Islamic Eschatology - Strategic importance!

[I.R.A]

When the Messiah (PBUH) returns he will correct the incorrect views of his followers and they will then accept the Seal ﷺ and the Quran as a True Messenger and a True Book.

ALLAH doesn't play favoritism. Blind belief for everyone or everyone should be given the opportunity to see Essa Peace be upon him with his / her own eyes and convert.

 

[litman]

@litman I know this sheikh personally as he used to come to my masjid to give speeches from time to time. He was still tied to Tanzeem e Islami and Dr. Israr Ahmad (RA) at the time, and moderated his thinking quite a bit. When he left and became independent, he veered way off course.

I used to follow him for many years being quite interested with his lectures and books on Dajjal and Riba, but when he criticized the Pakistani army, that was enough. He did so around 2007~ when we were facing the brutality of TTP in full force.

Now recently he turned his ire against Turkey and especially Erdogan. Spouting venom and indecency against them. At the same time appeasing the Orthodox Christian community in Russia which is known to be Islamophobic, especially in their eschewed view of history vis-à-vis Turks and Persians.

View attachment 496277

Tsarist Russian Orthodox Crosses in Moscow signifying the supremacy of Christianity over the Islamic Crescent, celebrating Russian victory of the Kazan of the Tatar Khanate

he is simply crossing the limits to take favors of orthodox christians. it seems he has more hopes from them rather then Allah almighty. he is even belittling islam in front of christianity. as far as blaming pak army is concerned we have to admit we made mistakes in past. it was not only him but many other scholars who spoke against supporting US. and we all have seen the results. US used us again and has thrown us in waste bin. we need to stand on our feet on the basis of islamic principles.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

as far as blaming pak army is concerned we have to admit we made mistakes in past. it was not only him but many other scholars who spoke against supporting US. and we all have seen the results. US used us again and has thrown us in waste bin. we need to stand on our feet on the basis of islamic principles.

I agree with what you wrote.

He went even farther saying that Pakistani soldiers who die fighting TTP won’t go to Jannat. This is too much.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

@litman I know this sheikh personally as he used to come to my masjid to give speeches from time to time. He was still tied to Tanzeem e Islami and Dr. Israr Ahmad (RA) at the time, and moderated his thinking quite a bit. When he left and became independent, he veered way off course.

I used to follow him for many years being quite interested with his lectures and books on Dajjal and Riba, but when he criticized the Pakistani army, that was enough. He did so around 2007~ when we were facing the brutality of TTP in full force.

Now recently he turned his ire against Turkey and especially Erdogan. Spouting venom and indecency against them. At the same time appeasing the Orthodox Christian community in Russia which is known to be Islamophobic, especially in their eschewed view of history vis-à-vis Turks and Persians.

View attachment 496277

Tsarist Russian Orthodox Crosses in Moscow signifying the supremacy of Christianity over the Islamic Crescent, celebrating Russian victory in Kazan, capital of the Tatar Khanate

The last picture boils my blood.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

The last picture boils my blood.

You should also read about the 1864 Circassian Genocide commited by Tsarist Orthodox Russia in which 90% of the Circassian (Muslim Turks) were wiped out. The rest left alive barely made it to Turkey, dying of disease and starvation.

Famine Genocide of 1921-22 against Muslim Tatarstan which killed off 10% of their Population and subsequent settlement of Russians reduced Tatar population to 50% in their homeland.

Genocide and eviction of the Muslim Crimean Tatars in 1944 resulting in the deaths of 30% of their population.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

So Methodology is the most important thing to have when studying the Quran and Ahadith.

The Hadith or part of the Hadith about the betrayal between Rum and Muslims at the End Times is either in conflict with the Quran and therefore a fabrication OR the Rum spoken about in that Hadith is not the Rum of the Quran...so who is that Rum?

When the Messiah (PBUH) returns he will correct the incorrect views of his followers and they will then accept the Seal ﷺ and the Quran as a True Messenger and a True Book.

Another thing is do not accept his view until you are convinced.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan
@only information

What if the Hindus of our subcontinent don't accept His seal?

You should also read about the 1864 Circassian Genocide commited by Tsarist Orthodox Russia in which 90% of the Circassian (Muslim Turks) were wiped out. The rest left alive barely made it to Turkey, dying of disease and starvation.

View attachment 496294

Famine Genocide of 1921-22 against Muslim Tatarstan which killed off 10% of their Population and subsequent settlement of Russians reduced Tatar population to 50% in their homeland.

Genocide and eviction of the Muslim Crimean Tatars in 1944 resulting in the deaths of 30% of their population.

I guess the Turks tried to defend themselves against the Armenians at least.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I guess the Turks tried to defend themselves against the Armenians at least.

