Islamic Golden Age - Series

[jamahir]

Those leaders are dead right now and have became fertilizer

So what if they are bodily dead ?? Their ideas, works and legacy is not dead.

Or do you prefer accepting the ideas of any nonsense person just because he or she is alive ??

Going by your logic you should not be believing in Islam because the Messenger of Islam is dead.

We are supposed to follow Quran and Sunnah that is to remain here till the end of times

What are you thoughts on the Pakistani dog breed Bully Kutta ??

Indian muslims can look and wear whatever they want to. You have no right telling them what they should wear and look like

I have every right doing so. I see myself contributing to positive guidance of the Indian Muslims in a few years.

Islam asks women to cover themselves and that can be done with anything including Burqa

Covering up is not the same as wearing the extra, oppressive cloak called the burqa. The normal clothes are sufficient.

Read this. It quotes the Quran :

Most of the translators, obviously influenced by the hadith translate the word as VEIL and thus mislead people into believing that this verse is advocating the covering of the head and hair, some even go to the extent of claiming that 24:31 implies the covering of the face! But the truth is that the word khimaar simply means a cover, any cover is called khimaar in Arabic. The derivative word khamrah, which means intoxicants, is so called because it covers the brain.

In 24:31, God is telling the women to use their cover (khimaar, being a dress, a coat, a shawl, a shirt, a blouse, a tie, a scarf . . . etc.) to cover their bosoms, not their heads, face or hair. If God willed to order the women to cover their heads, face or hair, He would have simply said, “Cover your head, face and hair.” God is neither vague nor forgetful! God does not run out of words. He does not wait for, nor need a scholar to apply the correct words for Him! God confirms that the Quran is complete and fully detailed (6:114/5).

It is a crime that so many men who have coaxed, or pressured, or demanded that their women wear the burqa, or that their daughters wear a hijab prematurely, are most probably unable or unwilling to read the Quran and uphold its tenants, being totally dependent on the interpretations incorrectly preached to them by immoderate clerics and cultural exhortations not based on pure religion. The problem with so many clerics in powerful positions within many Islamic communities around the globe, is that these religious leaders do not allow for intellectual freedom, or personal interpretation when it comes to matters of self assessed modesty and female dressing because of the narrowness in which they view women’s supposedly intemperate sexuality and the lack of self-control in men.

I can find other such references but this will do.

You should stop listening to misguided people like Tariq Jameel who have anti-intellectual, regressive, non-scientific and non-Islamic ideas.

This lady is nobody first of all. Not a religoous authority in any manner

To reply to the red text first, Gaddafi was the imam of all Muslims, according to me and a few others. His understanding of Islam was different and evolved than your Tariq Jameel types.

As for the woman in question, Amna Nosseir, she is a former professor of philosophy in Al-Azhar University, Cairo, which is a place sought by many Muslim authorities for fatwas in many matters. Would that be okay for you ??

Secondly there are various things in Islam that have their roots in previsions semantic religions

Which things other than circumcision and proclamation against speculation and interest ??

Why the focus on burqa and why to ban it only?

I am merely saying that the burqa is neither Islamic nor sightly. It is an unsightly garment that oppresses women, doesn't allow for good communication and brings an uncomfortable feeling in mixed gender company.

It is you who seem to be obsessed with preservation of the burqa.

Those "progressive" societies can go f*ck themselves

Talk to me from Quran and Hadees when you are talking about Islam

Using a swear word while also mentioning Quran ??

As for the Hadees works, I don't give much credibility to them except what I can understand from them based on logic, rationality and Nature-given intellect. From my own thread from 2016 ( an article by Nadeem Paracha ), some history from South Asia :

Building upon the initial thoughts of Sindhi and Sihwarwl were perhaps South Asia’s two most ardent and articulate supporters and theoreticians of Islamic Socilaism: Ghulam Ahmed Parvez and Dr. Khalifa Abdul Hakim.

Parvez was a prominent ‘Quranist’, or an Islamic scholar who insisted that for the Muslims to make progress in the modern world, Islamic thought and laws should be entirely based on the modern interpretations of the Qu’ran and on the complete rejection of the hadith (sayings of the Prophet and his companions based on hearsay and compiled over a 100 years after the Prophet’s demise).

After studying traditional Muslim texts, as well as Sufism, Parvez claimed that almost all hadiths were fabrications by those who wanted Islam to seem like an intolerant faith and by ancient Muslim kings who used these hadiths to give divine legitimacy to their tyrannical rules.

