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Israel Hijacks Aid cargo, executes hostages - Pak journo, Talat Hussain taken hostage

Israel admits mistakes in boarding ship

Wrong intelligence, wrong equipment, wrong tactics--Israel's military acknowledged big mistakes yesterday in the bungled boarding of an aid ship bound for Gaza in which elite troops killed nine international activists.

Though Israelis rallied to their conscripts in the face of foreign fury, the domestic recrimination -- "Foul-up" and "Fiasco" dominated newspaper headlines--betrayed an erosion of confidence recalling the setbacks of the 2006 Lebanon war.

One Israeli commentator called for the ouster of Ehud Barak, the Defence Minister. Cabinet members vowed to investigate, but their insistence the pro-Palestinian activists had provoked the bloodshed found a ready ear among irate Israelis.

Marine commandos involved in the attack pointed to a failure of intelligence.

"We did not expect such resistance from the group's activists as we were talking about a humanitarian aid group," the boarding party's commander, an unnamed naval lieutenant, who received special permission to be interviewed, told Army Radio.

"The outcome was different to what we thought, but I must say that this was mainly because of the inappropriate behaviour of the adversary we encountered."

Though Israel's police quarantine of activists from the Mavi Marmara prevented the airing of dissenting testimony, a video clip filmed by one of the passengers as the converted cruise ship was stormed showed two marines being clubbed and stabbed.

The Israeli military also released night-vision footage of a half-dozen commandos grappling with as many as 30 activists.

The images stirred undercurrents of disbelief and disgrace in Israel. Fabled for their silent exploits at sea, the fighters who rappelled onto the Mavi Marmara ship seemed unfit for the melee -- outnumbered,

almost overpowered, though not outgunned.

Jason Alderwick, a maritime warfare expert at London's International Institute for Strategic Studies, faulted the marines for not commandeering the vessel more efficiently.

"Success begins with planning and with decent intelligence, and they have boarded such ships before," he said. "This time they didn't go in hard enough, fast enough and in sufficient numbers to establish overwhelming control."

For example, some of the troops wielded paintball rifles. The non-lethal weapons, designed to bruise, beat back and mark suspects for later arrest, apparently proved of limited use against activists who had the protection of life-jackets and gas masks.

"It's clear that the equipment for crowd-dispersal with which they were issued was insufficient," said Lieutenant-General Gabi Ashkenazi, Israel's armed forces chief.

There was little question of calling off the raid once the first Israelis were in the fight and vulnerable, though the navy said some commandos opted to escape by jumping overboard.

Israel said seven marines were injured, one after activists threw him over a railing and two from gunshot wounds, possibly from sidearms that were wrested from them.

"A number of the fighters who understood the situation, the threat posed to their lives, reoriented themselves and simply worked with live [ammunition] weapons as soon as they came down," the marines lieutenant said.

Some experts questioned whether a police anti-riot unit might have tackled the resistance with less bloodshed.

But an Israeli defence official said only marines were capable of the takeover 120 kilo-metres in the choppy Mediterranean, timed for darkness to surprise the activists and deprive attendant journalists of spectacular pictures.

Matan Vilnai, Mr. Barak's deputy, brushed off the demand in the best-selling Yedioth Ahronoth daily that his boss resign. He hinted Israel had exhausted covert means of stalling the Mavi Marmara and five other vessels in a flotilla that sailed for Gaza in defiance of an Israeli campaign to isolate the Hamas movement that controls the territory.

"Everything was considered. I don't want to elaborate beyond that, because the fact is there were not up to 10, or however many ships were [originally] planned," Mr. Vilnai told Israel Radio, alluding to rumours some of the vessels had been sabotaged.

Israel admits mistakes in boarding ship
 
So what does that have to do with getting food and goods to the 1.5 million Palestinians? Lets keep politics aside. This is a humanitarian issue. Palestinians are not responsible for the statements of the leader of Iran.

Secondly, others talk about Zionist entity in Israel dying off, here Israelis are actively holding an entire population hostage to their political dispute with the government of Gaza. If anything, its the Palestinian nation that seems to be getting wiped out or having to live as third rate humans.

Blocking humanitarian aid is bad. I agree.
 

but if it wasn't for me, would PDF readers have been exposed to the truth?

nothing would have changed without you, there are different people with differnet opinion, they can clearly express themselves in any time and havent you seen the harsh encounter from the large number of PDF members against those so called hardliners? myself one of the sever critics.