Armenian Nationalists became allies of Russia during the Russo-Turkish wars attacking the Turkish military and razing Turkish villages. Since Armenians resided in the length and breath of Turkey, they had to be resettled to avoid Civil War.

Greek nationalists also sided with Russia and took control of the western parts of Anatolia. Eventually populations were exchanged between the two after Greece lost the war and was expulsed.

The Turkish Independence war was bloody due to so many competing ethnic groups who sided with foreign powers while Turkey was still occupied following the Treaty of Lausanne.

 

[AfrazulMandal]

Armenian Nationalists became allies of Russia during the Russo-Turkish war attacking the Turkish military and razing Turkish villages. Since Armenians resided in the length and breath of Turkey, they had to be resettled to avoid Civil War.

Greek nationalists also sided with Russia and took control of the western parts of Anatolia. Eventually populations were exchanged between the two after Greece lost the war and was expulsed.

The Turkish Independence war was bloody due to so many competing ethnic groups who sided with foreign powers while Turkey was still occupied following the Treaty of Lausanne.

But still, Kemal did a lot of damage to Islam in Turkey.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

But still, Kemal did a lot of damage to Islam in Turkey.

Mustafa Kemal Pasha freed Turkey from foreign yoke, which is why he earned the title Gazi (Islamic holy warrior) among Turks and eventually Atatürk (father of Turks.)

History is not so black and white. He was not perfect, but did much for Islam and Turks as well. This includes the popularization of the Turkish translation of the Quran.

 

[litman]

I agree with what you wrote.

He went even farther saying that Pakistani soldiers who die fighting TTP won’t go to Jannat. This is too much.

WOT has been a tough war for pakistani nation and military. it was difficult to assess who was on the right path in the initial days. pak and US trained and armed the freedom fighters back in the eightees. after russian defeat US pulled back and put sanctions on pak but pak kept on supporting them in afghanistan. after 9/11 pak under US pressure turned sides against those freedom fighters who were trained with the spirit of jihad. they turned against us and US also secretly funded their leaders to fight against pakistan and to destabilize pak and then terrorist organizations started working against pak. the leaders of pak and the the terrorists were playing in the hands of US .they were getting paid and got authority till the time their boss remained satisfied with their performance. the U turn taken by pak under US pressure after 9/11 proved to be a big mistake. after swat operation things became clearer to the nation and they also saw the real face of "sharia" of TTP. actually US played with us from both sides. at one side they threatened pak to work for them against the terrorist and on the other hand they supported the terrorists to fight against pak military.
as far as who goes to paradise in the next world it is entirely in Allah's hands. i think we can get some guidance from a hadith of the Prophet about the dead of the muslim army who will fight against mehdi. the companions asked about the fate of those muslims who will die in fighting against mehdi. the Prophet replied that they will be raised according to their intent before the war. probably they will be misguided by their leaders and mullahs to fight against the mehdi otherwise no good muslim will wish to take up arms against mehdi. so in my opinion those who fight for getting worldly benefits will go to hell and those who were misguided by the wicked in the name of religion will enter paradise as they were thinking that they were fighting for the just cause. Allah knows best.
DEEP INSIDE THE HEART EVERY INDIVIDUAL REALLY KNOWS WELL FOR WHOM HE IS FIGHTING. FOR A FLAG, FOR A PIECE OF LAND, FOR PROVING HIMSELF BRAVE, FOR HIS TRIBE, FOR HIS NATION,FOR MORE WEALTH AND AUTHORITY OR FOR THE TRUTH.

The last picture boils my blood.

there is no need to get your blood boiled up. crescent is not a symbol of islam. islam has no such symbol.

 

[TMA]

Mustafa Kemal Pasha freed Turkey from foreign yoke, which is why he earned the title Gazi (Islamic holy warrior) among Turks and eventually Atatürk (father of Turks.)

History is not so black and white. He was not perfect, but did much for Islam and Turks as well. This includes the popularization of the Turkish translation of the Quran.

And he was so holy he abolished the caliphate....this is how sinister the Dajjal is. He is the great deceiver.

Again you all are going to history and not the Quran to criticise Sheikh Imran.

Use the Quran and ahadith to poke holes in his interpretation.
Don't come with historical oppression.
This does not trump the Quran and ahadith.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

And he was so holy he abolished the caliphate....this is how sinister the Dajjal is. He is the great deceiver.

Again you all are going to history and not the Quran to criticise Sheikh Imran.

Use the Quran and ahadith to poke holes in his interpretation.
Don't come with historical oppression.
This does not trump the Quran and ahadith.

My brother, we have different views about this.

I believe that historical incidents are just as important in our holistic view of our religion and where we stand in the world.