Parvez also insisted that Muslims should spend more time studying the modern sciences instead of wasting their energies on fighting out ancient sectarian conflicts or ignoring the true egalitarian and enlightening spirit of the Qu’ran by indulging in multiple rituals handed down to them by ancient ulema, clerics and compilers of the hadith.

Understandably, Parvez was right away attacked by conservative Islamic scholars and political outfits.

But this didn’t stop famous Muslim philosopher and poet, Muhammad Iqbal, to befriend the young scholar and then introduce him to the future founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Those who want to ban burqa share the same perception about burqa as NATO countries. Both want to ban burqa

So what should I say about that?

The citizens in NATO countries certainly want the burqa banned but their governments ( and the NATO alliance ) support those in Muslim-majority countries who want to re-introduce or preserve the burqa.

You are. You hate muslims for what they wear and look

That is classic Islamophobia

I am a burqaphobe and mullahphobe.

So a despotic ruler giving speech to his supporters is somehow a proof for me about something that is related to Islam

Are you crazy or what man? How many times I have to tell you?

These Nassers and Qaddafis are nobody. They are dead.

Here in India many years ago, I used to attend a computer institute. One of my batch mates was a Muslim named Jamal Abdul Nasser. His parents named him after the Egyptian leader which means that Nasser ( the leader ) influenced people ( including Muslims ) across the world. I don't think any sensible parents now would name their son Saad after the name of the Indian TJ chief Maulana Saad.

And this is a Guardian report about what the legendary Venezuelan revolutionary, now jailed, Carlos ( the jackal ) said about Gaddafi :

In an emotional finale, he read a text in memory of Muammar Gaddafi, a sort of ideological brother who funded anti-Western attacks."This man did more than all the revolutionaries," Carlos said, sobs choking his voice as he ended the monologue by saying "long live the revolution!"

" Progressive Afghan government" that used to torture its people and commit mass human rights violations?

.There are thousand of Afghans whose loved ones are missing even today after getting abducted by your beloved "progressive Afghan governments"

KHAAD that used to massacre and torture its own people is still a taboo in Afghan society. People hate it for its crimes

Don't you have any shame supporting such criminals?

Would you then also believe in stories of Saddam's acid tanks for dipping prisoners in ?? Would you then believe in NATO's stories of Libyan forces massacring "civilians, including women and children". Or Libyan army being supplied with Viagra to rape women ??

Do you really believe in that Rambo film set in Afghanistan ??

These Afghan "abductees" you speak of, can they just be interesting to KHAD because of some connection to the CIA-ISI supported so-called Mujahideen ??

They have defeated the USA and NATO forces. You can add all the ifs and buts to that but the bottom line is that they are victorious

You sound like a crooked lawyer who uses literalist readings of Law to win judgements.

So I repeat. The Taliban was a co-creation of the CIA and ISI. And the NATO is fighting a half-hearted battle in Afghanistan. There was a recent thread about some "special forces unit" of the Afghan Taliban. With photos of the fighters posing and training among buildings and on open snow and ground. Do you really think NATO Intelligence wouldn't know about this ??

There are millions today who follow Quran and Sunnah and don't have anything to do with Al Qaida or ISIS

But Al Qaeda says it follows Islam. You should go talk to them.

I don't care what someone thinks about Bashar. He is a mass murderer who has blood of hundreds of thousands of innocent muslims on his hands

I pray he die a painful death

Prayers are mainly for comforting oneself and giving hope but also for keeping faith. If prayers worked against others we wouldn't need wars. Think about that.

Half of the syrian population is displaced and the whole country is destroyed and you think Syrians stick with that scumbag murderer

Was this population displaced before 2011 ?? And the Syrian Army and the Syrian Air force - do they comprise of foreigners just like how Assad's opponents are ??

Ijtihad refers to the rational thinking with the aid of Quran and hadith(s) i.e. a Jurist apply his mental faculty consulting the Quran to arrive at a solution to the case at hand.

You will be interested in my mentioning above of Ghulam Ahmed Parvez who was a Quranist.

Can you please explain what you mean by "approved muslim".

Means the Muslim currently promoted as ideal or real by the Establishment and media. In case of Pakistan it would not be those like Faiz or the late Mashal Khan. In India it would be those like Maulana Saad, the chief of the Indian TJ.

I am from Tablighi jamaat. I am not sure how you reached that conclusion, but Tableeghi jamat is full of Doctors, Engineers, Scientists, Software Engineers and other educated class.

I know that. I find the same in India. But are the really educated in the real sense ?? What is their contribution to science and technology despite being in a club where they can find many people from a particular field, say computing ?? Tomorrow you go to your ameer and get him to form a team in the computing field that will begin design of an operating system and a microprocessor which are the most fundamental software and hardware units respectively of a computer without which the computer ( cell phone, laptop etc ) will not run. There are very few operating systems and microprocessors in the world. Let the TJ in Pakistan come out with a radically new OS and microprocessor for the world.

