Israel Must Think seriously About Pakistan's Nuclear weapons: Israeli President.

[asq]

Almost every single one of your paragraphs is a blatant lie or a half-truth. Fed to you by the Western media or the Arab media.

My point in writing here is not to get into some slapping contest about previous conflicts.
The thread is about Pakistans Nuclear weapons, and that people say we care about them. We don't . I'm pretty sure if something was mentioned it was about selling the designs to Iran. The reason that is a problem is that the current rulers in Iran want to wipe us off the map.

why would you call it slapping contest, are we deprived of mannerism,

And yes this thread is about Pakistan nuclear assets, and if u read threads all over this forum, u will learn that Pakistani Nuclear assets are being looked at very seriously giving Pakistanis very frustrated picture of their country being singled out for concocted reasoning.

Let us see what kind of light u shed, I doubt you will contribute posatively ascerting by your ill mannered answer to my post.

But one never knows, may be there is goodness left in this world. One would hope so.

 

[Cynic Waheed]

Israel can't handle Iran right now and they thinking of Pakistan already.. Pak is not a walk in the park.. If they come for us.. We'll treat them properly!

 

[HAWK73]

long live ISRAEL

Why not. . . . .

Because both India & Israel`s mission is same against Muslims!

 

[HAWK73]

India force Israel against Pakistan Nu-Clear.

Because Indians made a more than enough propaganda against Pakistan`s Nu-Clear after Pakistan got problems like Bomb Blasts & Suicide Attacks. Then Indian did their job and shout over Pak Nu-Clear.

Now India force Israel to support them!

After all both India & Israel mission is same against Muslims!

 

[FireFighter]

I find the Pakistani obsession with Israel both amusing and disturbing, especially compared with Bangladesh, whose citizens seem to feel little about Israel at all.

We've had a number of threads here about Pakistan and Israel - it's one of the things that prompted my appearance here - and it seems when one thread dies down - whether because phony allegations against Israel are disproved, or because Israeli behavior is explained sufficiently to Pakistanis, or something else - another one pops up to take its place, often reciting exactly the same stuff that had been disproved before.

Pakistani's are far smarter and strategic thinkers than the dis-oriented and demoralized Arabs. A famous Canadian journalist who spent 2 decades covering Indo-Pak & Middle East once said "Arab-Israeli politics is like a child's playground compared to Indo-Pakistan politics.."


We understand the Zionist/Israeli psyche extremely well. Having fought and dealt with the complicated Indian's for a few decades adds to our experience.


The way Israel carried out surgical strikes against Iraq's Nuclear facilities in the 1980s so secretly and covertly with "shock and awe" policy sent a very important message to Pakistan that her nukes are no longer safe. It is no secret that zionists/israeli's have no love or admiration for muslims in general.


And whether you admit or not, Pakistan has no obsession with Israel, rather we're obsessed with Jerusalem which houses the 3rd most holiest site in Islam, and also Muslim brethren in Palestine being oppressed and occupied by Zionists doesn't help and advance your Israeli cause to the Pakistani's at all.

Since every time it all peters out to nothing, can Pakistanis grasp the possibility that maybe 99% of everything negative they ever heard about Israel was wrong?

It's always amusing to see your futile attempts to defend Israeli Zionists policies and actions with your made up stats...I'm sure one must be laughing while making up such BS figures

 

[Desert Fox]

Few of you can deny this video and the Above news and go back to Sleep !

Others should "Switch" Their thinking . "Zionists would never become your Friends , they never have , they never will ".



I think now we can Relate this video with that news & this Mullah is not stupid anymore as many thought when this video was posted earlier .

YouTube - Pakistan Hurdle to Israel

whatever this guy said is actually happening, this guy has a good analysis of the current situation!

Hopefully our nukes don't get neutralized!

 

[Halaku Khan]

The relationship between India and Israel is simple - the Israelis have good technology of their own. To some extent, Israel is also a conduit for western technology that until recently was not available to India directly from the west.

In return, Israel benefits from Indian defense contracts, and also from some services like satellite launches.

But India wants to retain friendly relations with Palestinians, other Arabs, and with Iran. Similarly, Israel does not want to unnecessarily antagonize Pakistan.

So India and Israel cooperate with each other without unnecessarily increasing number of enemies.

 

[Solomon2]

Pakistani's are far smarter and strategic thinkers than the dis-oriented and demoralized Arabs. A famous Canadian journalist who spent 2 decades covering Indo-Pak & Middle East once said "Arab-Israeli politics is like a child's playground compared to Indo-Pakistan politics.."

Your point?

We understand the Zionist/Israeli psyche extremely well. Having fought and dealt with the complicated Indian's for a few decades adds to our experience.

I don't see the connection, nor do I see how you think you understand "the Zionist/Israeli psyche".