Equally important are the ulema, especially the great thinkers of our time like Maulana Rumi, Bedi uz Zaman Said Nursi, Mehmet Akif Ersoy, Allama Muhammad Iqbal.

 

[TMA]

ridiculous statements by shiekh imran in various lectures
1. muslims should join russian army
2. putin is zulqarnain.
3. islam will be having a supporting role in end times
4. islam wont be the ruling religion towards the end of the world.
his latest lecture is pure non sense. i once listened his talk with his friend saker who openly said that the orthodox christians have fundamental areas of disagreements with islam and he openly admitted them whether we like it or not. this shiekh on the other hand tries his best to change his religion to please the christians. shame on you shiekh. try to please Allah and not orthodox christians.

the scholars create so much confusion about the hadiths and ayats regarding end times. another scholar mr ghamdi totally rejects the second coming of hazrat Esa. he also refers to Quran. now this shiekh has come up with a different theory. i think we should follow what the majority of great scholars have said about such events as those scholars who always try to give a unique explanation to everything end up with something hilarious.
according to hadiths when jesus follows imam mehdin in prayer and breaks the cross it simply shows the end of christianity of all sorts. he will definitely make the christians realize that he is not the son of God so all the christians will have to obey his command. and when this happens the ayat of Quran will also become true which mentions that before his death all ahl e kitaab will have faith in him( hazrat Esa) and he will follow muslim imam in namaz and follow shariah of Prophet Muhammd SAW and as faiths of all prophets is islam then islam will be the only true religion. there cant be two true religions at the end times and Allah knows best.

one thing which i have particularly observed in shiekh imran after following him for some years now that whenever he has a chrisitan gathering he speaks more illogically.

Listen carefully to his lectures.
Islam did not come for the first time with the Seal (PBUH).
It came way way before, of course the sharia were different at times but the religion that the Messiah (PBUH) was on is ISLAM and nothing but ISLAM.
It is sheikh Imran's view that when the Messiah(PBUH) returns he will correct the incorrect views of his current day followers and he will bring them to follow the older Sharia of Musa (PBUH).
It will the Ummah of the Messiah who will rule the world but the religion is still Islam...Just a different Ummah.

My question to him is how does he reconcile the fact that right now the followers of the Messiah commit shirk and do not accept the Seal (PBUH). Those who follow him when he returns and their corruption is corrected I can fully understand that they become Muslims but not of the Ummah of Muhammad (Seal).

But you are right his lectures raise a lot of questions.

But I think we ought to criticise him with a robust methodology as then he will open...using history against the quran is not very robust.

Also regarding Conquest of Constantinople
it is clear as daylight that this prophetic conquest is AFTER malhama. Therefore Turkey better get ready for this.
Turkey is part of NATO and until she leaves she is deceiving the Ummah all talk but no walk....remember the Dajjal is a master of deception...he will want a devout sincere Muslim leader to lead the masses astray...by ostensibly using Islam ...like how
Attaurk was elevated in front of the Turkish Masses by saving them only to plunge the fatal dagger into the Caliphate.

My brother, we have different views about this.

I believe that historical incidents are just as important in our holistic view of our religion and where we stand in the world.

Equally important are the ulema, especially the great thinkers of our time like Maulana Rumi, Bedi uz Zaman Said Nursi, Mehmet Akif Ersoy, Allama Muhammad Iqbal.

So you think history is equal to the Quran?
How do you reconcile this epistemic weighting as a Muslim. No doubt history has an important role but it is subject to the Quran and not the other way round.

Agree with you on the role of other scholars no doubt but can Iman Rumi answer you on why Israel came back into existence?
Can Imam Rumi answer why European colonialism did what it did? Regarding spirituality Sheik Imran is no match for Maulana Rumi or even Allama Iqbal but eschatology is different field that is only really coming into its own in this age...

But we have to evaluate the scholars on methodology. And I am sure many of them have the correct classic methodology but they did not live in this modern age save Iqbal or perhaps Imam Said Nursi and even these two greats died about 100 year ago.
We need current day scholarship with the calibre of the classics and the methodology of the classical scholars but being applied to the current day. .. in the words of another great scholar who died in 1974 "Dynamic Orthodoxy" is needed.

 

[litman]

It is sheikh Imran's view that when the Messiah(PBUH) returns he will correct the incorrect views of his current day followers and he will bring them to follow the older Sharia of Musa (PBUH).
It will the Ummah of the Messiah who will rule the world but the religion is still Islam...Just a different Ummah.