In the first sehroza that we spend in the tableeghi jamat (or the first few days of a chilla), we learn that all muslims are our brothers and we are restricted and warned from calling anyone kafir. As our elders taught:
"If you find a reason to call someone a kafir, try to find 99 reasons to not call him a kafir and if you can find 1, then he is not a kafir".

Oh I didn't get bothered by Areesh calling me a non-Muslim in another thread. I could have called him the same but forum rules prevent me. I just told him that his ideas were the same as those Muslims cultivated by the CIA for the benefit of Western neo-Crusader governments.

Only prayer? no.
Do we focus on prayer? yes.
Why? Q k ham chahte hain k ap jannat main jain. Allah ne apko aqalmand insan banaya hai, aur bht ilm aur qabiliat ata keri hai. Is se apko dunya main kamyabi milegi, InshaALLAH. Ap hamare bhai hain, ham chahte hn apki akhirat b achi ho. Aur namaz us ka bunyadi rasta hai, sabse pehle namaz k barey me sawal hoga. Ktna acha hoga ALLAH apko yahan b izzat de aur akhirat main b.

I am copying below text from a previous reply of mine :

Prayer, ritual ( like fasting ) and dress-code ( in South Asia ) are not the only things that define Islam. Please do a forum search for my posts about the Islamic laws for wedding. I posted that just to say that there is an entire socio-economic side to Islam without which Islam would become just like say Brahmin beliefs.

bura nhn maniega, lekin muje jamahir bhai main bht kher nazar arahi hai. in k views alag hain, lekin yeh Musalmano ka bhala hi chahte hn.

Thank you.

In ko na burqe se taklif hai

Please read my above reply on this to Areesh with reference from Quran.

inko dukh yeh hai k Islam ki dominance nhn hai

That is one of the things, yes.

Inki khuwahish yeh hai k ham yeh sab chor ker science aur technology wagera per apna dhiyan laga den

"Sab chodd kar"... well, I don't mind someone praying or fasting but that should be not the only thing that should define a Muslim. As I quoted above. And yes, you are correct that science and technology should be the most important thing. There are so many ( 50 ?? ) Muslim-majority countries in the world. Why haven't they been able to become a space power after USSR / Russia, USA and now China ?? Where is the Muslim space station floating 400 kms above Earth ??

Lastly, please read the Nadeem Paracha thread I linked above.

 

[Areesh]

So what if they are bodily dead ?? Their ideas, works and legacy is not dead.

There ideas and works are more dead than ever. Except a nobody confused individual like you nobody has this fetish with them

Or do you prefer accepting the ideas of any nonsense person just because he or she is alive ??

Just telling you that those nobodies are dead. Move beyond them. They are a nobody in Islam and even in this world

Going by your logic you should not be believing in Islam because the Messenger of Islam is dead.

Spoken like a true kafir

Prophet Mohammad (SAWW) message is alive in the form of Quran and Ahadeeth and here to stay till the end

Shame on you for comparing these nobodies to Prophet Mohammad (SAWW)

What are you thoughts on the Pakistani dog breed Bully Kutta ??

More loyal and useful than you???

I have every right doing so. I see myself contributing to positive guidance of the Indian Muslims in a few years.

There is an imminent threat of genocide and mass murder on Indian muslims and instead of fighting for their survival you are busy lecturing people on what they should wear and how they should look

House Negro? Kafir? A confiused moron?

Make your pick

Covering up is not the same as wearing the extra, oppressive cloak called the burqa. The normal clothes are sufficient.

First of all it isn't oppressive. Control the Islamophobe in you

It quotes the Quran

It simply misinterprets the Quran. No where in Quran it says that Burqa shouldn't be worn. Show me if you have any Ayat about it

The part you have posted is just interpretation by some people of some ayats

Covering of face of women is proven from both Quran and Hadeeth

You can read more about it here

You should stop listening to misguided people like Tariq Jameel who have anti-intellectual, regressive, non-scientific and non-Islamic ideas.

So a confused nobody like you who I doubt can't recite even one chapter of Quran properly is calling a scholar known globally misguided

Move on body. A confused nobody who doesn't have any idea what he is or what he is following shouldn't be telling others about Islam and its scholars

To reply to the red text first, Gaddafi was the imam of all Muslims, according to me and a few others. His understanding of Islam was different and evolved than your Tariq Jameel types.

Gaddafi an imam of Muslims????

