Islamic scholar Tahir ul-Qadri issues terrorism fatwa

[waraich66]

ooo bhai. shariah law is supreme or not supreme depends on your constitution and not democracy. if your constitution is shariah based then all the laws are in accordance with Quran and Sunnah. once you have got this then it doesnt matter how you run the administrative affairs.

Islamic way of governance emphesis on quality not quantity , in democratic system majority is authority which is not acceptable to Shariah .

Legislation assembly elected on basis of democratic system could not change the democratic system to shariah system , it is dependent on number game means 100 fools will win and one wise person will loose.

secondly you did not tell me why was there voting when electing all four caliphs. isnt that democracy which is what tahir ul qadri sahab said. and instead of proving his argument wrong you are simply relying on your one liners

Again you are mixing two entirely different systems, in Khalafat shourah is responsible for selection of Khalifah or Amir based on his character ,sacrifice for Islam and strength of faith , if some body wanted to become Amir he will be disqualified .

Democracy system based on two or more parties participating in election , which is contrary with shariah because it creat division in Ummah.

 

[waraich66]

Why would you say something derogatory and rude? Try to be more compassionate and understanding of people's views. There is no GREAT FITNA here, just different opinions and points of views.

To have a decent conversation we must not talk in such absolute terms and try to promote some sort of cordial and friendly relations between each other. This is a debating platform, not a fish market. Be nice!

When ever any religious leader practicing some thing which is contrary to religious principles based on all known fiqa , hadees and Quran , then this practice could creat differences , fasad and fitna in Ummah, which should be stopped at national level , it is responsibility of whole muslim nation.

What is indecent in my remarks , it is a positive critisim which is as per forum rules.

Although i agree with you that we should not involved in personal critisim for sake of critisim only.

 

[Hyde]

@ Fundamentalist

You are talking about Shariah and Shariah law and the Khalifah etc

i want to say something here but i know all of our posts will be deleted later on so i won't write long article once again. Just one question Fundamantalist what really is Sharia? i wrote my question couple of days ago explaining brief introduction of election procedure of all four Rightly Guided Caliphs. All of them were chosen with completely different procedure. But never found a satisfactory answer from others........ if incase this thread is closed or your posts are deleted you are most welcome to come on MSN and please explain me what really is Sharia Law? How should the Khalifa be elected and how does the Shariat system run? As far as i know one Khalifa was elected by a certain group of peoples, second khalifa was chosen after the will of Hazrat Abu Bakr R.A., third Khalifa was chosen by Ashra-Mubashra and the fourth Khalifa was chosen again by the certain group of peoples but having so many dis-similarities between other Khalifas (Caliphs)

The question can be widened by asking about how the economic system of that Shariah system is going to work? and how other top leaders like Finance minister or other leaders going to be elected? it can be further widened by asking other similar questions but just tell me how are you going to elect Khalifa first? let alone the whole system

and i am not going to argue as i know all the posts are going to be deleted anyway

 

[FireFighter]

It's ascribing domination of one human being over the other. We're all equal, and this is overkill respect. Kissing anybody's feet is wrong in my book. This is an example of fanatical following. In my entire life of living in the Muslim world, I'm yet to see this happen, let alone it happening with any degree of regularity.

When we talk about Shirk, and accuse someone1 of it which is the greatest Sin against Allah swt in Islam, or any other sin prohibited in Islam, we're strictly dealing with Islamic law and legal aspect of Islam.

Now, purely from an Islamic legal perspective, what is the difference between a Hand and a Feet? Is a hand more sacred than feet in Islamic law? or are they both the same? therefore, how is kissing hands any different from kissing feet? More importantly, does God look at ones hand or feet for intentions? Or does he look at the heart? wherein resides intentions and love...

You know, lovers kiss each others hands, going by the logic, is kissing of a lover's hand also wrong? Is the act of kissing one's fathers hand or a mother's feet also wrong?

In Islamic law, making Sajda/sujood to anyone is Haram, strictly forbidden, here I am strictly speaking of the "act" of sajda alone discounting intentions and whatnot that goes on. However, if the act of Sujda is done with the intention of prostrating anyone other than Allah or making partners with Allah, only then it becomes Shirk.


however the act of making a sajda at a grave or at anyone's feet without actual intention for the sin for that matter alone doesn't make one a mushrik.

From the video it seems like they are all ghareeb ghurba type people. How come no one educated has decided to pay his respects?