Not every time. But this time, why not?

tell me when have you crirzized them and punished them for their crimes?

This was never about food, but about breaking the blockade against weapons and materiel. Israel permits the transit of thousands of tons of humanitarian aid daily.

it was about food, humanity, plight of palestinians etc. why dont you try not to know that only less than a quarter of the food required in gaza is permitted by israel. dont you know that palestinians in gaza are not allwoed to eat pasta?

Israel did try, but the materials were used for building bunkers and brand-new homes for Hamas bigwigs instead. Even the Saudis complain about Hamas stealing aid.

the same excuse all the time. if Khamas is terrorist, then israel is terrorist too, israel shold also be condmned and sanctioned

Really, if Israel was so mean-spirited as to starve Palestinians to death, don't you think you'd be hearing about it from the West Bank, too?

but you guys are destroying people's houses in the west bank, arent you? you are building illegal extremist jewish settlements. dont you think this is even worse than the hunger in gaza?

by the way, if you havent got a dual loyalty i have got something to tell you. i am begining to approve or love some of the actions of the taliban for the last few days. i am so helpless, frustrated and angry, i cant do anything else, but at least i love it when your soldiers get killed and your resources get wasted in that war. again this was directed to you if you dont have dual loyalty, and it was certainly not directed to the good american public but to their gov which is supporting terror and inhumanity.
 
Dude you should be the last one making judgement, by the way I am still waiting for an evidence on the basis of which you called me an idiot yesterday. And accused me of derailment of the thread. Apparently after which you conveniently ran away.

Hah......... Pot calling kettle black.

A) I repeat, the fact that you have no life and have been stuck on this thread for the past three days does not mean that I "run away".

B) I gave up interacting with you since you will nevre change your opinion no matter how much evidence I present to you. That has been proven time and again in this thread. Case in point:

----------> You call me a sympathiser of Israelis. I challenge you to show any post but you chicken out.

----------> I show you innumerable evidence about the aid convoy actually being a political stunt. You refuse to even read. Example:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/59878-israel-hijacks-aid-cargo-executes-hostages-pak-journo-talat-hussain-taken-hostage-74.html#post898698

So, I stand by my comment. Idiot and bigot.
 
Israel is wiping off the Palestinians from the face of the map! That is not a threat, but its actively going on. Without food and basic necessities they'll die off in a few generations. It is nothing short of a genocide.
 
Israel is wiping off the Palestinians from the face of the map! That is not a threat, but its actively going on. Without food and basic necessities they'll die off in a few generations. It is nothing short of a genocide.

If you read RiazHaq's posts, Palestaine has better humain development index then India. They have more calorie intake then India. I wonder how are they getting it.
 
Hah......... Pot calling kettle black.

A) I repeat, the fact that you have no life and have been stuck on this thread for the past three days does not mean that I "run away".

B) I gave up interacting with you since you will nevre change your opinion no matter how much evidence I present to you. That has been proven time and again in this thread. Case in point:

----------> You call me a sympathiser of Israelis. I challenge you to show any post but you chicken out.

----------> I show you innumerable evidence about the aid convoy actually being a political stunt. You refuse to even read. Example:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/59878-israel-hijacks-aid-cargo-executes-hostages-pak-journo-talat-hussain-taken-hostage-74.html#post898698

So, I stand by my comment. Idiot and bigot.


As I already knew that you are u are mentally challenged which you proved yet again. And yes Mr. Fath I called him a retard, and I wont be shocked if you come swinging at me. You asked me for a proof and I told you that that had been posted before. Now if you are too slow to comprehend that is really not my problem. About me not having a life, well what ever suits you. And as far as Me calling you a sympathizer of pews well I still stand by it, you want a post go through all of the ones that you have posted already, you will see it. You have so far not managed to condemn the acts, instead you are trying to prove otherwise. Also you have asked me to outrightly condemn the aid workers. And you know what I was right when I told you to go to hell.

And as I said I want a civilized response well I asked too much. Because a person who cant open his eyes and see that humans were killed in cold blood cant even be a human let alone civilized. Because I have never seen a donkey with manners.
 