@PakSword abay kia nafsiati pagal admi hai yeh???

For him a nobody like Gaddafi is an imam of Muslims

As for the woman in question, Amna Nosseir, she is a former professor of philosophy in Al-Azhar University, Cairo, which is a place sought by many Muslim authorities for fatwas in many matters. Would that be okay for you ??

She is a nobody even if she teaches at Al Azhar university. She is a professor of philosophy. Should stick to her field instead of going into areas where she has no knowledge

Which things other than circumcision and proclamation against speculation and interest ??

So you won't be doing circumcision in your family from now??

There are several others not covered in these videos

I am merely saying that the burqa is neither Islamic nor sightly. It is an unsightly garment that oppresses women, doesn't allow for good communication and brings an uncomfortable feeling in mixed gender company.

It is the Islamophobe in you who thinks that it is oppressive.

You might be a pervert who wanted to check face of every lady in the street but not every lady is comfortable with that and you would have to live with it

It is you who seem to be obsessed with preservation of the burqa.

You brought burqa in this thread not me. I am just questioning your Islamophobia with it

Using a swear word while also mentioning Quran ??

Better than trying to change meaning of Quran and trying to twist and change Islam as per own liking like you

As for the Hadees works, I don't give much credibility to them except what I can understand from them based on logic, rationality and Nature-given intellect

Yeah you want to change Islam as per your own comfort. I have said that already

From my own thread from 2016 ( an article by Nadeem Paracha ), some history from South Asia :

Thanks for bringing two more nobodies to us. Nobody cares about them

The citizens in NATO countries certainly want the burqa banned but their governments ( and the NATO alliance ) support those in Muslim-majority countries who want to re-introduce or preserve the burqa.

It is the NATO governments who are banning headscarf or burqa and they and you share the same ideas. Congratz islamophobe

As for Muslim countries. They are doing what they want to. They don't need support for that from NATO or a nobody like you

I am a burqaphobe and mullahphobe.

You are an islamophobe

Simple

Here in India many years ago, I used to attend a computer institute. One of my batch mates was a Muslim named Jamal Abdul Nasser. His parents named him after the Egyptian leader which means that Nasser ( the leader ) influenced people ( including Muslims ) across the world. I don't think any sensible parents now would name their son Saad after the name of the Indian TJ chief Maulana Saad.

For every Jamal Abdul Nasser there are 10 saad in this world

And people don't name their son "saad" after Maulana Saad of TJ. They name them Saad after a companion of Prophet Muhammad (SAWW)

Since you don't know anything about Islam so obviously you might not know it but that is the truth. Even Maulana Saad parents named him after that Companion. It is a beautiful name

And this is a Guardian report about what the legendary Venezuelan revolutionary, now jailed, Carlos ( the jackal ) said about Gaddafi :

Not interested seriously. One nobody talking about another nobody

Would you then also believe in stories of Saddam's acid tanks for dipping prisoners in ?? Would you then believe in NATO's stories of Libyan forces massacring "civilians, including women and children". Or Libyan army being supplied with Viagra to rape women ??

Saddam has committed many crimes against his opponents. This is all documented and are a fact. You want to deny it? Go ahead. Another leaf to your delusions

These Afghan "abductees" you speak of, can they just be interesting to KHAD because of some connection to the CIA-ISI supported so-called Mujahideen ??

There are thousand and thousand of Afghans today who are missing their loved ones and haven't seen them since KHAAD abducted them

It is all present in the history and documented. Why don't you go and research about crimes of your favorite "progressive" governments instead of obsessing about dead people like Qaddafi and Nasser

So I repeat. The Taliban was a co-creation of the CIA and ISI. And the NATO is fighting a half-hearted battle in Afghanistan. There was a recent thread about some "special forces unit" of the Afghan Taliban. With photos of the fighters posing and training among buildings and on open snow and ground. Do you really think NATO Intelligence wouldn't know about this ??

They are fighting a half heartened battle today because they have realized they can't win it. This realization is the reason that NATO has given up on the idea of fighting Taliban. Taliban has earned this halfheartedness with their steadfast struggle and fight against NATO

But Al Qaeda says it follows Islam. You should go talk to them.

Even better. WE have fought them and defeated them. And none of us are confused about Islam or our ideology like you

Prayers are mainly for comforting oneself and giving hope but also for keeping faith. If prayers worked against others we wouldn't need wars. Think about that.

Islam teaches us that prayers do work against others too particularly oppressors like Bashar ul Asad. But then you are not a Muslim so it is useless explaining it to you

Was this population displaced before 2011 ?? And the Syrian Army and the Syrian Air force - do they comprise of foreigners just like how Assad's opponents are ??