I agree with you in essence that when these poor or uneducated people with no material or intellectual wealth in this world to take pride in are given hopes of a better future, a better Akhira, and Paradise by charismatic scholars and leaders, they all go gung ho crazy over them.

I'm not talking about Shirk, or no shirk. I'm accepting the explanation that there's a distinction. I'm just saying its still very wrong.

I think you should also realize that Dr. Tahir ul Qadri doesn't ask people to kiss his hands and feet, unless you can provide proof of it.

I agree with you and I am personally of the opinion that It's not justifiable at all because it is something that leads to bad disobediance of the Malik.

But...when when charismatic Scholars are in such influential positions, there's little they can do to restrict people's freedom of expressions..


I don't blame the poor, because he's so poor, I blame myself because i'm not able to educate them.

All in all, Dr. Tahir ul Qadri is a marvel in today's time for Muslims. and this is coming from someone who doesn't follow his Sufi school of thought. Just giving credit where its due..

 

[gambit]

What happens when say Tahir ul Qadri, goes nuts? Lets says he goes like "You cannot Suicide bomb, but pick up a gun and start fighting". If we agree that he is "religiously correct" about this, then he can be correct about anything.

My problem is following God through 'God's men', rather than using one's own reasoning and intellect.

Of course there is a benefit.

The Non-Muslims are always complaining that "although most Muslims are not terrorists, they DO NOT voice their opposition", or something like that.

Here in the UK this is big news - so it's raised good awareness...

Honestly speaking, some of the individuals here make me sick.

There's nothing wrong with him denouncing the suicide bombing, I'm saying theres something wrong with the situation if Muslims only figure it out after a fatwa (obviously not true, but made to seem so), rather than on their own.

Each person can listen to them but ultimately what one must do is that the final decision should be your own after reading books like the Quran, after reading newspapers, after reading a host of ideals laid down by key historic figures and then make a human judgement as to what is right and what is wrong.

One guy alone should not steer a community with us following as blind zombies.

I was googling up Tahir ul Qadri, to read up on his bio. I bumped into videos of people prostrating to him. Thats insane. As far as I know in Islam people only Prostrate in one direction and not in front of anybody.

It is obvious that already a little too much power has been accorded to Tahir Qadri, that Muslims are coming down and offering Sajood. Of course some excuse is being offered that this is not prostration by Kadam bosi (kissing feet) which is allowed in Islam, in my entire life of living in Muslim countries, I've yet to see any Muslim Prostrate or kiss anybody's feet.

This is the exact problem I have with Mullahs. People follow them like zombies and convert them into demigods.

agreed with Ajpirzada on his previous posts



If these scholars are not going to issue fatwah's then are you going to guide us what is Islamically right or wrong? if yes then on what basis? From the teachings of our Prophet or from your own theory based on ?

The point is not if Tahir ul Qadri 'goes nuts' or not. The point is that he provide, in business term, a service.

Let us take the three Abrahamic religions for now. From my understanding, our mission here is to live as full lives as possible on this Earth to do "God's will", whatever that mean is besides the point, but what is the point is that we are to supposed to live in service to each other within each religious framework. Should I take my life in anger just because the fast food clerk gave me onion rings instead of fries? Absolutely not. But should I be willing to give up my life, if necessary, in service of king and for defense of country? Yes I would. What are 'pep talks', rallies or religious sermons? They are ritualistic mechanisms designed to give us the impression that what we are about to do, whatever those things are, is necessary, correct and perhaps even righteous in God's eyes. So for a muslim to give up his life BEFORE living a full life in service of other muslims and perhaps non-muslims, in as violent an act like strapping explosives to his body and destroy his life along other lives, require no less than permission from Allah Himself. Debating whether that permission legitimately came from God via burning bushes or clerics or not is also beside the point, which is that permission to end one's life and/or take other lives must come from the creator, not from self. That is why for Catholics, suicide is an unforgiveable sin. That is why clerics blesses soldiers prior to battle, to give them assurances that what they are about to do has divine approval.

