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Israel Hijacks Aid cargo, executes hostages - Pak journo, Talat Hussain taken hostage

Finally?
My friend, i have been honest throughout the discourse.
No deliberate attempt on my part to hide facts.
Of course there were and I forced that admission. The fact that Israel withdrew from Gaza cannot be hidden for long. People will question as to why would a blockade be imposed on Gaza if Israel withdrew. At the end of day, much has been made about the legality of the blockade and its alleged 'illegality' died a quick analytical death. Next was supposedly 'disproportionate' force. But then these 'peace activists' shot themselves in the foot by posting their own videos that clearly showed assault troops wielding paintball guns, making the Israeli military the laughing stock of the militaries of the world. I would not be a betting man if I were you.
 
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I think that article is just pathetic. Just a hate speech written with no civility or dignity. Any sane person can see that the author is just spewing hate against Turkey, not to mention throwing some baseless claims of Russia wanting to occupy Turkey. The same author calls Turkey a useless, resourceless land. Then why the hell would Russia want to occupy it?

Besides, he seriously underestimates Turkey. He thinks Russia can just walk in. While Russia is definitely stronger, they will know that they cant wage war on Turkey without consequences.

Really man, posting such articles will just make u lose credibility.
 
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Of course there were and I forced that admission. The fact that Israel withdrew from Gaza cannot be hidden for long. People will question as to why would a blockade be imposed on Gaza if Israel withdrew.

First of all, the withdrawal of IDF land forces from Gaza in 2005 has not changed much in terms of hardship imposed upon the Gazans.
Yet nowhere do I seem to recall that I have denied IDF withdrawal from the land on Gaza in 2005, contrary to your belief.
Forced my admission?
Be honest here my friend, where have I said that IDF did not withdraw its infantry in 2005 from the Gazan land?


At the end of day, much has been made about the legality of the blockade and its alleged 'illegality' died a quick analytical death. Next was supposedly 'disproportionate' force.

Regarding the disproportionate force, it is a fact not fiction.
There are countless examples of this by IDF and I have pasted the excerpt of one such report by UN which investigated the events in Gaza.
IDF claimed that there was no possibility of deliberate targeting of civilians and its target was Hamas.
Sadly this was proven to be untrue and UN fact finding committee gave an entirely different account.
I posted it before, highlighting some important parts and yet you seem to have ignored it because we are still arguing about the legality of Israeli actions pertaining to Gaza, despite clearly falling in line with the very definition of war crimes.
Here is the link for detailed reading, maybe it makes you understand why the legality of Israeli actions has been in question.
http://www.unhchr.ch/huricane/huricane.nsf/view01/9B63490FFCBE44E5C1257632004EA67B?opendocument

Deliberately killing civilians whom the IDF troops themselves gathered at a location, deliberately targeting a hospital, etc. These are results of UN fact finding missions and not references that have no significance.
This implicates Israel in crimes that make its operations illegal due to deliberate intent to target civilians and innocents on top of the militant heads that it collects.
This is where the legality of Israeli actions comes into question; this is where most of the world sees the blockade as an extension of the same oppression which Israel has been perpetrating in the name of self defense.

Regarding the particulars of the blockade and its legality, IDF has withdrawn from the Land but it is not like they have left Gaza alone and just resort to the blockade and inspection of goods.
IDF has practically saved itself from bloody urban battles and yet can bombard any area at any given time by using its air assets, naval vessels and its heavy artillery, which it does without any restraint. Hamas is dealt with by using maximum force resulting in a lot of collateral so IDF has not given any respite to Gazans by reducing the military approach.
To pretend that the blockade is a more peaceful posture is not correct. Blockade currently serves as an additional means to target Gazans as a whole regardless of militant or civilian; it is not an alternative to the bombardment carried out by IDF.

The fact remains that Israel has blockaded Gaza and does not let in ample provisions as per UN and other independent sources. There is a severe shortage of provisions for the use of ordinary Civilians who are all suffering as a result.
This diet program of IDF to slim down the Gazans as a whole may seem Justified to you, to me it is an illegal act of collective punishment of innocents, a war crime against a whole people and has to be condemned.

