Islam is defined by its followers. We moderate Muslims must act

[EasyNow]

Please support your idea with Quran verses. Allah orders Muslims to use their logic and think about the events. So in this case, if someone still wants 4 witnesses for a rape case which is proven by science, he/she is not Muslim, he/she clearly does not follow the orders.

You have answered your own question. Except you would call them 'not Muslim' but i would call them an extremist.

 

[RescueRanger]

Nothing. I am just going to watch the train crash that is coming.

Bring some popcorn, I will bring the drinks.

 

[VCheng]

Bring some popcorn, I will bring the drinks.

I think beer and pizza will go down better.

 

[gambit]

You see this is it, unless you present a stern unified response, you will be treated as non serious and luke warm. The time for pussyfooting around this subject has passed.

Do you really think that this is the end ? That the Muslims will stop at the Joos ? No.

No one is naive enough to believe that if we respect any physical book of the Quran and we stop any graphical depictions of Muhammad and that will be enough for the Muslims. The mere rumor -- true of false -- of someone mutilating a Quran and pockets of Muslims elsewhere in the world rioted. Today, it is that we stop 'disrespecting' the Quran and that we do not have any graphical depictions of Muhammad. Tomorrow, it WILL be that we do not challenge Islam and Muslims at the intellectual level.

DO NOT tell me that Muslims have no problems with us debating the Quran and Islam. We may be overly tolerant to the Muslims' temper tantrums, but that does not mean we are stupid.

What about those 'shariah zones' in Great Britain and France ? Are those not 'disrespectful' to the locals and the overall citizenry of those countries ? Absolutely they are insulting. But just like you said that the time for pussyfooting around is over, the citizenry of those countries will use those shariah zones as focus of their anger at the Muslims disrespecting them.

 

[RescueRanger]

Do you really think that this is the end ? That the Muslims will stop at the Joos ? No.

No one is naive enough to believe that if we respect any physical book of the Quran and we stop any graphical depictions of Muhammad and that will be enough for the Muslims. The mere rumor -- true of false -- of someone mutilating a Quran and pockets of Muslims elsewhere in the world rioted. Today, it is that we stop 'disrespecting' the Quran and that we do not have any graphical depictions of Muhammad. Tomorrow, it WILL be that we do not challenge Islam and Muslims at the intellectual level.

DO NOT tell me that Muslims have no problems with us debating the Quran and Islam. We may be overly tolerant to the Muslims' temper tantrums, but that does not mean we are stupid.

What about those 'shariah zones' in Great Britain and France ? Are those not 'disrespectful' to the locals and the overall citizenry of those countries ? Absolutely they are insulting. But just like you said that the time for pussyfooting around is over, the citizenry of those countries will use those shariah zones as focus of their anger at the Muslims disrespecting them.

You have basically repeated what I said, I am in agreement with you.

 

[MastanKhan]

Islam will need to make introspective analysis and eventual reformation. There has to be a doctrinal, liturgical and theological authority wherein all branches of Islam may refer to for guidance.

Hi,

The change needs to come from Top Down. The state needs to take charge---it needs to dictate the action of its citizens---

Do you really think that this is the end ? That the Muslims will stop at the Joos ? No.

No one is naive enough to believe that if we respect any physical book of the Quran and we stop any graphical depictions of Muhammad and that will be enough for the Muslims. The mere rumor -- true of false -- of someone mutilating a Quran and pockets of Muslims elsewhere in the world rioted. Today, it is that we stop 'disrespecting' the Quran and that we do not have any graphical depictions of Muhammad. Tomorrow, it WILL be that we do not challenge Islam and Muslims at the intellectual level.

DO NOT tell me that Muslims have no problems with us debating the Quran and Islam. We may be overly tolerant to the Muslims' temper tantrums, but that does not mean we are stupid.