The way Israel carried out surgical strikes against Iraq's Nuclear facilities in the 1980s so secretly and covertly with "shock and awe" policy sent a very important message to Pakistan that her nukes are no longer safe. It is no secret that zionists/israeli's have no love or admiration for muslims in general.

I think that whatever threat Pakistan's nukes face from Israel pales in comparison to the threat from Pakistan's own militants, who doubtless wish to control them for themselves. Why else would they keep attacking Rawalpindi, save as a process to threaten and subvert elements of the Pakistani military to their control? Do you think that would happen if Pakistan didn't have nukes?

And whether you admit or not, Pakistan has no obsession with Israel -

I don't think ordinary Pakistanis have an obsession with Israel. However, some very important Pakistanis do:

I stayed at the madrasa only a few weeks, leaving only of occasional appointments in Islamabad, such as the birthday party for Pakistan's nuclear bomb...one of the men, in a bespoke suit, noted the absence of foreign dignitaries at the ceremony, to which another man said, "The world can't accustom itself to our strength."

"Why do you think that is?" I asked.

The second man aswered: "Because the world is frightened of Muslim power. They don't call the American bomb a Christian bomb. They don't call the Indian bomb a Hindu bomb. The Jews have a bomb and the Muslims didn't. What's fair about this? Israel is an aggressor state and needs to be confronted."

There was something odd about this statement. The Pakistani bomb was meant to counter the Indian bomb, or so the experts said. But this fellow, a physicist whose name I later learned was A.Q. Khan, had the Jews on his mind. "Why is there such a double standard?" he asked. "All the West is an enemy of Islam. The WEst has been leading a crusade against the Muslims for a thousand years. Israel is the leader of the crusade. The Wet will have Israel use its bomb on the Muslims. The crusades have not ended. The war against our religion has not stopped.

The Pakistanis nodded in agreement...

- Prisoners: A Muslim & Jew Across the Middle East Divide, Jeffrey Goldberg, Knopf Publishing, 2006, p. 247-248.

...rather we're obsessed with Jerusalem which houses the 3rd most holiest site in Islam -

Are you sure? When I read the story of the creation of the Al-Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock it sounded very much to me that these were created as tourist traps to divert money from Mecca and Medina. Nevertheless, these areas remain controlled by the Muslim waqf and are not subject to Israeli administration.

...and also Muslim brethren in Palestine being oppressed and occupied by Zionists doesn't help and advance your Israeli cause to the Pakistani's at all.

Are you so sure you aren't being misinformed? Where, other than from me on this forum, have you been exposed to the Jewish view of events in the Holy Land, rather than Israel's enemies? If you think Pakistan has made errors in the past few years that have only started to get straight today, what makes you think that Pakistan hasn't gotten its view of Israel and Arabs messed up as well?

It's always amusing to see your futile attempts to defend Israeli Zionists policies and actions with your made up stats...I'm sure one must be laughing while making up such BS figures

I'm glad to read that my posts have some value in your eyes. As for "made up stats" - read carefully, I made up nothing.

 

[Kompromat]

Your point?

I don't see the connection, nor do I see how you think you understand "the Zionist/Israeli psyche".

I think that whatever threat Pakistan's nukes face from Israel pales in comparison to the threat from Pakistan's own militants, who doubtless wish to control them for themselves. Why else would they keep attacking Rawalpindi, save as a process to threaten and subvert elements of the Pakistani military to their control? Do you think that would happen if Pakistan didn't have nukes?

I don't think ordinary Pakistanis have an obsession with Israel. However, some very important Pakistanis do:

- Prisoners: A Muslim & Jew Across the Middle East Divide, Jeffrey Goldberg, Knopf Publishing, 2006, p. 247-248.

Are you sure? When I read the story of the creation of the Al-Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock it sounded very much to me that these were created as tourist traps to divert money from Mecca and Medina. Nevertheless, these areas remain controlled by the Muslim waqf and are not subject to Israeli administration.

Are you so sure you aren't being misinformed? Where, other than from me on this forum, have you been exposed to the Jewish view of events in the Holy Land, rather than Israel's enemies? If you think Pakistan has made errors in the past few years that have only started to get straight today, what makes you think that Pakistan hasn't gotten its view of Israel and Arabs messed up as well?

I'm glad to read that my posts have some value in your eyes. As for "made up stats" - read carefully, I made up nothing.

Some of the Lies Detected !!

Thanks

 

[Developereo]

Isreal lost a total of 19 planes and many of them due to technical reasons.Now i don't know how many were shot by PAF.But i do know that a very large number of Arab planes were shot down by the IAF.