It is easier to dismiss this as merely an amusing case of dueling fatwas and personality cults than to acknowledge the reality that you muslims, no different from us Christians or Jews, NEED divine guidance, especially in this trying time for your faith. You MUST settle the question among yourselves -- Is it possible for suicide bombing to legitimately came from a divine source? It is equally important a question for the Christians because the current state of Christianity came from many similar religious conflicts -- Martin Luther for one. Luther did not rebeled against the Catholic Church from a position of ignorance. He was one of Catholicism's priests and theologians, they who attempt to decipher and perhaps even claimed to know the divine will of God. The phrase "It is God's Will." is quite hackneyed among Christians. Before Luther, there were plenty of critics against the Catholic Church, from men of science to men in governments but Luther succeeded because his opposition were within a religious framework and that made what he said more palatable to people.

Just as how men before Luther failed to convince the Catholic Church, Christians and Jews pointing fingers at the muslims will make muslims more self-conscious and defensive. Unfortunately, that is all we can do before all sides resort to all out war to protect against what our religious and political leaders proclaimed to be threats. So is it Allah's Will that a muslim strap on explosives and detonate himself in a marketplace filled with those whom his mullah proclaimed to be enemies of God? If it is not Allah's will, then show me why my mullah is wrong and yours is correct. An Islamic cleric, not a Christian priest or a Jewish rabbi, is required in this situation. Christians and Jews cannot convince muslims of either Yes or No of Allah's will. Dueling religious edicts -- WITHIN AN ISLAMIC FRAMEWORK -- is the only solution.

 

[waraich66]

@ Fundamentalist

You are talking about Shariah and Shariah law and the Khalifah etc

i want to say something here but i know all of our posts will be deleted later on so i won't write long article once again. Just one question Fundamantalist what really is Sharia? i wrote my question couple of days ago explaining brief introduction of election procedure of all four Rightly Guided Caliphs. All of them were chosen with completely different procedure. But never found a satisfactory answer from others........ if incase this thread is closed or your posts are deleted you are most welcome to come on MSN and please explain me what really is Sharia Law? How should the Khalifa be elected and how does the Shariat system run? As far as i know one Khalifa was elected by a certain group of peoples, second khalifa was chosen after the will of Hazrat Abu Bakr R.A., third Khalifa was chosen by Ashra-Mubashra and the fourth Khalifa was chosen again by the certain group of peoples but having so many dis-similarities between other Khalifas (Caliphs)

The question can be widened by asking about how the economic system of that Shariah system is going to work? and how other top leaders like Finance minister or other leaders going to be elected? it can be further widened by asking other similar questions but just tell me how are you going to elect Khalifa first? let alone the whole system

and i am not going to argue as i know all the posts are going to be deleted anyway

All over the world Khilafat is operative but very few people know this fact , for example TJ has one Amir stationed in India and for each country they have Amir and similarly for each distt ,county and province they have oppointed Amir .Any one become their member who completed 4 months training in Tableeg, so any professionals or technocrates ,labour can become their life time members , they are working on volounter basis , if you want to see how this system practically operative, you can visit raiwind, they have more then 60 departments , Amir was selected for life time once and after his death new amir will be selected with the vote of shourah, basis on level of faith,continues participation in dawah work.

 

[Xtremeownage]

Tahir ul Qadri just wanted fame nothing else , there is no need for fatwa on suicidel , it is haram as per islam and no muslim has any doubt .

Back-biting and false accusations are haram, get a life you hypocrite!

Atleast Tahir ul Qadri is doing something against the evil Wahabi terrorists. And ungrateful and hypocritical morons like yourself only criticize and bring baseless accusations!

 

[Xtremeownage]

What happens when say Tahir ul Qadri, goes nuts? Lets says he goes like "You cannot Suicide bomb, but pick up a gun and start fighting". If we agree that he is "religiously correct" about this, then he can be correct about anything.

My problem is following God through 'God's men', rather than using one's own reasoning and intellect.

Tahir ul Qadri provided evidence in a detailed 604 page report, and provided backing to his statements. This was not simply because he happens to be a religious leader. If the man wants to be religiously correct, he should provide the evidence.

Also, it's people who used their own reasoning and bad-intellect which is why we have so many sects now a days. We need strong leadership and good people to associate ourselves with.

You can't just use reasoning and intellect to become a doctor and engineer. You need a teacher and leader to show you the in and outs of the field! The same can be said about religion!

 

[waraich66]

Back-biting and false accusations are haram, get a life you hypocrite!

Atleast Tahir ul Qadri is doing something against the evil Wahabi terrorists. And ungrateful and hypocritical morons like yourself only criticize and bring baseless accusations!