What about those 'shariah zones' in Great Britain and France ? Are those not 'disrespectful' to the locals and the overall citizenry of those countries ? Absolutely they are insulting. But just like you said that the time for pussyfooting around is over, the citizenry of those countries will use those shariah zones as focus of their anger at the Muslims disrespecting them.

Hi,

Sir---you are in the 2000th year of your religious beginning----we are only at 1400th years of ours---.

When you were at 1400th year of your beginning----you were slaughtering them enmasse---you were burning them in hundreds of thousands----butchering them every which way possible.

Pappy---I love you buddy----but Christianity has slaughtered more innocent than Islam ever will.

Have you ever heard of Spanish inquisition---it was not against the jews about about the killings of the muslims---the Christians won the war against the muslims---muslims were slaughtered in milllions---. Even though the jews were allies to the catholic church---the church turned n them----. All and every mention of the slaughter of the muslims has been categorically wiped out from european history and jews brought their name up front to gain sympathy.

Sir--- the united states history starts some plus years ago---there was world existing long before that----and atrocities committed against the muslims by the European Christian forces are a part of history----.

 

[Pride]

Hi,

The change needs to come from Top Down. The state needs to take charge---it needs to dictate the action of its citizens---


Hi,

Sir---you are in the 2000th year of your religious beginning----we are only at 1400th years of ours---.

When you were at 1400th year of your beginning----you were slaughtering them enmasse---you were burning them in hundreds of thousands----butchering them every which way possible.

Pappy---I love you buddy----but Christianity has slaughtered more innocent than Islam ever will.

Have you ever heard of Spanish inquisition---it was not against the jews about about the killings of the muslims---the Christians won the war against the muslims---muslims were slaughtered in milllions---. Even though the jews were allies to the catholic church---the church turned n them----. All and every mention of the slaughter of the muslims has been categorically wiped out from european history and jews brought their name up front to gain sympathy.

Sir--- the united states history starts some plus years ago---there was world existing long before that----and atrocities committed against the muslims by the European Christian forces are a part of history----.

Dear Sir, with due respect, I disagree the way you are pointing the things. Christianity might have killed many but remember that was "WAR". One can't compare normal killing in name of religion spreading to a killing in war. General Ayub Khan did that mistake in 1965 between India-Pakistan war when he made it Hindu-Muslim war.

Also, This is not the first time Islam is at this juncture, since its evolution of Islam till today the killing and conversion is much much higher than any other religion did in the world. Muslims might not agree with it and that is OK from their POV but miles away from Truth. Except, some South East Asian countries' where King accepted the religion which followed by others , Many countries' religion and culture killed by Islamic warriors. Ghauri, Ghazni, Bin Qasim, Changez Khan etc are such gems.

Pointing out other religion will not help, at least not now!

 

[MastanKhan]

Mocking Islam and Muslims is an old tradition of France. This stamp is of Muslims beheaded in Morocco by the French and used as French Stamp. 1922

 

[rockstar08]

Mocking Islam and Muslims is an old tradition of France. This stamp is of Muslims beheaded in Morocco by the French and used as French Stamp. 1922

is this for real ?

 

[MastanKhan]

is this for real ?

A friend forwarded that to me---I have asked for confirmation---.

 

[rockstar08]

A friend forwarded that to me---I have asked for confirmation---.

that is very sick ....

 

[Frogman]

Elsisi: Revolution of Religious Discourse Required

 

[Viper0011.]

Paris Charlie Hebdo massacre: We moderate Muslims must act - Telegraph

Islam is defined by its followers. We moderate Muslims must act

@TankMan @T-Faz @waz @Jungibaaz

Here is what the world is tired of seeing "Terrorist attacks with the name of Allah or Islam". Here is what the world is tired of hearing "Islam is a peaceful religion" by everyone coming on TV from the Muslim community, explaining why some attack took place and how many Muslims are against it.