Isreal did not provide any help to India in the Kargil conflict.Indo-Isreal military ties grew only recently.Recently Isreal installed a grid along the LoC which can determine body heat and hence determine the movement of terrorists.Ofcourse the Indians paid for the system ,but this is the first case of Isreali assistance.

There is so much misinformation in your post, I don't even know where to begin. Please google around to educate yourself about both PAF shooting down IAF planes, and Israeli help to bail out floundering India in Kargil.

I find the Pakistani obsession with Israel both amusing and disturbing,

I, too, don't understand why Israel threads keep popping up in PDF. We are not going to recognize Israel; 99% of Pakistanis are against it; case closed.

I made up nothing.

Your repeated assertion that Pakistanis are misinformed about Israel is false. In fact, it is you and your Zionist apologists who are misinformed about Israel's history. I have already debunked most of your assertions about Israel's legitimacy using the BBC documentary which clearly shows how Israel was created through deceit, bribery and outright treachery.

I bet most Israelis are not aware of their own country's true history.

 

[Solomon2]

There is so much misinformation in your post, I don't even know where to begin. Please google around to educate yourself about both PAF shooting down IAF planes -

That just means a few PAF pilots, in pursuit of glory, decided to side with those seeking to make another genocide of the Jews. It does not that Israel decided to make an enemy of Pakistan. Note that not all the Pakistani pilots who could made the decision to battle the Israelis; a number of them, probably disgusted with their hosts, chose not to participate.

Your repeated assertion that Pakistanis are misinformed about Israel is false.

The point in contention was, "Since every time it all peters out to nothing, can Pakistanis grasp the possibility that maybe 99% of everything negative they ever heard about Israel was wrong?"

That may have been hyperbole, but by how much? In article after article I've contested here at PDF, in event after event I read about in Pakistani media and blogs, Pakistanis are at best only exposed to one facet of the truth. That is misinformation enough. Pakistanis can't even travel to Israel to check current events for themselves.

So my claim still stands: I made up nothing.

I have already debunked most of your assertions about Israel's legitimacy using the BBC documentary which clearly shows -

Who debunked what, you or the BBC? I don't recall you actually writing anything, rather you told me to go watch something. I ignored it. My time is valuable. The Prophet Muhammed was instructed to read, not watch videos.

I've pointed out previously to you that the secular, legal, ground for Israel was established by Muslims when the Ottoman Caliph endorsed the Balfour Declaration in the Treaty of Sèvres, reaffirmed when the Mandate was created by the League of Nations, and finally created and recognized by the U.N. in 1947. You have not contested this sequence of events.

Furthermore, if the BBC did what you said - and I'm not saying they did - why would I expect such claims to stand up to verification? You know they have to earn their ticket into Arab and Muslim countries somehow - it's not like the Jewish Telegraphic Agency can have an office in Pakistan or Damascus.

Time and time again, Pakistanis have severely misunderstood or been misinformed about events even within their own country - or else the Taliban would never have been permitted to rule Swat, yes? So isn't it the height of hubris for Pakistanis to imagine that they are certain enough of the facts and can judge right from wrong in a land thousands of miles away? Or even what action is in Pakistan's best interest?

At the height of the Cold War between the U.S. and U.S.S.R. what policymakers worried most about was "miscalculation". It wasn't enough to have a few facts here and there; with the great power of nuclear weapons came the burden of making decisions, for any mis-step could lead to a war of such horrific proportions that the world had never seen before and could only dimly imagine. And such judgment rested on the interpretation of facts (the meaning of what one side or another did) rather than the facts themselves.

Are you really confident that Pakistanis are up to the task?

 

[Kompromat]

Every Pakistani Must Watch This video !

WHY Israel is Supporting India & What Zionists Think about Pakistan BTW the Speaker is an Israeli Zionist with American Flag in the front and Israeli Flag at the Back !



äåãå îåì ô÷éñèï äèøåøéñèéú - Flix Video

 

[whydowelove]

Every Pakistani Must Watch This video !

WHY Israel is Supporting India & What Zionists Think about Pakistan BTW the Speaker is an Israeli Zionist with American Flag in the front and Israeli Flag at the Back !



äåãå îåì ô÷éñèï äèøåøéñèéú - Flix Video

thanks for sharing...

just one word ....FRUSTRATION......

its more of religious matter than nukes.......

one word for muslims.....UNITE

 

[Developereo]

That just means a few PAF pilots, in pursuit of glory, decided to side with those seeking to make another genocide of the Jews. It does not that Israel decided to make an enemy of Pakistan. Note that not all the Pakistani pilots who could made the decision to battle the Israelis; a number of them, probably disgusted with their hosts, chose not to participate.

The context was an Indian's assertion that Israel is invincible and Israeli militay personnel are superior. The PAF/IAF incident shatters that claim. Nobody denies that Israel has far superior weapons and the IDF are well trained, professional soldiers. But to say that they (or anyone) is invincible is plain ridiculous.