Here is what ICRC has to say about it.
BBC News - ICRC says Israel's Gaza blockade breaks law

The ICRC, a traditionally neutral organisation, paints a bleak picture of conditions in Gaza: hospitals short of equipment, power cuts lasting hours each day, drinking water unfit for consumption.
"The whole of Gaza's civilian population is being punished for acts for which they bear no responsibility. The closure therefore constitutes a collective punishment imposed in clear violation of Israel's obligations under international humanitarian law," the agency said in the statement.
And the ICRC blames differences between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority for some of Gaza's shortages.
But the key message from the body which rarely publicly criticises governments is that Israel's blockade of Gaza must be lifted.

That message is yet another indication of growing international concern over conditions in Gaza - just last week US President Barack Obama called the situation there unsustainable.


The alleged illegality of the blockade has certainly not died an analytical death as you have commented.
The flotilla raid has actually highlighted the very fact that things in Gaza are not sustainable and what Israel has been doing up til now is certainly not acceptable and in clear violation of international humanitarian law.

The blockade is not legal since it is a deliberate attempt to harm non combatants and innocents.
It is not just being used to screen for weapons or contraband as per comments by Israel on the purpose of the blockade.
At the end of the day, it is deliberately being used against all Gazans to regulate everyday items and create a shortage of these items; it is being used to let in not more than 25% of what was the requirement in 2005.
The intent therefore is to deliberately and directly make life difficult for the ordinary civilian living in Gaza.
The intent is to deliberately make the non combatants suffer.
The intent is criminal, not legal.
The action is in violation of international humanitarian law and hence it is not legal.
If this was not the intent then Israel would have had no problem in satisfying UN and other neutral parties over the amount of provisions it lets into Gaza, the policy of depriving a people of basic provisions of life in adequate quantity is not something we can allude to as legal or justified.


The population density of Gaza is extremely high and a high percentage of the area has been damaged and needs repairs. 60,000 homes were destroyed in the recent years fighting and need to be repaired as well; hospitals were deliberately targeted by IDF and shall need to be repaired as well.
All in all, there is an urgent need to restore some sort of normalcy in Gaza, which is impossible with the blockade in place.

But then these 'peace activists' shot themselves in the foot by posting their own videos that clearly showed assault troops wielding paintball guns, making the Israeli military the laughing stock of the militaries of the world.

Regarding what really happened during this particular episode, the facts have yet to be established regarding who started the violence. Surely relying just on IDF accounts and a brief video processed by Israel is not enough evidence in a court of inquiry.
The peace activists give a different account. The video released so far by Israel stops before the soldiers in the video open fire. The other videos are in bits and pieces as well.
The activists were killed by bullets and not paintball guns, the IDF did not just use paintball guns at the end of the day.

Lots of videos were confiscated by IDF which brutally beat up many journalists/activists during the post operation investigation.
Certainly there needs to be a proper inquiry to establish what happened and more importantly in what order.
Things need to be verified and not just in light of what Israel has to say or offer as evidence or bits and pieces analyzed in isolation.

Were the Israeli commandos in a do or die situation prior to killing the activities?
Were the dead activists attacking IDF soldiers when they were shot? What were the dead activists armed with when they were killed? When did IDF first shoot at the flotilla?

If IDF did nothing wrong and all evidence is in its favor as you so vehemently have been advocating, then surely Israelis have nothing to fear from an independent inquiry by UN.
A UN inquiry is something very much valid here since this was an event which occurred in international waters and with many nationalities involved. What better way to exonerate its soldiers than a UN inquiry?

Surely it would only help Israel if it has not done wrong. Instead as per its norm, Israel has constituted its own commission to investigate the raid.
The defendant shall be both the prosecutor and the Jury.
That has mostly been the way with Israel; it is accountable to no one and has friends in high places to block any attempt to check this tendency of zero accountability.
That is the reason Israel will never be trusted by the Palestinians and most of the world.

I would not be a betting man if I were you.

I am not a betting man, but i can bet one thing.
The day USA stops shielding Israel in the UN security council, the situation will start to improve, otherwise it is a highway to hell for the Palestinian people.
 