Those population was displaced when you hero went all oppressive against people of his country and killed them en masse. Syrian army and airforce are just tools of an oppressor. They are fighting people of Syria along with support of foreigners from Iran and Russia

bura nhn maniega, lekin muje jamahir bhai main bht kher nazar arahi hai. in k views alag hain, lekin yeh Musalmano ka bhala hi chahte hn. In ko na burqe se taklif hai, na darhi se, inko dukh yeh hai k Islam ki dominance nhn hai, jis ki waja woh Musalmano ki personal choice ko samaj rahe hn. Inki khuwahish yeh hai k ham yeh sab chor ker science aur technology wagera per apna dhiyan laga den. Inko lagta hai k ager west wala model apna lenge to ham b successful hojainge.

Bat to sahi nhn hai, lekin inki niyat nek hai, inko kafir nhn kahen yeh hamare bhai hain. ALLAH ne inko aqal aur samaj ata keri hai, zara sochen yeh is tarhan Islam k haq main bolna shuru kerden to ktna acha hga...



Kahan se le atey hain ap log yeh baten. Ijtehad ko koi b obsolete nhn samajta.



Q k fatwa usoolon aur Quran aur ahadees ko samne rakh ker dia jata hai is lie Taqleed keri jati hai. Jab b koi Taqleedi fesla dia jata hai to usko dekha jata hai k yeh sahi usoolon per bana hai ya nhn. Usool timeless hotey hain. is lie yeh pata lagana asan hojata hai k fesla political pressure/culture influence ki waja se dia tha ya nhn. Aur koi b taqleedi fesla us wqt tak qubool hi nhn hota jab tak ulema ki aksariat unko sahi na qarar dede.

It is a very rigorous process. Most of the Taqleedi decisions that are still followed to this date even after hundreds of years have simply stood the test of the time.

He is a fitna. An enemy to Islam bigger than RSS sanghi. An enemy to muslims of India

Stay clear of him

 

[PakSword]

@PakSword abay kia nafsiati pagal admi hai yeh???

Bhai, jab se iss ne mujhay bataya hai ke Allah is nature (nauzubillah) and Angels/ Jinns don't exist, I don't waste my time on him.

He is confused to the core. I suspect he is one of those sanghis who hide behind false identities to confuse others but then end up getting confused themselves.

 

[El Sidd]

Religious discussions are not allowed on the forum.

I know that the demagogue confuses you but rules are rules.

Areesh will get banned. Jamahir will not be.

 

[Areesh]

Bhai, jab se iss ne mujhay bataya hai ke Allah is nature (nauzubillah) and Angels/ Jinns don't exist, I don't waste my time on him.

He is confused to the core. I suspect he is one of those sanghis who hide behind false identities to confuse others but then end up getting confused themselves.

Yeah i knew about that from him

But calling a nobody like Qaddafi as "imam of Muslims" is something that i didn't expect even from this idiot

 

[PakSword]

Yeah i knew about that from him

But calling a nobody like Qaddafi as "imam of Muslims" is something that i didn't expect even from this idiot

Maybe Imam of enlightened Muslims.

 

[Areesh]

Maybe Imam of enlightened Muslims.

Never heard about it

Might be a new firqa

 

[Naofumi]

Never heard about it

Might be a new firqa

Never heard too, I always thought Gaddafi is considered a despot by everyone except those who had vested interests in his government.

 

[jamahir]

More loyal and useful than you???

I had asked that question because I knew your types would have no problems with dogs. You claim to know lot about Islam and Sunnat but don't know the respect that the first Muslims had for cats and contempt for dogs. You are the type who on your way to the mosque, would pass by a cat being attacked by five dogs and not do anything to help the cat, you being ignorant of the fondness that Messenger Muhammad had for cats and would not have ever wanted his cat Muezza to be so killed. You would pass by because you had to be at your "pious" prayer session.

I have seen your types here.

You are a Muslim because you were born into a Muslim family. You don't know the philosophy of Islam. You are an irrational person. An embarrassment to Islam. Like I said earlier if you would have been present in the Golden Age you would have joined some Taliban types in assassinating those philosophers, engineers and medicine men. The picture in post# 2 describes you very well.

From now on, don't speak for Muslims in any post. You can discuss Pakistani political affairs. CIA agent.

Bhai, jab se iss ne mujhay bataya hai ke Allah is nature (nauzubillah) and Angels/ Jinns don't exist, I don't waste my time on him.

So get some jinns to defeat the extremist elements in Pakistan. I won't say beyond that.