So before you disconnect with the post I wrote above, try to understand the point. We are what we do. If I am nice to a person, he or she'll see it with my behavior. If I am angry and abusive to someone, they'll see it black and white. In either situation, no one really cares about how good of a school I went to, or how great of a religion I followed or how great and civilized my parents were.

Similarly, people don't see Christians getting so upset if someone questioned their religion, to a point that someone will be killed. Similarly, the Buddhists or Atheists don't blow themselves up because they weren't getting their way, or Gays don't kill others because they were discriminated against.

The point is, the TEACHERS of Islam, the Imams and the Scholars in the past 3-4 decades historically have been illiterate, majority of the Muslims have read the Arabic Koran but they don't speak the actual language or understand it so having read the Koran in Arabic doesn't give them any meaning to actually understand it. So whoever translates it the way they want to, the followers understand and follow. Lower education doesn't allow people to question the religious authority.

So a guy who wants to run a terrorist shop, tells people whatever he wants to, with holding or reciting a Koran, the followers, not having any real knowledge about their own religion, go and follow God's commands and fulfill these extremist religious "teachers" agenda. The craziness and the intensity is highlighted and intensified with speeches against other Muslim sects, other religions and the brain washing continues till hatred is converted into terrorism.

But what do we hear from everyone else after an incident takes place? We hear that Islam is a peaceful religion.

If anyone lost their family in a safe Western society to some terrorist outfit, do you think that they'll actually listen to "Islam is a peaceful society"?

Bottom line is, the Islamic world needs to take some serious actions and I think it was needed many years ago. The citizens of the world don't expect 1.2 billion people to change their religion but to exercise restrain and patience, specially towards other countries, religions and cultures and people. That is the ONLY way to show a peaceful Islam. Talking alone doesn't help or create a better image than what's already on TV, with a few people shouting God's name with automatic weapons in their hands. A sentence that "Islam is peaceful" by a few on tv for 30 seconds each, DOESN'T overwrite constant feed of thousands of images of pain or sorrow caused by a few terrorists from Yemen or Afghanistan, etc.

No religion is someone's home grown product. Usually there is a God or some higher power you believe in. Let that higher power take account of someone doing wrong. When humans start doing it, it becomes terrorism and people and the news media remembers is for many, many years to come. In cases like NY, London, Paris, Bali, Peshawer or Karachi....these terrorism incidents become a part of the dark and painful human history.

At this time, I think a few changes are needed. First one being, the Islamic Clerics need to be educated. And I don't mean educated like have PHD in Islamic studies. But higher education from science and technology related schools and preferably some Western experience at a younger age. Not at age 40 or 50 when your brain has taken its roots and whatever belief or intensity you've built, becomes a part of who you are.

Then, there should be a code of conduct and a curriculum that should be taught to all scholars and Imams and all in every Muslim country. Every individual has the right to follow his or her own faith. But no one has the right to destroy others because their faith and believe system is different than yours. This one aspect should be put out more by Clerics so that people start to form a more tolerant society everywhere.

The moderate Muslims need to come out, openly question the intensity, rigidness in any cleric's teachings and expose him before someone's agenda produces dangerous and intolerant minds.

The Muslim countries and their governments have to put in processes in place so that people living in their culture can NOT be turned into extremists, similar to how the society in Malaysia or Indonesia or to some degree in Turkey works.

Clerics and teachings are fine, but spreading hatred should be punishable by the most severe form. Moderate Muslims need to write more books, material and participate with their Western or Eastern friends in showing solidarity and a community.

What happened in NY, London or Paris wasn't exactly a product of the Western culture, it was a product of different Muslim countries internal culture. And that has to change so there is no NY, London, Paris, Peshawer or Karachi incidents. All of these incidents target all races and religions equally. And it should stop.

 

[Bang Galore]

Here is what the world is tired of seeing "Terrorist attacks with the name of Allah or Islam". Here is what the world is tired of hearing "Islam is a peaceful religion" by everyone coming on theTV from the Muslim community, explaining why some attack took place and how many Muslims are against it.