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Palestinian Terrorist Propaganda:

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Which hostages ? All the Turkish ones are back in Turkey i don't think anyone is left in Israel.

now there are boats leaving Lebanon, from what I have heard. Also, Iranian are sending aid boats as well -- which will be VERY VERY interesting to see how that goes down.

they will probably aerial bombard it, then say the activists threw rocks at the flying aircrafts





'self defence national security...self defence self defence'




self-created BULLSHIT
 
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now there are boats leaving Lebanon, from what I have heard. Also, Iranian are sending aid boats as well -- which will be VERY VERY interesting to see how that goes down.

they won't care who is sending ships but it will be interesting to see what happens when Iranian ships arrives near Gaza shores.:devil:
 
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now there are boats leaving Lebanon, from what I have heard. Also, Iranian are sending aid boats as well -- which will be VERY VERY interesting to see how that goes down.

they will probably aerial bombard it, then say the activists threw rocks at the flying aircrafts





'self defence national security...self defence self defence'




self-created BULLSHIT

I wouldn't be surprised. They played out the whole weapons crap on the Turkish ship so much i thought they had found WMDs on it. Till i saw the kitchen knives :rofl:. Who knows what they will say and do and blame on next.
 
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I am really concerned at the condition of the people of Gaza....it's nuts out there....but still they are called as ''TERRORISTS'' while the israelis are ''DEFENDING THEIR COUNTRY''.....look now everyone knows of this propaganda BUT no one acts against it....only one solution can be done and that is that ALL muslim countries unite together against this ''UNRECOGNIZABLE COUNTRY''......:sniper:

Hope to meet Gaza people soon.....don't you worry because we are cominbg soon REALLY SOON then you might expect us to.....

and soon WE will say....

:welcome: to GAZA!!!! THE CAPITAL OF PALESTINE!!!!!
 
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Roger Cohen of NYT

Wednesday, June 16, 2010

M Shahid Alam

Roger Cohen is the rare columnist at New York Times who makes an occasional effort to bring some objectivity to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Yet, how far does his objectivity go?

Consider his piece of June 10, "Modern Folly and Ancient Wisdom."

I have selected a few excerpts for comment.

First excerpt: "Israel's bloody interception of the Mavi Marmara and its motley crew was crass -- another example of the counterproductive use of force -- but nothing about it could justify the Turkish prime minister's outrageous statement that the world now perceives "the swastika and the Star of David together (italics mine)."

Why does he speak of the "motley crew" on the Mavi Marmara? First, is 'crew' the appropriate word for the humanitarian activists on a ship bringing relief to people under blockade? 'Crew' has unpleasant connotations. Let us consult the Oxford English Dictionary. Originally, it meant "an augmentation or reinforcement of a military force." Now, by extension, it means "Any organised or associated force, band, or body of armed men."

In addition, why is this a 'motley' crew? Does he mean heterogeneous? In fact, most were Turkish. Why then are they "motley?" The word has a bad odour. The OED concurs. Consider two entries in the OED. Entry one: "Of a thing or collection of things: composed of elements of diverse or varied character, form, appearance, etc. Freq. with implication of poor design or organisation (italics added)." And entry two: Of a gathering or group of people: consisting of people of diverse or varied appearance, character, etc.; miscellaneous. Freq. depreciative (italics in the original).

Now consider this: Israel's behaviour was merely "crass – another example of the counterproductive use of force." So Cohen disapproves of Israel's behaviour because it is "crass" (stupid) and "counterproductive" to Israel. Nothing worse. On the other hand, the Turkish prime minister's statement is "outrageous." Criticism aimed at Israel is "outrageous" but Israel's massacre of humanitarian activists is merely "crass."

There is myopia too behind Cohen's anger at the Turkish prime minister's statement. He claims, "There is nothing about it [the illegal Israeli massacre of civilians]" that can justify Erdogan's statement. Is Erdogan's outrage a response only to the attack on the Flotilla – or is the world's perception of Israel slowly catching up to its long history of settler colonialism, ethnic cleansings, illegal wars, countless massacres of civilians, and wars daily threatened against Lebanon, Syria and Iran? Such myopia is inexcusable in one who should be better schooled in the Middle East.

Second excerpt: "Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the bristling leader who has given Kemal Ataturk's secular Turkey an Islamic tinge and an eastward-looking inclination, should know better than to invoke the Nazis when speaking of a state that emerged from the ashes of European Jewry (italics mine)."

