Islam is defined by its followers. We moderate Muslims must act

[RescueRanger]

Buddy, I assembled many IKEA furniture in my life and I still have a few more decades of living. Furniture and scale models have clearer instructions than your religious texts, whatever religion you are.

If the Quran or the Bible or the Torah is that clear, we would not have the Quran or the Bible or the Torah, do we ?

But since we do have the Quran, the Bible, the Torah, and hundreds of apocryphal texts associated with each book, the overall confusion mean each religion is EXACTLY how its believers define it by way of daily living.

You are wrong. Move on.

Perfectly put!

 

[Luffy 500]

Isamic is what Quran and Sunnah teaches NOT what muslims do.

I believe that more can be done at an international level in terms of imposing sanctions on countries that do not adhere to basic human rights – those who permit stoning a woman to death if she is found to have had sex outside of marriage, for example, or the cutting of hands in cases of theft. And that’s without even touching on the horror visited upon those in the LGBT community.

If her problem is Islam itself, then its better she leaves the faith which she hardly cares abt and follow her vain desires , publish some anti-islamic books and become a poster girl of western media rather than acting as a moderate "muslim". Because her acting is a pure fail. Needs to go back to her CIA masters to learn a thing or 2 abt islamic principles.

 

[gambit]

1. Metallurgy can be used to cast cooking utensils and it can also be used to make weapons, weapons that kill. So the fault is of the knowledge i.e. metallurgy or its product i.e. weapons or of those who wield those weapons and kill people?

2. Chemistry can be used to make life-saving drugs and it can also be used to make Heroin; is Chemistry bad?

3. Printing press/Desktop printing can be used to print knowledge, literature, and poetry, but some use it to print hate material, p0rn? Is this the fault of the printing press/desktop printing or of those who use it for wrong purposes?

4. Scientists and scholars were burnt alive on the alters in the name of blasphemy; was that fault of Christianity or those so-called Christians who used the religion to further their political/social agenda?

Nothing, let alone religion, is defined by those who use it. Religion(s) are nothing more than pieces of knowledge, and how the knowledge will be used depends not on the knowledge but on those who decide how to use it.

The definition of 'knowledge' is:

- facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.

Religion is much much more than that. Religion offers the hope of understanding of existence by claiming to have exclusive access to the supernatural, which is presumed to be the beginning and end of existence itself.

To continue with the examples in your argument, does the printing press shop claim to have any knowledge and insight into whatever the shop prints ? No.

Does the periodic table claim to know if you are going to make medicine or poison ? No.

Does religion ? Yes.

The hammer does not know it your target is going to be a nail or a skull. In this, if a skull was bashed in, then you can blame the person who wielded the hammer. But if the hammer actually spoke in some mysterious ways to its wielder and persuaded him to bash in a skull, then of course you can blame the hammer as well as the person who wielded the hammer.

Do religions speaks in mysterious ways to its believers ? Absolutely.

 

[syedali73]

The definition of 'knowledge' is:

- facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.

Religion is much much more than that. Religion offers the hope of understanding of existence by claiming to have exclusive access to the supernatural, which is presumed to be the beginning and end of existence itself.

To continue with the examples in your argument, does the printing press shop claim to have any knowledge and insight into whatever the shop prints ? No.

Does the periodic table claim to know if you are going to make medicine or poison ? No.

Does religion ? Yes.

The hammer does not know it your target is going to be a nail or a skull. In this, if a skull was bashed in, then you can blame the person who wielded the hammer. But if the hammer actually spoke in some mysterious ways to its wielder and persuaded him to bash in a skull, then of course you can blame the hammer as well as the person who wielded the hammer.

Do religions speaks in mysterious ways to its believers ? Absolutely.

You are giving more-than-due credit to religion(s) but you are entitled to your opinion.

OK, for the argument sake, lets say Islam is defined by its followers. Muslim population, at this time, stands at estimated 1.6 to 1.7 billion. Are you (and others of your opinion) suggesting that all these Muslims are fanatics? In order for a religion to be labeled as bad, theoretically, a majority of its followers should be bad. Now if you say that maybe 10% or 20% or 30% Muslims are bad but others are just fine, then why the so-called good/moderate Muslims standing at 70% are not counted as those Muslims who define Islam?

 

[Kesang]

I have seen several times that people Or organisations offended jews, Hindus, Christian( memes of jesus are extremely common in social media ) and other religion and they do protest but Why only muslims kills people who offended them?

 

[RescueRanger]

You are giving more-than-due credit to religion(s) but you are entitled to your opinion.