The bottom line is that there will have to be alot of international pressure for the israelies to actually stand up and say sorry. And Turks alone cant achieve that, there has to be a united stand by all the Muslim countries, and also they have to get the countries where they can exert any pressure on board. But the chances of that happening looks dim, and the pews will carry on doing what they are doing. Kill and oppress at will. But when the Goliat gets out of hand there is always a David (Daood) to confront him.

there wont be any pressure because of america, how and what kind of pressue the others can put? it is none. unless america changes its biased and unjust attitude, the zioinists will kill the innocent people again and again and will wipe palestine from the face of the earth.
 
i have been following this thread for a while now, and didnt want to comment on it until i was well informed.

i think what Israel did was wrong and is nothing short of piracy and murder. yes, a member mentioned the flotilla was a media gimmick. but the media gimmick was needed, in order to highlight Gaza's plight. People were suffering and the point of this was to bring world attention to that! so a media gimmick was needed.

Israel had announced the naval blockade, but that doesn't give them the right to kill civilians on a humanitarian mission. they didn't have the right to board foreign vessels in international waters. yes, i did read the part about the Israeli soldiers being attacked with knives, but that shouldn't result in them opening fire. even in riots in India people use knives and throw stone, but police don't open fire with live ammo. so while the protesters attacking the soldiers was stupid, the soldiers still shouldn't have been armed with live ammo in the first place. they should have used riot gear.

Israel really doesn't have any excuse for this inhuman act. I am not an idiot, so i am not going to call for the en of Israel or death to Jews or crap like that. But i as person condemn this act and feel that Israel should apologise to the world and pay compensation to the families of the killed.
 
Look at what this Vande Mataram guy wrote on that Israeli guys page.



:lol:, learn how to send private messages. What an A hole. The poor Israeli guy ran away.

LOOOL, so he did send it to you? lol:tup:
 
As I already knew that you are u are mentally challenged which you proved yet again. And yes Mr. Fath I called him a retard, and I wont be shocked if you come swinging at me. You asked me for a proof and I told you that that had been posted before. Now if you are too slow to comprehend that is really not my problem. About me not having a life, well what ever suits you. And as far as Me calling you a sympathizer of pews well I still stand by it, you want a post go through all of the ones that you have posted already, you will see it.

And I challenged you one week's membership for showing me where I've defended Israeli actions, but you chickened out. I rest my case.

Also you have asked me to outrightly condemn the aid workers. And you know what I was right when I told you to go to hell.

Yes, I asked you to condemn the media hungry war mongers but you refused, even after been repeatedly shown proof. That's why I called you a bigot.

And as I said I want a civilized response well I asked too much. Because a person who cant open his eyes and see that humans were killed in cold blood cant even be a human let alone civilized. Because I have never seen a donkey with manners.

Frankly speaking, with a signature like that, you shouldn't talk about being civilized.

Anyways, I'm done talking to you. Good luck spreading your hate.
 
After Israel Raids Flotilla, U.S. Is Torn Between Allies

WASHINGTON — Struggling to navigate a bitter split between two important allies, the Obama administration on Tuesday tried to placate an outraged Turkish government while refusing to condemn Israel for its deadly raid on a flotilla of aid ships bound for Gaza.
President Obama telephoned Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey to express his “deep condolences” for the deaths of Turkish citizens in clashes with Israeli soldiers on the ship, the White House said. He told Mr. Erdogan that the United States was pushing Israel to return their bodies, as well as 300 Turks who were taken from the ship and being held in Israel.

Mr. Obama called for a “credible, impartial and transparent investigation of the facts surrounding this tragedy,” the White House said. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said such an investigation could include international participation, something the Israelis said they opposed.

It is far from clear that these efforts will mollify Turkey, which accused Israel of state-sponsored terrorism and likened the psychological impact of the raid to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in the United States. “No one should think we will keep quiet in the face of this,” Mr. Erdogan declared during a visit to Chile.

The deep rift between Israel and Turkey, which had cultivated close ties, puts the Obama administration in a tough spot on two of its most pressing foreign-policy issues: the Middle East and Iran.

The United States does not want to abandon Israel, which has been subjected to international opprobrium since the raid. The administration is desperate to keep alive indirect peace negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians brokered by its special envoy, George J. Mitchell.

But it also does not want to alienate Turkey, which is playing an increasingly vocal role on the world stage. Relations were already tender after the United States threw cold water on a Turkish and Brazilian effort to resolve the impasse over Iran’s nuclear program. Turkish officials complain that they negotiated the deal with the encouragement and agreement of the administration.

“Turkey and Israel are both good friends of the United States, and we are working with both to deal with the aftermath of the tragic incident,” Mrs. Clinton told reporters at the State Department after meeting with Turkey’s foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu.

She conferred with Mr. Davutoglu for more than two hours, rearranging her schedule. Mr. Obama’s national security adviser, Gen. James L. Jones, went to see him at his hotel before Mr. Obama called Mr. Erdogan.