Israel as "a state that emerged from the ashes of European Jewry" - that's a page out of Israeli hasbara. Using the Holocaust to justify the creation of Israel and the 'right' of Israel to immunity from international law. The Zionist movement was launched when Adolf Hitler was barely eight years old. Inside the supportive shell of the British occupation of Palestine, the Zionists in Palestine had already created the infrastructure of a Jewish society and state by the early 1930s, again long before the Holocaust. I am sure Roger Cohen knows all this; but does not matter to the way he thinks about Israel?

Third excerpt: "But it is still a liberal democracy, home to a level of debate and openness unknown elsewhere in the Middle East (italics added)."

Is Israel "still a liberal democracy?" Consensus on that claim is fast disappearing, even in partisan western societies. Then follows something inexcusably lame: he compares Israel to the despotisms supported by and allied to the USA and Israel. Look, Israel is still a liberal democracy: just compare it to the despotic monarchy of Saudi Arabia.

Fourth excerpt: "Its tactical lurches, often violent, do not add up to a strategy; they have resulted in a shocking erosion of Israel's stature."

Given what Israel is – an apartheid society, a garrison state founded on ethnic cleansing, a state that still practices ethnic cleansing, a nuclear-armed state threatening warfare against its neighbours – why should the erosion of Israel's "stature" be "shocking"? Shouldn't persons of liberal and humane values welcome this erosion? No so Roger Cohen of the New York Times.

Enough said: if this is what comes from the pen of a self-consciously liberal and humane Zionist, what can we expect from the rest of the "motley crew?"



The writer is professor of economics at Northeastern University, Boston. He is author of Israeli Exceptionalism (Palgrave, 2009) and Challenging the New Orientalism (IPI, 2006). Email: alqalam02760@ yahoo.com
 
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I hate to admit it. But i'm enjoying this.

I was not even 20 years old during the 2nd intifada when israel (under sharon regime) carried out its ritualistic killings of mostly civilians.

and 10 years later, finally some people are having the courage to speak out against this country.


Norman Finkelstein on a 'lunatic state'



French Protest of Israeli Raid Reaches Wide Audience

the ban was another sign of the growing “delegitimization of Israel” among the intellectual classes in France.

French Protest of Israeli Raid Reaches Wide Audience - NYTimes.com

USS Liberty attack remembered by survivor

(dont be fooled by the title, just read the last paragraph)

USS Liberty attack remembered by survivor - RT Top Stories


btw, Putin, EU and even Godfather Obama have condemned the action
 
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I wouldn't be surprised. They played out the whole weapons crap on the Turkish ship so much i thought they had found WMDs on it. Till i saw the kitchen knives :rofl:. Who knows what they will say and do and blame on next.

I dont like to joke on a sensitive topic like this, but next time, make good doner with those knives :cheers:
 
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Israeli ministers to vote on easing Gaza blockade


By AMY TEIBEL (AP) –

JERUSALEM — Israel will significantly ease its bruising blockade of the Gaza Strip on Wednesday, officials said, in an effort to blunt the widespread international criticism that has followed a deadly Israeli commando raid on a blockade-busting flotilla.
Senior Cabinet ministers were meeting to limit restrictions to a short list of goods, such as cement and steel, which Israel says militants could use in their battle against the Jewish state.
But even those goods would be allowed in to an undetermined extent in coordination with the United Nations, the officials said. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the decision has not been officially announced.
Israel, with Egypt's cooperation, has blockaded the Palestinian territory by land and sea ever since Hamas militants, with a violent anti-Israel agenda, seized control of Gaza three years ago. For the most part, only basic humanitarian goods have been allowed in.
The blockade was designed to keep out weapons, turn Gazans against their militant Hamas rulers and pressure Hamas to free a captive Israeli soldier. It did not achieve those aims, however, and both weapons and goods continued to flow into the territory through a large network of smuggling tunnels built under the Gaza-Egypt border.
But although the blockade deepened the poverty in Gaza and confined 1.5 million people to a tiny patch of land, it did not provoke an international outcry until Israeli commandos killed nine Turks two weeks ago during a raid on a Gaza-bound flotilla.
The Haaretz newspaper on Wednesday quoted international envoy Tony Blair as hailing the expected vote by the Israeli ministers.
"It will allow us to keep weapons and weapon materials out of Gaza, but on the other hand to help the Palestinian population there," Blair was quoted as saying. "The policy in Gaza should be to isolate the extremists but to help the people"
Blair represents the Quartet of Mideast negotiators — the U.S., European Union, U.N. and Russia.
 
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