And if you find time from replying to brainwashed idiots and non-intellectuals like @Areesh, read this Nadeem Paracha article I posted in 2016. It speaks of activism by better Muslims than Areesh or which ever misguided "leaders" he follows.

He is confused to the core. I suspect he is one of those sanghis who hide behind false identities to confuse others but then end up getting confused themselves.

Have you ever read my exchanges here with Sanghis ?? You are a TTA, so think.

Never heard too, I always thought Gaddafi is considered a despot by everyone except those who had vested interests in his government.

Read this post of mine from some days ago about a pre-2011 Libyan organization called WICS ( World Islamic Call Society ). It will give you clue about the world-level Islamic activism of Gaddafi and Libya then.

About despot, why is it that every leader who stands up to the Western governments gets called despot or in the wording of Hindi news channels - tanashah ??

Search for photos of Gaddafi with Fidel Castro, Mandela and Hugo Chavez. All despots is it ??

Religious discussions are not allowed on the forum.

I know that the demagogue confuses you but rules are rules.

I agree that religious discussions should not be allowed.

Areesh will get banned. Jamahir will not be.

I don't know. All I have seen for years is Areesh consistently posting messages that are hateful, trollish, immature, snarky and cruel, especially and unnecessarily against India. He has no intellectual depth.

 

[PakSword]

So get some jinns to defeat the extremist elements in Pakistan. I won't say beyond that.

And if you find time from replying to brainwashed idiots and non-intellectuals like @Areesh, read this Nadeem Paracha article I posted in 2016. It speaks of activism by better Muslims than Areesh or which ever misguided "leaders" he follows.

For us Muslims, a denial of a single Ayah of Quran throws us out of the fold of Islam. Here we are discussing a creature on which whole surah was revealed.

There's another misconception about jinns in your mind... that they help Muslims out of their free will. It's also wrong if you try to communicate with them or ask help from them. Prophet PBUH never asked any jinn for help in any of the ghazwa he fought. And I have not heard of any companion doing that even. They are a different type of creation, who will be judged alongside humans on the day of judgement.

And angels too, they are also a creation but they don't have free will. They will not be judged. They only do something when they are asked to do by Allah swt.

Man, even if you are a Muslim, you have extremely shallow knowledge of Islam. That's why I told you earlier to not indulge in these discussions with Muslims.

If you really have to understand Islam, rather than spreading your new philosophy on this forum, go join some religious forum and ask your questions there. You will be shown the right path and then it will be on you to decide. On that forum, they will not debate you on jinns or angels, they will first understand your concept of Allah swt. And I also think that you need to start from Alif Bay Tay Thay.. rather than discussing more advanced concepts that are above your understanding.

Please do not throw your litter on this defence cum political forum, I am requesting you one last time. Or I will be forced to report your posts and give negative ratings. Just stay away from these topics. Many thanks.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

@Areesh @PakSword @jamahir Let us back away from this Takfir on each other, dear brothers.

Yes, @jamahir has some unorthodox views, which he states openly and believes in fervently. It is his perogative. In sha Allah, Allah swt will show him the light but he is still a Muslim who accepts Shahadah and has spoken out against BJP and Hindu radicals.

@jamahir I request you not to tarnish the name of Maulana Tariq Jameel, pls. You may not agree, but he is held close to many Pakistanis, as he is a strong PTI supporter and speaks wonderfully in his traditional Seraiki language, and also Punjabi, which has reached hearts of many Pakistanis.

 

[jamahir]

@Areesh @PakSword @jamahir Let us back away from this Takfir on each other, dear brothers.

Yes, @jamahir has some unorthodox views, which he states openly and believes in fervently. It is his perogative. In sha Allah, Allah swt will show him the light but he is still a Muslim who accepts Shahadah and has spoken out against BJP and Hindu radicals.

@jamahir I request you not to tarnish the name of Maulana Tariq Jameel, pls. You may not agree, but he is held close to many Pakistanis, as he is a strong PTI supporter and speaks wonderfully in his traditional Seraiki language, and also Punjabi, which has reached hearts of many Pakistanis.

Bhai, you say the truth in the second paragraph in your post. Thanks for the support.

And I accept your request in the third para.

 

[PakSword]

@Areesh @PakSword @jamahir Let us back away from this Takfir on each other, dear brothers.

Yes, @jamahir has some unorthodox views, which he states openly and believes in fervently. It is his perogative. In sha Allah, Allah swt will show him the light but he is still a Muslim who accepts Shahadah and has spoken out against BJP and Hindu radicals.

