews in russia as well.


The jews never talk about millions of muslims killed in spain by the christian armies of Ferdinand and Isabella funded by wealthy jews----there is no mention or hardly any mention of muslims in the inquisition victim---but a few jews got burnt on the stake and the jews have not stopped talking about that for 600 years now and conveniently taken the names of the muslims out of it.

As a child---I was an avid reader---my father started collecting books for me when I was born---as an 8 year old I had read books about the holocasut and it pained me a great deal---the suffering of the jews was terrible in germany----no people should suffer that----the suffering of the palestinians is terrible as well----no human being should suffer that as well---.

The problem in israel and palestine is because of the radical white jews---white jews are extremely rascist----. Now you ask how rascist they are----they make fun of the real arab and real african jews---that is how rascist they are----.

If it wasn't for the radical white jews---the brown and black jews had no qualms with their palestinian counterparts----.

Just like the crusades---it was the european christians that made lives miserable for the arab christians----.

Sir,

The entire above text is flawed factually and historically in so many ways.

The connection between the Jewish people and the holy land remained strong all the centuries after our country was destroyed and most of the people exiled. Jews prayed every day to go back to Jerusalem and memorised the country they lost. Through history there were always Jewish communities living in the holy land and Jerusalem had a Jewish majority at least since the 19th century.

During this entire period of exile Jews were prosecuted all around Europe, and were forced to flee again and again. They were butchered in Spain by the Inquisition, in Germany, France and the UK by the crusaders and mobs, in Poland and in East Europe by the Cossacks and later in numerous pogroms many of them organised by the authorities in Russia and all around Europe. Riots and murders of Jews also occurred in Muslim countries but in less intensity. At least Hundreds of thousands died and tortured.

Moreover, even in "normal" times, between one killing spree to another, the Jews had no rights and lived in Ghettos, in Europe and in Muslim countries until the 19th century. Pogroms against the Jews continued in Russia until the beginning of the 20th century and in Poland erupted even after the Holocaust.

According to your twisted and immoral rationale the victim is responsible for the horrors other inflicted on him. Of course there are villains and degraded individuals among the Jewish people like in any other social group, but to argue that their deeds is a justification for mass murdering of communities, including women and children, points to your lack of morality.

Your comparison between the Holocaust and the situation of the Palestinians is preposterous in all standards. If you indeed read about the Holocaust you should be aware to its uniqueness in the history as an industrial mass killing of millions. Entire communities vanished and third of the Jewish people was murdered in death camps with gas, in mass executions of hundred of thousands, in concentration camps and in starvation and diseases in Ghettoes. Please indicate what evidence can you present that Israel has any such policy towards the Palestinians or ever used any such means against them while they enjoy better living conditions than the people in your origin country - Pakistan!

Last note - there is no distinction between "white Jews" and "black Jews". They are all equal citizens of Israel like the Palestinians who are Israeli citizens. You argument about racism has no hold in reality and the proof for that is the enormous number of mixed marriages between Jews originated form Europe and Jews who were forced to leave Muslim countries (like Pakistan). 20%-30% of the current Jewish population in Israel is of mixed families!

 

[nirreich]

Just a little part of Palestine is a historic homeland of the Jewish tribes that were spread over many other places throughout history; Babylon, Egypt, and Persia were but just a few examples, Zionism wants to claim everything as their historic homeland, meaning wherever the Jews have settled before modern times!
You have betrayed your only true friends through history, who welcomed and protected you for so many centuries, namely the Arabs or the Muslim Arabs to be more precise from damascus to Andalusia.
So you have proven once again that Koran says the truth about banu Israel, and the fact that they are not trustworthy even to God, let alone its prophets that you killed many times for bringing the truth to the surface, and to any nation, (regardless of religion or ideology) where you have lived or still live in today (AIPAC in the US per example).
Betrayal and violence on top of it can not be forgotten or tolerated, So go ahead and keep
depicting the Muslims as 'Terrorists"for defending themselves.
The Brits were terrorists too, so were the Germans, tomorrow, with no doubt its the Americans.
It is the Jewish kind of war, they mostly side with the devil, and depict their late friends (Now the other side) as the devil, that is why they like to control the media. it is not called the mass media for nothing, they know that by influencing the minds of the masses they can achieve their aims and win new friends(where military power resides!), the only thing they forgot in their schooling is about choosing between honesty and falsehood in their lives.
Honesty pays positively a good price one day or another and falsehood (deceit) is doomed to fail and the perpetrators are exposed and punished in time.
No one can do anything about these facts, its the mysterious natural power of the subconscious mind of individuals or nations, who is the subject of these laws.

Your arguments is a classic anti-Smite material. Your logic about some kind of underground Jewish organisation which control world powers, media and other means was the same rationale of Nazi Germany for conducting industrial annihilation of the Jewish people.

You are complete philistine regarding Zionism and its objectives. If your argument about Zionism extension is true, then why Israel withdraw again and again from vast territories it occupied and the Arabs were powerless to retake? It happened in 1948, 1956, 1973, 1979, 1993, 2000, and 2005.

As for the myth of Muslim protection on the Jews, save your patronage attitude to yourself, Jews are not inferior beings. Jews were second-class citizens in Muslim countries, lived in Ghettoes and were murdered and bullied (but less frequently than in Europe). Like Muslim nations, the Jewish people is entitled to have its independence and determine its own destiny.