Earlier in the day, Mr. Davutoglu harshly criticized the cautious American response to the raid, saying: “We expect full solidarity with us. It should not seem like a choice between Turkey and Israel. It should be a choice between right and wrong, between legal and illegal.”

He complained that the United States had delayed and watered down the United Nations Security Council statement on Israel, which condemned the actions on the ship rather than Israel itself.

Mr. Davutoglu demanded that Israel apologize for the attack, release the detained passengers, return the bodies of the dead, agree to an independent investigation and lift its blockade of Gaza. He said Turkey was prepared to go back to the United Nations for further action against Israel.

Israel, which defended the actions of its soldiers as a legitimate response to armed attacks by those on the ship, said it could not release the 300 passengers more quickly because they were illegal aliens and had to be held for at least 42 hours under Israeli law. Israel was also questioning 20 to 30 people who it says were directly involved in clashes with the soldiers.

“We’re going to do our best to heal the wounds with the Turks,” said Michael B. Oren, Israel’s ambassador to the United States, who also met with General Jones and other White House officials.

But Mr. Oren said Israeli authorities had asked Turkey to divert the flotilla to the Israeli port of Ashdod to avoid a confrontation with Israeli forces. He said Israel would have unloaded the cargo of construction material and humanitarian aid and arranged for it to be shipped to Gaza.

Mr. Oren said the Israelis would undertake their own investigation, but he resisted calls for international involvement. Israel has been leery of international investigations since the Goldstone report, which faulted Israel for excessive force in its military strike on Gaza in 2008.

More recently, the South Korean government has won praise for an investigation into the torpedoing of one of its warships, which was aided by the United States, Australia, Sweden and other countries. The report found that a North Korea submarine fired the torpedo.

“The Israelis have traditional and well-founded concerns about international investigations,” said a senior administration official, speaking on the condition of anonymity. “But everyone recognizes that for an investigation to be credible, others have to be able to vouch for the results.”

The flotilla case seems likely to harden Turkey’s skepticism about a United Nations resolution on Iran. Imposing more sanctions now, Mr. Davutoglu said, would only precipitate a confrontation with Iran in a few months, one that would be even riskier because of the broader tensions.

Asked what the best policy toward Iran is, he said, “Diplomacy, diplomacy, diplomacy and more diplomacy.”

After Israel Raids Flotilla, U.S. Is Torn Between Allies - NYTimes.com
 
One terrorist coming to the aid of other terrorist.

it's the terrorist state of America which is responsible for the attacks as Israel knows whatever it does, the american terrorists will always be there to support them.
 
@ prodevelopment

I hope that you are done here because enough is enough. And frankly speaking my signature is non of your damn business at the first place. It is my political right to say what ever I want to about the president of my country. Now I have no freaking Idea that why only all the indians so far have had issues with my signature, and not a single Pakistani have asked me any thing about it. Why you guys love Zardari too much or what. Mind your own damn business, and my posts that you have quoted only go on to show that how pathetic you are. Now I hope that you stick to your word and not bother answering, as I wont be too u.
 
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i have been following this thread for a while now, and didnt want to comment on it until i was well informed.

i think what Israel did was wrong and is nothing short of piracy and murder. yes, a member mentioned the flotilla was a media gimmick. but the media gimmick was needed, in order to highlight Gaza's plight. People were suffering and the point of this was to bring world attention to that! so a media gimmick was needed.

Israel had announced the naval blockade, but that doesn't give them the right to kill civilians on a humanitarian mission. they didn't have the right to board foreign vessels in international waters. yes, i did read the part about the Israeli soldiers being attacked with knives, but that shouldn't result in them opening fire. even in riots in India people use knives and throw stone, but police don't open fire with live ammo. so while the protesters attacking the soldiers was stupid, the soldiers still shouldn't have been armed with live ammo in the first place. they should have used riot gear.

Israel really doesn't have any excuse for this inhuman act. I am not an idiot, so i am not going to call for the en of Israel or death to Jews or crap like that. But i as person condemn this act and feel that Israel should apologise to the world and pay compensation to the families of the killed.

Agreed.

Israel has screwed itself. Badly. The problem with Israel is its predictable, unreasonable macho-ness.
Maybe, from a purely strategic point of view, being “spineless” once in a while isnt such a bad thing after all.
We Indians however take it to another predictable extreme.
That is, of course, our problem.
 
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