Israel Hijacks Aid cargo, executes hostages - Pak journo, Talat Hussain taken hostage

[Jigs]

What do you smoke solomon

Something i need to get my hands on

 

[Forrest Griffin]

So there are no more questions of fact, yes? Excellent. There is only this question:

Why are you not openly endorsing the Israelis for killing the militants who assaulted them?

You are one of the most annoying members on PDF. I gather you have not much friends in real life.

 

[Pasban]

Salam.

These are the Martyrs on the Flotilla.

1. Ibrahim Bilgen, 61. Electrical Engineer. Married with six children

2. Ali Haydar Bengi, 39. Arabic literature graduate. Married with four children

3. Cevdet Kiliçlar, 38. Journalist. Married with two children

4. Cetin Topçuoglu, 54. Taekwondo champion. Married with one son

5. Necdet Yildirim, 32. IHH aid worker. Married with one daughter

6. Fahri Yaldiz, 43. Firefighter. Married with four sons

7. Cengiz Songür, 47 from Izmir. Married with 7 children

8. Cengiz Akyüz, 41. From Iskenderun. Married with three children

 

[Pasban]

9. Furkan Dogan, 19. Turkish-American dual national and student

Al-ManarTV:: Putting Names to Faces of Turkish Martyrs 08/06/2010

 

[LegionnairE]

9. Furkan Dogan, 19. Turkish-American dual national and student

Al-ManarTV:: Putting Names to Faces of Turkish Martyrs 08/06/2010

Thats the most sad one, he got shot from his head 4 times...

His murdered brutally for no reason I think Israeli soldiers especially shot him because he was holding camera

 

[turkaholic]

Thats the most sad one, he got shot from his head 4 times...

His murdered brutally for no reason I think Israeli soldiers especially shot him because he was holding camera

Here's how he was murdered. He was first beaten by the Israeli soldiers while he was down and shot 4 times. Watch the video. It is one of the saddest videos I have ever seen.

SOLOMON, THIS IS FOR YOU TO WATCH!!! But I am sure, sucking Israeli balls feels much better for you.

 

[Solomon2]

Here's how he was murdered. He was first beaten by the Israeli soldiers while he was down and shot 4 times. atch the video.

The video is unclear to me. Certainly there is not enough context to justify the label "murder". This is "war ****" designed to inflame and stifle people's thinking, not evidence.

For the laws and facts are no longer in dispute: the Israelis had the right to board the ship in international waters yet militants had prepared and launched a premeditated attack upon them. So my question remains:

Why are you not openly endorsing the Israelis for killing the militants who assaulted them?

 

[Aslan]

The video is unclear to me. Certainly there is not enough context to justify the label "murder". This is "war ****" designed to inflame and stifle people's thinking, not evidence.

For the laws and facts are no longer in dispute: the Israelis had the right to board the ship in international waters yet militants had prepared and launched a premeditated attack upon them. So my question remains:

Why are you not openly endorsing the Israelis for killing the militants who assaulted them?

I had posted this earlier, even though you are not worth wasting time on but still read it, it will make no difference to you. But it clearly talks about the same hypocrites like you. Enjoy.

I have, of course, been outraged at armed men boarding ships in international waters, killing passengers on board who attempt to resist and then forcing their ship to the hijackers' home port. I am, of course, talking about the Somali pirates who are preying on Western ships in the Indian Ocean. How dare those terrorists dare to touch our unarmed vessels on the high seas? And how right we are to have our warships there to prevent such terrorist acts.

But whoops! At least the Israelis have not demanded ransom. They just want to get journalists to win the propaganda war for them. Scarcely had the week begun when Israel's warrior "commandos" stormed a Turkish boat bringing aid to Gaza and shot nine of the passengers dead. Yet by week's end, the protesters had become "armed peace activists", vicious anti-Semites "professing pacifism, seething with hate, pounding away at another human being with a metal pole". I liked the last bit. The fact that the person being beaten was apparently shooting another human being with a rifle didn't quite get into this weird version of reality.

Robert Fisk: The truth behind the Israeli propaganda - Robert Fisk, Commentators - The Independent

 

[Solomon2]

"I have, of course, been outraged at armed men boarding ships in international waters -"

If a policeman pulls over your car and impounds your vehicle does that make him the moral equal of the criminal who does the same?

 

[M8R]

"I have, of course, been outraged at armed men boarding ships in international waters -"

If a policeman pulls over your car and impounds your vehicle does that make him the moral equal of the criminal who does the same?

If policeman pulls a car off duty or out of his department jurisdiction tthen then he is wrong.