As you can witness yourself, facts got nothing with you anti-Semite arguments.

 

[Solomon2]

What must be said remains unspeakable
Nick Dyrenfurth
April 19, 2012

DURING November 1968, in the aftermath of the previous year's Arab-Israeli Six Day War, a ''Joint Declaration by 20 representatives of the German left'' appeared in the American left Zionist magazine Jewish Frontier. It argued that the left ''would lose its credibility for all time to come if, through one-sided sympathy for the Arabs, it were to contribute to a new Auschwitz''.

The declaration condemned the inconsistent ''crying out against the war of destruction being perpetrated by the Americans against the population of Vietnam and passing over in silence the far worse Holocaust being planned by the Arabs against Israel''. Signatories included the leading Marxist scholar Ernst Bloch and novelist Gunter Grass.

As many Western leftists abandoned Israel following its post-1967 occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, Sinai and the Golan Heights, instead embracing the then novel Palestinian cause, Grass remained pro-Israel. Some four decades later, few would describe Nobel-prize-winning author Grass, 83, in the same terms.

Grass' controversial recent poem What Must Be Said, published in the German daily Süd deutsche Zeitung, severed any friendship that existed between himself and the Jewish state. Grass alleged that a nuclear-armed Israel ''threatens the already fragile world peace'' and railed against the inability of Germans to take Israel to task for fear of being labelled anti-Semitic. Nine stanzas of poetry sparked a global outcry.

It is self-evident that a former Waffen SS (Nazi military unit) member should exercise extreme caution when commenting upon the actions of the nation-state he unwittingly brought into existence. Still, the decision of Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai to declare Grass persona non grata scarcely requires condemnation. Censoring writers is the antithesis of liberal democracy, however repugnant their views may be.

Much of the debate over Grass' poem has centred on the equation of democratic Israel with the Iranian theocracy and his trivialisation of the existential threat posed by regime in Tehran (whose leader has threatened to ''wipe'' Israel from the map). Yet, perhaps the most repugnant element of Grass' poem was his Freudian suggestion that Israel was contemplating an attack in order to ''annihilate the Iranian people''.

At best, Grass is guilty of attention-seeking opportunism. At worst, his attack constitutes classical anti-Semitism in two respects.

First, it rehashes allegations of mendacious Jewish behaviour and conspiratorial, censorious control of governments and the media.

Second, Grass's casting of Israel as the likely next perpetrator of genocide implies that Jews are collectively possessed of evil intentions.

The Grass scandal is hardly some isolated phenomenon. Rather it points to a far deeper intellectual and moral malaise on the political left, although as British journalist Nick Cohen pointed out in a penetrating recent essay for Standpoint magazine, what has been described as the new anti-Semitism from the far left and militant Islamic groups was in fact ''extraordinarily consistent'' during the previous century.

Anti-Semitism masquerading as anti-Zionism has stolen a march in the early 21st century, albeit shorn of overt racism. Instead, the world's oldest hate manifests itself politically via the bizarre demand that Israel, alone among the world's nations, must cease to exist in favour of a bi-national Palestine. For academic Philip Mendes, such fundamentalist discourse demonises ''all Israeli Jews and all Jewish supporters of Israel as the political enemy''.

Most depressing of all for this committed two-state supporter is the thundering silence of the Western left. As Ari Shavit, a columnist for the left-wing Israeli daily Haaretz, writes: Grass's poem ''doesn't contain Goebbels-like propaganda'' yet the ''words said by Grass and the words not said against Grass prove that the gangrene of delegitimisation is gradually spreading and devouring us''.

Australia, too, has not been immune to such developments. Witness the ugly Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions rallies staged outside the Israeli-owned chocolate shop Max Brenner throughout last year, where protesters literally chanted blood-libels (''There's blood in your hot chocolate''). Yet the response of leading left intellectuals, who ought to know better, was to uncritically defend the protesters.

Those protests were the handiwork of Students for Palestine, a front group of the far-left Socialist Alternative group, itself routinely accused of anti-Semitism. It was no coincidence that the same folks recently planned to protest outside the Adass Israel Synagogue on Sabbath. Amazingly, the demonstration was cancelled not out of any concern about anti-Semitism but because ''anti-Zionist Jews'' were allegedly among the congregants.

This is a new twist on an old far-left strategy whereby the views of a tiny minority of radical anti-Zionist Jews are ostentatiously paraded. Not only is Israel routinely libelled, but anti-Semitism is written off as a disingenuous tactic of Zionist polemicists. Thus, Michael Brull, writing on ABC online's The Drum, described self-confessed jihadist Mohammed Merah, who last month murdered four French Jews, as not anti-Semitic but a ''secular'' killer.

Israel is hardly a perfect nation but the interventions of Grass et al are passing strange. Over the past 15 months, an estimated 13,000 Syrians have perished as a result of President Bashar Al-Assad's brutal crackdown. This is roughly the same number of casualties produced by the Israeli/Palestinian conflict since the onset of the 1948 war. Yet Grass's poetic stylings avoid altogether the continuing Syrian bloodbath. What must be said indeed.

Nick Dyrenfurth is the author of several books on Australian politics and history.



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