@jamahir I request you not to tarnish the name of Maulana Tariq Jameel, pls. You may not agree, but he is held close to many Pakistanis, as he is a strong PTI supporter and speaks wonderfully in his traditional Seraiki language, and also Punjabi, which has reached hearts of many Pakistanis.

I am not calling him a kafir, but I am suspecting his identity.

I don't mind if he says that Allah is just nature, and angels and jinns don't exist.. I accepted his view point in one of the threads and he knows that.. but if someone with these concepts start criticizing Muslims who are trying to follow Prophet PBUH, I have a problem.

 

[famoj47521]

Prayers are mainly for comforting oneself and giving hope but also for keeping faith. If prayers worked against others we wouldn't need wars. Think about that.

They go together. You gotta work hard when you pray. The philosophy of prayer is everything is in control of ALLAH. And we can only try to achieve something with hard-work, but success will only be granted by ALLAH.

Means the Muslim currently promoted as ideal or real by the Establishment and media. In case of Pakistan it would not be those like Faiz or the late Mashal Khan. In India it would be those like Maulana Saad, the chief of the Indian TJ.

Never been to India, I dont know who Faiz or Mashal Khan are. Our ideals are Saleh, Shohda, Siddiqeen and Ambia (A.S). So yes, we respect Muttaqaeen.

I know that. I find the same in India. But are the really educated in the real sense ?? What is their contribution to science and technology despite being in a club where they can find many people from a particular field, say computing ? Tomorrow you go to your ameer and get him to form a team in the computing field that will begin design of an operating system and a microprocessor which are the most fundamental software and hardware units respectively of a computer without which the computer ( cell phone, laptop etc ) will not run. There are very few operating systems and microprocessors in the world. Let the TJ in Pakistan come out with a radically new OS and microprocessor for the world.

Lets rephrase your question: "Ager Tableegh main itne sarey field k log jama hain to woh kuch banate q nhn hain".
Ap pehle insaan nhn hain jisne yeh shikayat keri hai. Yahan per Pakistan main hamen yeh tana milta hai k ap log apni siyasi jamat q nhn banate. Islami qanoon ki nafiz nhn krwadete, wagera wagera.

Iska jawab bht asaan hai. Tablighi jamat sirf aik maqsad k lie banai gai thi. Aur woh tha logon ko Islam per lana. Hamare akabir ne 100 saal pehle Tablighi jamat shuru keri thi. Us wqt koi hamen janta b nhn tha, aur log kehte they tumhara koi kirdar nhn hoga. Tum log kabhi kamyab nhn hogey. Lekin hamare akabir aur tableeghi bhaion ne is maqsad per musalsal mehnat keri rakhe, abhi takriban 100 saal k bad aam logon ko is k barey main pata chalna shuru hua hai, aur puri dunya main tablighi jamaten hain. Werna pehle janta hi kon tha tableeghi jamat ko. Ager hamne is kaam ko "mukammal" samaj ker kisi aur kaam per dhiyan laga dia to yeh kaam ruk jaega. Tableeghi Jamat ki policy hai. K Jamat Tableegh k ilawa kisi aur kam per dhiyan nhn degi.

Isi lie hamara na koi siyasi wing hai, na koi military wing hai, na koi scienci wing hai.

Baki jo ap bat keh rahe hn. Main software engineer hn. Mere Ameer b software engineer hn aur hamare sathi b software engineer wagera hain, ham log tableeghi jamat ki waja se hi milen hain. Ham log apne ban per koshishon me lage hue hn k apni ki technology banain. Lekin woh Jamaat k name se nhn hogi, Tableeghi jamat ki policy k khilaf hai. Wese OS aur Microchip banana itna asan kaam nhn hai. OS to phr ban jata hai, lekin usko market aur sell krna? bht mushkil hai, ap sochen US ki companies apne new OS nhn banatin. Microchip k lie barhi mehngi factory lagani parhti hai, barhi research lag jati hai is main, hamare pass itne wasail nhn hain.

Oh I didn't get bothered by Areesh calling me a non-Muslim in another thread. I could have called him the same but forum rules prevent me. I just told him that his ideas were the same as those Muslims cultivated by the CIA for the benefit of Western neo-Crusader governments.

Achi bat hai, lekin yeh neo-crusader k chakkar main kiun parh rahe hn ap. Islam barha asan aur straightforward mazhab hai. Direct Quran, Tafseer aur Fiqh parhen. Samaj ajaega.

I am copying below text from a previous reply of mine :

Prayer, ritual ( like fasting ) and dress-code ( in South Asia ) are not the only things that define Islam. Please do a forum search for my posts about the Islamic laws for wedding. I posted that just to say that there is an entire socio-economic side to Islam without which Islam would become just like say Brahmin beliefs.

