Islamic Brotherhood, Ummah, common market, Khilafah

[Musalman]

There was a time when we as a Pakistanis were taught about the ummah, islamic brotherhood etc. Then came 911, we turned against the then Afghan government and our national narrative was changed from Ummah to Pakistan first. Now if some one talks about Ummah / Khilafah / Islamic Brotherhood he is frowned upon.

I would like people to discuss pros and cons of "Ummah" unity narrative.

Thank you

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I am pro-Muslim unity and brotherhood. Frankly cannot see any other way out of this situation in which we find ourselves.

Many posters will say that our friendship with Turkey is based on race or ethnicity, but it’s because of our common understanding of Islam which is anti-sectarian and pan-Islamic.

Our relationship with China and Russia are temporary, convenient for the time, based on common short term goals and common adversaries.

Khilafat also is a necessity and we can implement a modern system of it to allow our present nation states.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Many posters will say that our friendship with Turkey is based on race or ethnicity, but it’s because of our common understanding of Islam which is anti-sectarian and pan-Islamic.

Very little to do with Islam. If the Turks posited love on "Islam" they would be hugging Afghans, Arabs of all shades. And if we made love on basis of ummah then we would be firmly clasped to our neighbour on the west - Afghanistan. That is not the case so there goes your 'ummah'.

On the other hand Pakistan is in "higer then mountain deeper then ocean love" with athiest China. This alone explodes any delusion of ummah love. Fact is Pakistan is a nation state and nation states work on the basis of self interest and geo-politics. Meaning peal away the sentiment and all you have is hard nosed interests.

You want ummah love then start from scratch. Meaning Pakistani consititution has to be dissolved and a new Pakistan with a new constitution is set. Along the lines of -

• Provinces are disbanded - good luck in try to do this.
• Pakistan becomes a unitery entity.
• Citizenship is based on religious identity. Muslim in. non Muslims out or can stay as second class citizens.
• Any Muslim from any place on earth regardless of ethnicity or ciitizenship is given leave to enter to live.

Only after this can you then begin to spread the ummah concept by first practicing the ummah concept. Or else it is all talk.

 

[Enigma_]

Frowned upon? Get real. The entire country is gripped by Ummah Chummah.

 

[T-Rex]

Very little to do with Islam. If the Turks posited love on "Islam" they would be hugging Afghans, Arabs of all shades. And if we made love on basis of ummah then we would be firmly clasped to our neighbour on the west - Afghanistan. That is not the case so there goes your 'ummah'.

How do you know that the Turks do not care about the Afghans if that is what you mean by 'hugging'? Do you deny that Pakistan sacrificed a lot for Afghanistan? Why do you presume that there cannot be any dissent in the Ummah?

On the other hand Pakistan is in "higer then mountain deeper then ocean love" with athiest China. This alone explodes any delusion of ummah love. Fact is Pakistan is a nation state and nation states work on the basis of self interest and geo-politics. Meaning peal away the sentiment and all you have is hard nosed interests.

What is your definition of a state nation?

• Provinces are disbanded -

• Why provinces have to be disbanded?

  [*]Pakistan becomes a unitery entity.

  I don't know what you mean by unitery entity?
  
  

  [*]Citizenship is based on religious identity. Muslim in. non Muslims out or can stay as second class citizens.
  [*]Any Muslim from any place on earth regardless of ethnicity or ciitizenship is given leave to enter to live.

Not necessarily. The points you have made have plenty of holes in them but one thing is clear, you hate the ummah. This kind of disagreement encourages live discussion, so those of us who simply want an Islamic union for the sake of preventing genocides and persecution against the Muslims, we welcome such disagreement.

 

[Pakistani E]

our national narrative was changed from Ummah to Pakistan first.

I wonder why that was? Was it because all Muslim countries stood and watched as Pakistan was dismembered by a non Muslim country with impunity? Could it also have been that we gave refuge to people from our western "Muslim" neighbour and supported them against a Communist non Muslim dictatorship and in return they spit on us and consider us their worse enemy?

Or how certain Arab states believed us to be cannon fodder and tried to use our soldiers in their sectarian battles instead of believing like we did about Muslim unity?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I wonder why that was? Was it because all Muslim countries stood and watched as Pakistan was dismembered by a non Muslim country with impunity? Could it also have been that we gave refuge to people from our western "Muslim" neighbour and supported them against a Communist non Muslim dictatorship and in return they spit on us and consider us their worse enemy?

Or how certain Arab states believed us to be cannon fodder and tried to use our soldiers in their sectarian battles instead of believing like we did about Muslim unity?

Yes, you are correct on all accounts.