The point in contention was, "Since every time it all peters out to nothing, can Pakistanis grasp the possibility that maybe 99% of everything negative they ever heard about Israel was wrong?"

That may have been hyperbole, but by how much? In article after article I've contested here at PDF, in event after event I read about in Pakistani media and blogs, Pakistanis are at best only exposed to one facet of the truth. That is misinformation enough. Pakistanis can't even travel to Israel to check current events for themselves.

So my claim still stands: I made up nothing.

I agree that much of the debate in Pakistan about Israel is dominated by ill-informed mullahs who can offer nothing beyond anti-Semitism. That does not change the fact that the history of modern day Israel is more than enough to discredit Zionism.

Who debunked what, you or the BBC? I don't recall you actually writing anything, rather you told me to go watch something. I ignored it. My time is valuable. The Prophet Muhammed was instructed to read, not watch videos.

The BBC documentary debunked your claims. I reiterated the facts presented in that video because you refuse to watch the video. Since you also refuse to read the summary, there is no point debating it. You can chose to ignore reality and continue believing the Zionist indoctrination.

"Facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

A man after your own heart, evidently.

I've pointed out previously to you that the secular, legal, ground for Israel was established by Muslims when the Ottoman Caliph endorsed the Balfour Declaration in the Treaty of Sèvres, reaffirmed when the Mandate was created by the League of Nations, and finally created and recognized by the U.N. in 1947. You have not contested this sequence of events.

No, I have not. What I have presented is that the Balfour Declaration is already late in the game. The Zionist game plan began long before the Balfour Declaration, which was already in abrogation of British promises to Arabs. The Ottomans had all but lost the Middle East, thanks to Arab revolts within the Empire, so the Ottoman Caliph handing over Palestine is meaningless. The same (or different) Caliph had categorically refused a Zionist request for Palestine earlier in the century.

Furthermore, if the BBC did what you said - and I'm not saying they did - why would I expect such claims to stand up to verification? You know they have to earn their ticket into Arab and Muslim countries somehow - it's not like the Jewish Telegraphic Agency can have an office in Pakistan or Damascus.

If you watched the documentary, you would not make these silly claims. The program has more interviews with Israel supporters than Palestinian supporters. The acknowledgement of Zionist brutality and terrorism comes from the head of the Haganah himself, and former Israeli Prime Minister. Acknowledgement of British duplicity comes from members of the British government who were involved first hand in the relevant events.

Time and time again, Pakistanis have severely misunderstood or been misinformed about events even within their own country - or else the Taliban would never have been permitted to rule Swat, yes? So isn't it the height of hubris for Pakistanis to imagine that they are certain enough of the facts and can judge right from wrong in a land thousands of miles away? Or even what action is in Pakistan's best interest?

Once again, this is a BBC documentary with not one single Pakistani in the picture. The people interviewed are Jews, Arabs, and Britishers.

 

[Solomon2]

the history of modern day Israel is more than enough to discredit Zionism.

How so? Israel successfully integrates Jewish immigrants from all over the world, maintains the civil rights and property of its non-Jewish citizenry, and can defend its Jewish citizens against those who wish to destroy them. That goes a long way to fulfilling Theodor Herzl's vision.

The Zionist game plan began long before the Balfour Declaration, which was already in abrogation of British promises to Arabs. The Ottomans had all but lost the Middle East, thanks to Arab revolts within the Empire, so the Ottoman Caliph handing over Palestine is meaningless. The same (or different) Caliph had categorically refused a Zionist request for Palestine earlier in the century.

The Zionist "game plan" was one of gradual agricultural settlement of the Holy Land, through peaceful land purchase. True, the Ottomans had rejected - sort of - the formal creation of a Jewish Palestine in the early 20th century, but they did leave the door open for some immigration.

However, when WWI was lost, the Ottomans decided, along with the rest of the world, that the imperial model was history and agreed that its peoples should separate into nation-states. It was all the fashion of the times - this is when the Austro-Hungarian Empire was broken up into nation-states. Consequently the Ottomans did not think that Arabs, despite being the dominant nationality in their former Empire, should dominate everything everywhere.

The BBC documentary debunked your claims. I reiterated the facts presented in that video because you refuse to watch the video. Since you also refuse to read the summary, there is no point debating it. You can chose to ignore reality and continue believing the Zionist indoctrination...If you watched the documentary, you would not make these silly claims...Once again, this is a BBC documentary with not one single Pakistani in the picture.

So everything else having evaporated, you are staking the rightness of your desire to delegitimize and destroy Israel on a single documentary? That's pretty weak. If I spend the hour or so watching it and possibly debunking it will you really be happy? Would you support Israel even then? If not, why not? Do you really want me to do this?