 

[Solomon2]

^^^^^
A false analogy. This discussion reached the point where it was conceded that the Israelis were within their rights, as a belligerent with a declared blockade, to board a ship in international waters which claimed it was delivering humanitarian relief to the other belligerent.

 

[sparklingway]

"I have, of course, been outraged at armed men boarding ships in international waters -"

If a policeman pulls over your car and impounds your vehicle does that make him the moral equal of the criminal who does the same?

You've been using similar policemen ideologies for the past weeks to condone barbaric and inhumane attacks by Israel in international waters against unarmed civilians carrying relief good to people living in desperate poverty because of the Israeli blockade. Regardless of the intentions of the aid convoy, Israel had no legal or moral justification to launch an armed attack in international waters. A PR spin on the internet cannot justify murder in any way.

Indeed being well spoken, articulate or good at rhetoric does not mean that one cannot be heartless and act coldly towards the murders of innocent people. All that takes is a bit of religion, nationalism, ideological and geo-political sympathies. Declaring the people in Gaza as belligerent and defending the attack on this basis can only be expected of people who cannot help but act coldly towards the murders of activists who meant no harm.

People condoning this violence or even defending this in any way have no right whatsoever to complain against Taliban and terrorist sympathizers anymore. Neither do I care to respond to any further arguments from your side nor do I expect any sane person to be won over by your arguments.

 

[gambit]

You've been using similar policemen ideologies for the past weeks to condone barbaric and inhumane attacks by Israel in international waters against unarmed civilians carrying relief good to people living in desperate poverty because of the Israeli blockade. Regardless of the intentions of the aid convoy, Israel had no legal or moral justification to launch an armed attack in international waters. A PR spin on the internet cannot justify murder in any way.

Being in international waters does not automatically confer immunity from boarding. If anything, an intention to trespass a blockade justified boarding in international waters prior to entering the blockade zone. Sorry...But maritime laws regarding 'naval blockade' support Israel in this.

Indeed being well spoken, articulate or good at rhetoric does not mean that one cannot be heartless and act coldly towards the murders of innocent people. All that takes is a bit of religion, nationalism, ideological and geo-political sympathies. Declaring the people in Gaza as belligerent and defending the attack on this basis can only be expected of people who cannot help but act coldly towards the murders of activists who meant no harm.

Those 'activists' did mean harm. Five out of six ships complied to Israeli request for boarding. The sixth ship resisted because most likely they were alerted to the fact that Israeli troops were armed with only paintball guns and pistols. No boarding troops, not even US Coast Guard sailors, would board any vessel armed with paintball guns. No one sane would make the assumption that if his ship is going to be boarded, the blockading authority would be sending troops armed with paintball guns. So if the sixth ship resisted it only meant they knew of this weakness and decided to resist with improvised weapons. They were hardly 'peaceful'.

 

[Hussein]

Those 'activists' did mean harm. Five out of six ships complied to Israeli request for boarding. The sixth ship resisted because most likely they were alerted to the fact that Israeli troops were armed with only paintball guns and pistols. No boarding troops, not even US Coast Guard sailors, would board any vessel armed with paintball guns. No one sane would make the assumption that if his ship is going to be boarded, the blockading authority would be sending troops armed with paintball guns. So if the sixth ship resisted it only meant they knew of this weakness and decided to resist with improvised weapons. They were hardly 'peaceful'.

LOL
If i was reading you without knowing the facts i wouldn't understand people are dead.

 

[All-Green]

Being in international waters does not automatically confer immunity from boarding. If anything, an intention to trespass a blockade justified boarding in international waters prior to entering the blockade zone. Sorry...But maritime laws regarding 'naval blockade' support Israel in this.


Those 'activists' did mean harm. Five out of six ships complied to Israeli request for boarding. The sixth ship resisted because most likely they were alerted to the fact that Israeli troops were armed with only paintball guns and pistols. No boarding troops, not even US Coast Guard sailors, would board any vessel armed with paintball guns. No one sane would make the assumption that if his ship is going to be boarded, the blockading authority would be sending troops armed with paintball guns. So if the sixth ship resisted it only meant they knew of this weakness and decided to resist with improvised weapons. They were hardly 'peaceful'.

How do we know they meant harm and started the violence?
If they meant harm they would have been armed accordingly.
Those who mean harm and walk into hostile territory carry big guns.
Don't you think the people on board were at least aware of what IDF does to those who attack, even if unarmed?

At the end of the day the people on board were killed by real Israeli bullets, that is the fact of the matter so let us not go into the whole paintball scenario!