OK, for the argument sake, lets say Islam is defined by its followers. Muslim population, at this time, stands at estimated 1.6 to 1.7 billion. Are you (and others of your opinion) suggesting that all these Muslims are fanatics? In order for a religion to be labeled as bad, theoretically, a majority of its followers should be bad. Now if you say that maybe 10% or 20% or 30% Muslims are bad but others are just fine, then why the so-called good/moderate Muslims standing at 70% are not counted as those Muslims who define Islam?

Syed Ali, I really like your way of reasoning.

 

[syedali73]

Syed Ali, I really like your way of reasoning.

Appreciate Sir.

 

[RescueRanger]

I have seen several times that people Or organisations offended jews, Hindus, Christian( memes of jesus are extremely common in social media ) and other religion and they do protest but Why only muslims kills people who offended them?

Until mainstream Muslims stand up and fight back the radical elements within their communities that are hijacking their faith, this cycle will continue.

 

[gambit]

You are giving more-than-due credit to religion(s) but you are entitled to your opinion.

OK, for the argument sake, lets say Islam is defined by its followers. Muslim population, at this time, stands at estimated 1.6 to 1.7 billion. Are you (and others of your opinion) suggesting that all these Muslims are fanatics? In order for a religion to be labeled as bad, theoretically, a majority of its followers should be bad. Now if you say that maybe 10% or 20% or 30% Muslims are bad but others are just fine, then why the so-called good/moderate Muslims standing at 70% are not counted as those Muslims who define Islam?

No. I am saying that given the inherently mysterious nature of religions, be it Islam or Christianity or Rastafarianism, confusion is inevitable and among the confused will be those who are certain of what they gleamed from the religion to be guidance for their actions.

I admire woodworkers, especially the ones who over time and dedication became craftsmen. I doubt that when said craftsman begins the day, his tools speaks to him and point him to which joint to create the most sturdy table or the plane whispers to him on how much wood to shave.

But a religion does exactly that. A religion tells the male believer that if he lives his life according to this list of virtues and actions, he will receive this list of benefits from his god in the afterlife or even some benefits in this life. Then this same religion tells the female believer that if she lives her life according to this list of virtues and actions, she will receive this list of benefits from her god in the afterlife or even some benefits in this life.

The problem here is that the religion does not speak with clarity but in codes and riddles. So mysterious are these codes and riddles that an entire category of humans is needed: the priesthood. Each priest a flawed human being attempting to negotiate with a being he/she believes to be flawless, but still speaks in codes and riddles. The result, each priest ends up putting his/her own psychological imprint into the religion and the rest of the believers are no better off.

So yes, your Islam is very much defined by the Muslims, including the violent ones. No human personality is ever simple, so what make you think your religion's personality can be simply defined with a single descriptor ?

Despite the fact that there probably are more sects in Christianity than there are in Islam, non-violence is the primary and common core among the Christian sects. We are talking about TODAY, not a few hundred yrs ago.

 

[VCheng]

Syed Ali, I really like your way of reasoning.

Except that the percentages estimated may not be underestimates by a large margin.

 

[syedali73]

Miley Jo hashr meiN ley looN zuban Naaseyh ki
Ajeeb cheez hai yeh tool-e-muddua key liyeh

Thank you George or Mark whoever said it, your advice always helps me directing my time and energy in doing better things.

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

 

[RescueRanger]

Except that the percentages estimated may not be underestimates by a large margin.

You see this is it, unless you present a stern unified response, you will be treated as non serious and luke warm. The time for pussyfooting around this subject has passed.

 

[VCheng]

You see this is it, unless you present a stern unified response, you will be treated as non serious and luke warm. The time for pussyfooting around this subject has passed.

The time may have passed, but what are we going to do about it? We say this after every atrocity and then go to sleep until the next one happens.

 

[RescueRanger]

The time may have passed, but what are we going to do about it? We say this after every atrocity and then go to sleep until the next one happens.

What am I going to do about it? Should I not ask that question of YOU? I have done my fair share, and continue to do so. But you Mr. Ali Haider, living in the land of the brave and the free... The Question is WHAT are YOU going to do about it?

Hath Par Hath Dhare Muntazir-e-Farda Ho!

 

[VCheng]

What am I going to do about it? Should I not ask that question of YOU? I have done my fair share, and continue to do so. But you Mr. Ali Haider, living in the land of the brave and the free... The Question is WHAT are YOU going to do about it?

Hath Par Hath Dhare Muntazir-e-Farda Ho!

Nothing. I am just going to watch the train crash that is coming.