However, should we abandon the thinking of our predecessors on whose love and sacrifice Pakistan was made in the first place? Those millions who nostalgically reminisce about a strong Muslim country such as the Ghaznavi, Ghori, Delhi Sultanates, and Mughals.

Why do we have to abandon our pure way of thinking and our deep love of the Prophet’s Ummah just because other Muslims aren’t fulfilling their duties? Isn’t this one of the main things which ties us to Kashmiris?

If we lose our Pan-Islamic identity and Iqbal’s vision of a resurgent and proud Islamic nation holding the banner of the Prophet saws, are we really any better than the backstabber leaders among the Arabs, Bangladeshis, Indian Muslims, and Afghans?

 

[newb3e]

nationalist go easy on your ribs easy on glorious Pakistans chest thumping ribs might get damaged lungs might get punctured your nationalist might dream with you!

 

[Azadkashmir]

Well not at this moment in time because we have leaders who are sell out or worse masonic types. Sorry but roman empire has to fall then you can make a move.

Best you can do is when pak goes to war then traitors leaders will pack their bags and fly out only to receive worser punishment. This is the time to complete pak revolution. The leaders of these countries are traitors people are tired and are getting desperate.

Best we can do is mint that gold and silver coin quietly on a small scale.

 

[EasyNow]

The ummah concept is just used to breed traitors in this day and age.

How else could you convince a person to betray there kin and country for the benefit of some bearded conspirator in far off lands?

 

[t_for_talli]

I am pro-Muslim unity and brotherhood. Frankly cannot see any other way out of this situation in which we find ourselves.

Many posters will say that our friendship with Turkey is based on race or ethnicity, but it’s because of our common understanding of Islam which is anti-sectarian and pan-Islamic.

Our relationship with China and Russia are temporary, convenient for the time, based on common short term goals and common adversaries.

Khilafat also is a necessity and we can implement a modern system of it to allow our present nation states.

You are in a delusional world

If you go to China / Russia / West (US Europe), if you work for long enough you get citizenship, you can marry locals there, you can own property,
Unlike Arabic ummah brothers who treat other as second-grade citizens,
- Work for 40 years in KSA, you won't get citizenship
- They will not let locals marry subcontinent Muslims
- They will not let second class Muslims to purchase lands in their country (there are some exceptions but that comes with a lot of clauses/ ifs/buts)
- A White guy / Arab gets a different salary band compared to second-grade ummah brothers employed in same position/ role

ummah ka chummah gumshuda hai.......

 

[aziqbal]

No country is it’s history of Islam has been more powerful than Pakistan not only talking about nukes here the armed forces in general and over firepower, note in absolute fire power terms not iman and Islam

And in 2018 Pakistan has never in its history been as powerful and strong in its history since 1947

Anyone who says othewise is just fear mongering and giving it the usual snowflake America threat

So if any country is to lead it has to be Pakistan, some things you can discuss some things you cannot on this topic you cannot clear and simple

North Korea brought US to the table ok it took 10 years of Nuclear tests but they still they did it and Pakistan is much more powerful than North Korea and they aren’t even Muslim

When our forefathers has empty stomach and no shoes they won today with the best equipment why can’t we win ? Off course we can

But we need iman we need faith and believe in Allah and his promise and we need to either by force or nice words bring Muslims together

In my opinion Pakistan is really the decision maker here stay as we are or start to lead and one day people will remember us

Forget about the Arabs they will not join unless they know we are winning

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

You are in a delusional world

If you go to China / Russia / West (US Europe), if you work for long enough you get citizenship, you can marry locals there, you can own property,
Unlike Arabic ummah brothers who treat other as second-grade citizens,
- Work for 40 years in KSA, you won't get citizenship
- They will not let locals marry subcontinent Muslims
- They will not let second class Muslims to purchase lands in their country (there are some exceptions but that comes with a lot of clauses/ ifs/buts)
- A White guy / Arab gets a different salary band compared to second-grade ummah brothers employed in same position/ role

ummah ka chummah gumshuda hai.......

Blindly idolizing the West has not gotten us anywhere.

Also Ummah doesn’t only belong to the Arabs, but the rest of us who are 80% of the Muslim Ummah.

Pakistani leaders after ZA Bhutto have not been able to present our views, worries, and goals to the rest of the world.

 

[aziqbal]

Churchill who was the prime minster of UK said in 1940 best way to stop another Ottoman Empire or United ummah is to give each Muslim Country a flag , national anthem and country then maybe after 100 years these people will worship flag, national anthem and country, today Pakistani, UAE, Saudi etc soldiers are dying for flag, the divide and conquer has worked Muslims ummah is split and al Aqsa is under occupation while we are divided and can’t do anything

 

[Mahmood-ur-Rehman]

First we should become good Muslim then every thing is possible other wise Utopia