Let us look at it from another angle if people here are now reconstructing events to justify what IDF does.
Let me reconstruct events as well.
Many would agree that it would be perfectly in line with what IDF has been doing in the past.

The ships belonged to a neutral nation and the shipment was inspected by the neutral nation as well.
IDF knows that if it finds nothing contraband in all six vessels then they would have to let the flotilla pass under International law...
So what do they come up with?
They deliberately rough up the people on board one of the vessels to infuriate them and when they react an armed conflict takes place in which IDF manages to kill people (since they have more than paintball guns) and the entire episode is cited as an excuse to block the passage of the flotilla.

If Turkish warships had escorted the flotilla, Israel could not even board the flotilla.
As per international law, the guarantee of a neutral nation with accompanying warships, renders the right of inspection by the blockading country as null and void.

Let us leave the rules of engagement which apply in case of a justified war time blockade for a moment.

Does the UN support the blockade?
Does the world support Israel on the blockade except USA which does it mostly out of its strategic interests?
We are discussing that Israel is running a blockade as if it is a legal and humane action, it is a most brutal act in every sense of the word and has to be condemned...
No mention of protocol would legitimize the blockade

The UN office for coordination of humanitarian affairs has state in May 2010 that formal economy has collapsed in Gaza.
What will this lead to?
Peace or violence?
Will this push the common man towards vengeance or silent acceptance of his fate?

Gaza is situated on the coast and has access to international waters.
Gaza has a significant fishing industry which has also suffered a lot.

Regardless of any justification, the blockade of Gaza is only making matters worse!
Its impact on the prospects of peace (for benefit of any party) is extremely negative...the people of Gaza are suffering tremendously under an inhuman act of denying them basic commodities of life in adequate numbers!
When the lives of so many people are damaged and shaken up to the core the resulting hatred will breed violence in all segments of Palestinian society since the discrimination is universally applicable on them all...
However when the violence erupts...it is will be the crazy Palestinian who is to be blamed for being violent, unreasonable and bloodthirsty.
Then we shall all wonder why he throws stones at Israeli soldiers and fire bullets at Israeli tanks which naturally have to take action by firing back.
Then we suggest that Palestinians become pacifists and absolutely peaceful so that the world truly understands them and does not see them in a negative light.

At the end of the day words are wind, the fact of the matter is that the same people who will condemn violence from the Palestinian side will be quite mute in comparison when Israel is pushing Gazans into a corner and making life unsustainable for the common man.

Let us examine what the UN fact finding mission has to say about it.
Here is the link for detailed reading.
http://www.unhchr.ch/huricane/huricane.nsf/view01/9B63490FFCBE44E5C1257632004EA67B?opendocument

I will quote an excerpt here, highlighted in blue.

The Report states that Israeli acts that deprive Palestinians in the Gaza Strip of their means of subsistence, employment, housing and water, that deny their freedom of movement and their right to leave and enter their own country, that limit their rights to access a court of law and an effective remedy, could lead a competent court to find that the crime of persecution, a crime against humanity, has been committed.

The report underlines that in most of the incidents investigated by it, and described in the report, loss of life and destruction caused by Israeli forces during the military operation was a result of disrespect for the fundamental principle of “distinction” in international humanitarian law that requires military forces to distinguish between military targets and civilians and civilian objects at all times. The report states that “Taking into account the ability to plan, the means to execute plans with the most developed technology available, and statements by the Israeli military that almost no errors occurred, the Mission finds that the incidents and patterns of events considered in the report are the result of deliberate planning and policy decisions.”

For example, Chapter XI of the report describes a number of specific incidents in which Israeli forces launched “direct attacks against civilians with lethal outcome.” These are, it says, cases in which the facts indicate no justifiable military objective pursued by the attack and concludes they amount to war crimes. The incidents described include:
Attacks in the Samouni neighbourhood, in Zeitoun, south of Gaza City, including the shelling of a house where soldiers had forced Palestinian civilians to assemble;
Seven incidents concerning “the shooting of civilians while they were trying to leave their homes to walk to a safer place, waving white flags and, in some of the cases, following an injunction from the Israeli forces to do so;”
The targeting of a mosque at prayer time, resulting in the death of 15 people.

A number of other incidents the Report concludes may constitute war crimes include a direct and intentional attack on the Al Quds Hospital and an adjacent ambulance depot in Gaza City.

Sadly the only country to officially support Israel is USA, i hope it changes its stance and holds Israel accountable to its crimes, lest the situation reaches a point where there is indeed no hope of turning back and blind American support is seen as the root cause of the events that befall the ordinary man in Gaza.