.

islam is the first and final religion and the shariah of Prophet Muhammad SAW is the final one till qayyamah. no other shariah will be acceptable now. a person who declares there is only one God and Muhammad is His messenger will qualify for glory in the next life. any addition, deletion or change of any kind to the above statement and forget about the next world. period. when Quran brought the shariah of Muhammad how can shariah of Musa PBUH will be acceptable now. it was abrogated and new shariah and now orders are in place now. as far as ummah is concerned the ummah of the Prophet Muhammad SAW is the most blessed. it is told at many places in Quran and hadiths. when hazrat Esa AS will come as the follower of Prophet Muhammad SAW and offer prayer after the muslim imam and later on take the muslims to victory then it means end of every other ummah. the ummah of Prophet Muhammad will prevail after the final battle between truth and falsehood. following imam mehdi in prayer is a huge symbol that Hazrat Esa himself will follow the shariah of Prophet Muhammad and breaking of cross means end of the false chrisitianity according to which Jesus was considered as son of God. the true christians will follow the man they were waiting and as their long awaited Messiah will himself follow Prophet Muhammad they will have to accept that there is one God and Muhammad is the messenger of God. and when they accept it they will become part of Ummah of Prophet Muhammad SAW.
another very illogical situation will appear if we say that it will be the ummah of messiah that will rule the world is that we have been told that ummah of the Prophet Muhammad is the most blessed one but at the end of the world at the time of final battle of truth and falsehood it will be some other ummah that will rule the world??????
Allah knows best.
as far as constantinople is concerned i know the hadith but right now it is in the hands of muslims. may be we lose it in some future battle and then recapture it. but by saying that as turkey is a nato member it is in the hands of enemies it is wrong approach in my opinion. for the most part of our history pak has remained nothing but a good US puppet rather we had the status of major non nato alliance of US. does it mean that the whole nation of pakistan is a bunch of non believers and pak is a zionist nation?

i have been following shiekh imran for some years now and i admire him for his thoughts and logics but yes i also admit sometimes specially when he addresses to christians he twists the entire escatology and history to support his ideology and this is his greatest weakness.

 

[TMA]

islam is the first and final religion and the shariah of Prophet Muhammad SAW is the final one till qayyamah. no other shariah will be acceptable now. a person who declares there is only one God and Muhammad is His messenger will qualify for glory in the next life. any addition, deletion or change of any kind to the above statement and forget about the next world. period. when Quran brought the shariah of Muhammad how can shariah of Musa PBUH will be acceptable now. it was abrogated and new shariah and now orders are in place now. as far as ummah is concerned the ummah of the Prophet Muhammad SAW is the most blessed. it is told at many places in Quran and hadiths. when hazrat Esa AS will come as the follower of Prophet Muhammad SAW and offer prayer after the muslim imam and later on take the muslims to victory then it means end of every other ummah. the ummah of Prophet Muhammad will prevail after the final battle between truth and falsehood. following imam mehdi in prayer is a huge symbol that Hazrat Esa himself will follow the shariah of Prophet Muhammad and breaking of cross means end of the false chrisitianity according to which Jesus was considered as son of God. the true christians will follow the man they were waiting and as their long awaited Messiah will himself follow Prophet Muhammad they will have to accept that there is one God and Muhammad is the messenger of God. and when they accept it they will become part of Ummah of Prophet Muhammad SAW.
another very illogical situation will appear if we say that it will be the ummah of messiah that will rule the world is that we have been told that ummah of the Prophet Muhammad is the most blessed one but at the end of the world at the time of final battle of truth and falsehood it will be some other ummah that will rule the world??????
Allah knows best.
as far as constantinople is concerned i know the hadith but right now it is in the hands of muslims. may be we lose it in some future battle and then recapture it. but by saying that as turkey is a nato member it is in the hands of enemies it is wrong approach in my opinion. for the most part of our history pak has remained nothing but a good US puppet rather we had the status of major non nato alliance of US. does it mean that the whole nation of pakistan is a bunch of non believers and pak is a zionist nation?

i have been following shiekh imran for some years now and i admire him for his thoughts and logics but yes i also admit sometimes specially when he addresses to christians he twists the entire escatology and history to support his ideology and this is his greatest weakness.

I know the hadith about The Messiah praying behind the Mehdi and I also interpret this as you have. However Sheik Imran intrepets this to mean that the Messiah refuses to become the leader of the Ummah of the Seal ﷺ as he is offered by the Mehdi to be the Imam. Although he still will pray behind the Mehdi in the way that the Seal ﷺ prayed.

The State of Pakistan has many times betrayed Islam....hopefully with Imran Khan she will make amends....I hope Turkey will make amends...but that is the prerogative of the Turks...of course he does not mean every single Turk or Pakistani is a zionist or non believer...surely you have been listening to him long enough to know this...have you listened to his explanation about christians and jews being allies of one another...?