Non sense,

Personal attack nothing else , your attitude and personal attack is reflection of your weak character.

zoinist and neo cons wanted to divide muslim ummah , they need mir jaffar mir sadaq and they are succesfull in their plans, they defeated talaban with northern alliance, defeated sadam in Iraq with maqtadar sadar.

In Pakistan they are planning to weaken our nation by dividing shia sunni and bralvi sects.

 

[gambit]

Tahir ul Qadri provided evidence in a detailed 604 page report, and provided backing to his statements. This was not simply because he happens to be a religious leader. If the man wants to be religiously correct, he should provide the evidence.

Also, it's people who used their own reasoning and bad-intellect which is why we have so many sects now a days. We need strong leadership and good people to associate ourselves with.

You can't just use reasoning and intellect to become a doctor and engineer. You need a teacher and leader to show you the in and outs of the field! The same can be said about religion!

Not necessarily a good analogy. Doctors and engineers must obey the laws of nature, which for what we know are not hidden from anyone in the field. Whereas the nature of the godhood is still mysterious, so much so that its mysteries produces the many religions we have today. I can argue that may be the diversity of religions and the historical and global turmoil that came from said diversity are the consequences of the combination of the mysteries of the godhood and the incompetency of religious leaders in figuring out those mysteries.

 

[Awesome]

The point is not if Tahir ul Qadri 'goes nuts' or not. The point is that he provide, in business term, a service.

Let us take the three Abrahamic religions for now. From my understanding, our mission here is to live as full lives as possible on this Earth to do "God's will", whatever that mean is besides the point, but what is the point is that we are to supposed to live in service to each other within each religious framework. Should I take my life in anger just because the fast food clerk gave me onion rings instead of fries? Absolutely not. But should I be willing to give up my life, if necessary, in service of king and for defense of country? Yes I would. What are 'pep talks', rallies or religious sermons? They are ritualistic mechanisms designed to give us the impression that what we are about to do, whatever those things are, is necessary, correct and perhaps even righteous in God's eyes. So for a muslim to give up his life BEFORE living a full life in service of other muslims and perhaps non-muslims, in as violent an act like strapping explosives to his body and destroy his life along other lives, require no less than permission from Allah Himself. Debating whether that permission legitimately came from God via burning bushes or clerics or not is also beside the point, which is that permission to end one's life and/or take other lives must come from the creator, not from self. That is why for Catholics, suicide is an unforgiveable sin. That is why clerics blesses soldiers prior to battle, to give them assurances that what they are about to do has divine approval.

It is easier to dismiss this as merely an amusing case of dueling fatwas and personality cults than to acknowledge the reality that you muslims, no different from us Christians or Jews, NEED divine guidance, especially in this trying time for your faith. You MUST settle the question among yourselves -- Is it possible for suicide bombing to legitimately came from a divine source? It is equally important a question for the Christians because the current state of Christianity came from many similar religious conflicts -- Martin Luther for one. Luther did not rebeled against the Catholic Church from a position of ignorance. He was one of Catholicism's priests and theologians, they who attempt to decipher and perhaps even claimed to know the divine will of God. The phrase "It is God's Will." is quite hackneyed among Christians. Before Luther, there were plenty of critics against the Catholic Church, from men of science to men in governments but Luther succeeded because his opposition were within a religious framework and that made what he said more palatable to people.

Just as how men before Luther failed to convince the Catholic Church, Christians and Jews pointing fingers at the muslims will make muslims more self-conscious and defensive. Unfortunately, that is all we can do before all sides resort to all out war to protect against what our religious and political leaders proclaimed to be threats. So is it Allah's Will that a muslim strap on explosives and detonate himself in a marketplace filled with those whom his mullah proclaimed to be enemies of God? If it is not Allah's will, then show me why my mullah is wrong and yours is correct. An Islamic cleric, not a Christian priest or a Jewish rabbi, is required in this situation. Christians and Jews cannot convince muslims of either Yes or No of Allah's will. Dueling religious edicts -- WITHIN AN ISLAMIC FRAMEWORK -- is the only solution.

In that sense its correct, that Muslims need to settle this amongst ourselves. I'm just in disagreement with the suggested MO of this process.