Ap b mera jawab parh li jie pichle posts main. Islam har chiz ki guidance deta hai. ALLAH ne hamen kisi b mamle main bagair hidayat k nhn chora hai. Ja woh politics ho, social policies hon, war ho, foreign relations hn, wagera wagera. Lekin ham aik field ko pakarne k lie dusre ko nhn chor sakte. Namaz to bunyad hai. Kafir aur Musalman main namaz ka hi to fark hai.

Thank you.

Welcome

Please read my above reply on this to Areesh with reference from Quran.

Ap kiun is chakkar main parh gai. Koi burqah krti hai ya nhn krti hai, ap choren in baton ko. Apni energy musalmano ki taraqqi main kharch keren. Yeh fiqhi masail hain. Inko Fuqah per chor di jie. Yeh to 1400 saal se chal rahe hn, chalte rahenge. Daq guzar ka mamla keren.

"Sab chodd kar"... well, I don't mind someone praying or fasting but that should be not the only thing that should define a Muslim. As I quoted above. And yes, you are correct that science and technology should be the most important thing. There are so many ( 50 ?? ) Muslim-majority countries in the world. Why haven't they been able to become a space power after USSR / Russia, USA and now China ?? Where is the Muslim space station floating 400 kms above Earth ??

Yehi to rona hai hamara b. Pichle 100 salon main berha garak hogaya hai hamara bhi. Ham ne nationality ki bunyad per mulk bana lie aur taqseem hogai, phr fiqh aur firqey k chakkar main mazeed tafreek hogai. Ab hamen nishana banana asan hogaya hai. Isi lie ham chahte hain k Musalman nationality ban ker nhn Muslim ban ker sochen, aik dusre k kaam ain. Isi lie Tablighi jamat kisi firqe kisi fiqh ko kafir nhn kehti. Hamen Takfir aur Firqe per behas mana hai. Ham chahte hain log muttahid hn aur sath mil ker kaam keren.

Bhai apse aik guzarish hai. Nabi S.A.W k barey main galat alfaz istemal nhn keren. Woh hamare Nabi hain. Muje pata hai apne galat irade se nhn kaha, lekin hamare jazbaat hain, unka khayal keren.

He is a fitna. An enemy to Islam bigger than RSS sanghi. An enemy to muslims of India

Stay clear of him

Bhai ap meri zuban se shayad muje koi sidha sadha bhola bhala bewakuf sa insan samaj rahe hain.
Main software engineer hn aur buisness man hn. Mera Karachi main office hai aur Middle East, US, Europe wagera main clients hain. Main roman urdu is lie likh raha hn q k meri urdu itni eloquent nhn hai jtni apki hai. Main english main apni bat wese convey nhn kr sakta jese urdu main convey kr sakta hn.

Baki mene inki dusri posts parhi hain. Muje us k bad b Jamahir bhai se kher ki umeed hai. Ham log tableegh per jatey hain, galian khate hain, phattar khate hain, ktne log hamare shaheed hogai is waja se. Hamari jamaten jungle k janglion ko, jo kapre b nhn pehnte, pattey band te hain, unko Musalman bana ker ajati hain. Halan k woh log to insaan ko chaba ker kha jate hn. Hamne bht barhey barhey shetan dekhe hain.

Jamahir bhai main bht kher hai.

Ap pakke musalman hain, aur apko hidayat mil gai hai. Ap nhn chahte dusre insano ko b hidayat mil jae. Ap na umeed nhn hon.

Muje pura yaqeen hai k yeh apki tarhan haq dhundne nikle they lekin raste main kisi waja se raah thori badal gai. Jab k ap nhn bhatke. Hamen sirf inko sahi raah per lagane ki zarurat hai, yeh b hamari tarhan hojainge.

Ap nhn chahte k PDF per 2 areesh hn? main to chahta hn.

This part is debatable, consider Imrana case; the initial fatwa from Deoband was later refuted by Yusuf al-Qaradawi on the grounds of Ijtehad.

To phr baat hi khatam hojati haina. Yeh q keh rahe hain k Ijtehad obsolete hogaya hai.
Dono chizen hain, ab b wese hi chal rahi hain jese pehle chal rahi thin.

 

[jamahir]

Bhai apse aik guzarish hai. Nabi S.A.W k barey main galat alfaz istemal nhn keren. Woh hamare Nabi hain. Muje pata hai apne galat irade se nhn kaha, lekin hamare jazbaat hain, unka khayal keren.

I never did that. You misunderstood.

But I agree to many of your other points.

But yes, I will stop talking about religion and theology. It simply brings quarrels and differences between members.s