So before you disconnect with the post I wrote above, try to understand the point. We are what we do. If I am nice to a person, he or she'll see it with my behavior. If I am angry and abusive to someone, they'll see it black and white. In either situation, no one really cares about how good of a school I went to, or how great of a religion I followed or how great and civilized my parents were.

Similarly, people don't see Christians getting so upset if someone questioned their religion, to a point that someone will be killed. Similarly, the Buddhists or Atheists don't blow themselves up because they weren't getting their way, or Gays don't kill others because they were discriminated against.

The point is, the TEACHERS of Islam, the Imams and the Scholars in the past 3-4 decades historically have been illiterate, majority of the Muslims have read the Arabic Koran but they don't speak the actual language or understand it so having read the Koran in Arabic doesn't give them any meaning to actually understand it. So whoever translates it the way they want to, the followers understand and follow. Lower education doesn't allow people to question the religious authority.

So a guy who wants to run a terrorist shop, tells people whatever he wants to, with holding or reciting a Koran, the followers, not having any real knowledge about their own religion, go and follow God's commands and fulfill these extremist religious "teachers" agenda. The craziness and intensity is highlighted and intensified with speeches against other Muslim sects, other religions and the brain washing continues till hatred is converted into terrorism.

But what do we hear from everyone else after an incident takes place? We hear that Islam is a peaceful religion.

If anyone lost their family in a safe Western society to some terrorist outfit, do you think that they'll actually listen to "Islam is a peaceful society"?

Bottom line is, the Islamic world needs to take some serious actions and I think it was needed many years ago. The citizens of the world don't expect 1.2 billion people to change their religion but to exercise restrain and patience, specially with other countries, religions and cultures and people.

No religion is someone's home grown product. Usually there is a God or some higher power you believe in. Let that higher power take account of someone doing wrong. When humans start doing it, it becomes terrorism.

At this time, I think a few changes are needed. First one being, the Islamic Clerics need to be educated. And I don't mean educated like have PHD in Islamic studies. But higher education from science and technology related schools and preferably some Western experience at a younger age. Not at age 40 or 50 when your brain has taken its roots and whatever belief or intensity you've built, becomes a part of who you are.

Then, there should be a code of conduct and a curriculum that should be taught to all scholars and Imams and all in every country. Every individual has the right to follow his or her own faith. But no one has a right to destroy others because their faith and believe system is different than yours. This one aspect should be put out more by Clerics so that people start to form a more tolerant society everywhere.

The moderate Muslims need to come out, openly question the intensity, rigidness in any cleric's teachings and expose him before someone's agenda produces dangerous and intolerant minds.

The Muslim countries and their governments have to put in processes in place so that people living in their culture can NOT be turned into extremists, similar to how stuff is in Malaysia or Indonesia or to some degree in Turkey.
Clerics and teachings are fine, but spreading hatred should be punishable by the most severe form. Moderate Muslims need to write more books, material and participate with their Western or Eastern friends in showing solidarity and a community.

What happened in NY, London or Paris wasn't exactly a product of the Western culture, it was a product of different Muslim countries internal culture. And that has to change so there is no NY, London, Paris, Peshawer or Karachi incidents. All of these incidents target all races and religions equally. And it should stop.

This is a masterpiece of a post.

 

[gambit]

Sir---you are in the 2000th year of your religious beginning----we are only at 1400th years of ours---.

When you were at 1400th year of your beginning----you were slaughtering them enmasse---you were burning them in hundreds of thousands----butchering them every which way possible.

Pappy---I love you buddy----but Christianity has slaughtered more innocent than Islam ever will.

Are the Muslims trying to catch up ? Are you seeing the leaders of the Christian sects bragging about that bloody past ?

But it is clear that you avoided the point -- that it is unlikely that the Muslims will ever be satisfied with us respecting the Quran and stop drawing Muhammad. So unlikely that it might as well be impossible.