I think we need to discuss, debate, argue and self-evaluate our positions on Islamic matters, rather than pin hopes of a deduction on a Mullah. We're acknowledging that we're not good enough to figure out that Suicide bombings is wrong. Do we really need a 604 page report citing incidents and Quran to suggest that? It could be his argument to support himself in the debate, but it becomes valid, only after the Muslim decides for himself that Suicide bombing is wrong.

You know how easy it is to negate Qadri's comments? Listen to a thread called "Interview with a suicide bomber". Some misguided soul says "Our Ameer (leader) has said that all Pakistani Muftis and Alims are Kafirs". End of discussion.

The interviewer kept digging for his own personal justifications of attempting a suicide bombing, but most of his answers were "Ameer said so".

 

[Awesome]

Back-biting and false accusations are haram, get a life you hypocrite!

Atleast Tahir ul Qadri is doing something against the evil Wahabi terrorists. And ungrateful and hypocritical morons like yourself only criticize and bring baseless accusations!

Like it or not you and Fundo are both two sides of the same coin. Each arguing for their own extremist brand of Islam and imposing your ideals upon the other.

To begin with - Can you both be nice? At least don't be rude to each other or anyone else. Think about it this way, what sort of representation are you both doing for your beliefs? The first impression that comes off is "Yaar yeh log toh hain hi badtameez, inke moonh kaun lagay".

Be a little kind to each other and discuss not for the sake of converting the other or shaming the other, but to understand each other. Normal human behavior 101.

 

[gambit]

In that sense its correct, that Muslims need to settle this amongst ourselves. I'm just in disagreement with the suggested MO of this process.

I think we need to discuss, debate, argue and self-evaluate our positions on Islamic matters, rather than pin hopes of a deduction on a Mullah. We're acknowledging that we're not good enough to figure out that Suicide bombings is wrong. Do we really need a 604 page report citing incidents and Quran to suggest that? It could be his argument to support himself in the debate, but it becomes valid, only after the Muslim decides for himself that Suicide bombing is wrong.

You know how easy it is to negate Qadri's comments? Listen to a thread called "Interview with a suicide bomber". Some misguided soul says "Our Ameer (leader) has said that all Pakistani Muftis and Alims are Kafirs". End of discussion.

The interviewer kept digging for his own personal justifications of attempting a suicide bombing, but most of his answers were "Ameer said so".

How would you like it if someone came along and posted a 302 page thesis on why suicide bombing carries Allah's approval while you have none? Go back to the doctors and engineers analogy for a moment. When was the last time you disputed your doctor when/if he said you needed an appendectomy as you doubled over in pain? The more details we know and documented about a phenomenon, a physical object or an action, the less 'wiggle room' we have to dispute about the object's nature. We cannot say this about religions in general and the godhood in particular. The result is idol worshiping. So either you take that 604 page thesis against suicide bombing and study it or you had be prepared to put up with far less explanations and justifications on the positive aspect of suicide bombing.

 

[seekers]

Can Sharia contractors mullahs give me answer of Sajdah of Malaeka to Hazrat ADAM(A.S), which was certianly not just mustahib or tazeemi,because the denier is iblees.??????
Can shariat holder mullahs justify this act was shirk or not which had deprived iblees from TAUBA(forgivness) and had expeled from Pradise??

This question is also from self made amirs of tableeghis. If they don't have answer than must reverse their belief in Qurran.

Note: This is not just one sajdah in Qurran to Human being.

 

[Awesome]

Not necessarily a good analogy. Doctors and engineers must obey the laws of nature, which for what we know are not hidden from anyone in the field. Whereas the nature of the godhood is still mysterious, so much so that its mysteries produces the many religions we have today. I can argue that may be the diversity of religions and the historical and global turmoil that came from said diversity are the consequences of the combination of the mysteries of the godhood and the incompetency of religious leaders in figuring out those mysteries.

I would add to this, that whatever a doctor suggests can be scientifically verified, heck even from Google if your IQ is about the average level and put your mind to it.

What a Mullah says is a matter of opinion. Kill the kafirs. There are like a 100 Ayats in the Quran that tell you to kill someone or the other. However the justification is usually Self-Defence, or other such major threats.

The distinction of this justification is a matter of opinion. Some interpret it that way, some interpret it that whatever the reason, kill em all! And you'll find many who fit in both categories in Pakistan. People like Maulana Bijli, repeatedly justifies that "This is what the Quran says" and he is an Imam at mosque, he has a following. It is evident people follow Mullahs blindly and this zombification of Muslims is at the heart of the problem.