Islam Flourishes in China's Ningxia Region

[ephone]

First, my discussion w.r.t. to women's right has nothing to do with your pork topic. It is in response to another person's post. I actually write up my responses to more than one person's post. It may get you confused.

About class distinction, actually it is for those hindus. It is more problematic for hindus than for muslims.

As for women's right, I do not think it has anything to do with economics development at all. The problem deep down is within the religion and it is not fit for the current time and need radical reform.

As I have mentioned, islam really need radical change. Before Martin Luther, Christianity is quite close to terrorist religion due to all of those crusades. Every robbery the popes or kings do, they will cite god as their initiator and protector as if god allows them to do so.

Similarly today, every muslim terrorists will cite allah before blowing themselves as if their god allows and encourages them to do so.

Once China become a democratic country, which I believe it will become sooner or later, though not sure if it will be same version of democracy as the West, they will have freedom of religion, so people will have the right to choose and freely practice their religion. So there will be more Muslims, Christians, Falun Gong, Buddhist etc. Not sure how it can be controlled or kept limited in this situation.

By controlling its population China did a great service to humanity, and all the countries that are breeding like rabbits, including my own should learn from this example. We got too many damn people in this world, it is destroying our environment. I have no children and do not plan to have any, so I practice what I preach.

About Muslim women's rights, I was talking about Pork being not a very healthy food, but you brought up women's rights and class distinction among Muslims, so this was uncalled for to begin with, as I was not discussing those issues. Not sure about class distinctions, but women's rights is the most common accusations Islamophobes use to defame Islam, that is why I mentioned propaganda, as it is very common in current pop culture, thanks to Zionist run world main stream media.

There are women's rights issues in underdeveloped part of Muslim societies, just like any other underdeveloped societies, it more has to do with underdevelopment (not related to money, as even GCC countries I consider as underdeveloped even though they have oil money) and resulting backwardness of societies and its peoples. Why Muslim societies are backward, that goes into Muslim history, and its a long story. But I will just give you one example, before Afghanistan became the hell hole it is today, it used to be a relatively liberal place:
Once Upon a Time in Afghanistan

Guess what happened, it became a geopolitical football between, USA and Soviet Union and their junior partners, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the rest is history. Societies are fragile things and it is easy to destroy them, if one is not careful. In brief, Muslims due to their own fault, lost their empires and unity and others tore them apart like sharks or hyenas, and what you see today is the torn pieces and the resulting garbage they create.

I well mention a few other things, the US, the champion of women's and human rights, gave women the right to vote only in 1920, like many other Western countries, so changes happened in Western societies very recently.
Women's suffrage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Women's rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Also see:
Women in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also here is current women's status in the world:

It shows Iran and Turkey has the same situation as Bangladesh, Tajikistan, Egypt, Morocco and Algeria, while Tunisia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Indonesia and Malaysia scored higher and Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan have the highest among Muslim majority countries.

Note that India, Thailand, Burma, many African and South American non-Muslim countries scored lower than some Muslim countries. Even Russia and Italy scored lower than Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan.

So bottom line is that many Muslim countries are in bad situation, but it more has to do with socio-economic backwardness then religion itself, while Islamophobe propaganda masters use these bad examples to show Islam in a bad light.

 

[LogiCal]

.
.
IMHO, The Chinese people have chosen the religion/philosophy best suitable for them long ago......
This religion(Buddhism) and Chinese culture have intermingled in such a way that one cannot distinguish between them now......
Since the Chinese people are inherently averse to religious extremism.....any extremist religion might not prove good for China....

 

[kalu_miah]

First, my discussion w.r.t. to women's right has nothing to do with your pork topic. It is in response to another person's post. I actually write up my responses to more than one person's post. It may get you confused.

About class distinction, actually it is for those hindus. It is more problematic for hindus than for muslims.

As for women's right, I do not think it has anything to do with economics development at all. The problem deep down is within the religion and it is not fit for the current time and need radical reform.

As I have mentioned, islam really need radical change. Before Martin Luther, Christianity is quite close to terrorist religion due to all of those crusades. Every robbery the popes or kings do, they will cite god as their initiator and protector as if god allows them to do so.

Similarly today, every muslim terrorists will cite allah before blowing themselves as if their god allows and encourages them to do so.

You are equating some intolerant variant of Islam and their derivative extremists (a small percentage of whom are violent "terrorists") within Islam with all of Islam and Muslim population of the world. Islam needs change and reform, like all other religions, no disagreement there and it will come with time, I am sure. Religious meme's need skillful management from the state or concerned states, otherwise they can easily go out of control, like they did due to Zbigniew Brzezinski's use of Saudi version of Islam as well as the violent extreme faction of Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood as a geopolitical tool in Afghan-Pakistan theater. This geopolitical blunder has a lot to do with the birth of "Islamic terror", Al Quaeda etc.

And women's right has a lot to do with economic development, just look at the map, but it has a lot do with pre-existing culture also. Kyrgyzstan is a poor Muslim country, a lot poorer than Saudi Arabia or Turkey, but due to its Mongol-like nomadic traditional culture, it has very high women's right, higher than almost all other Muslim countries, except Kazakhstan, another Mongol-like nomadic culture. Since Kazakh's have oil and other minerals and land for wheat production, their society is more advanced and as a result women have higher rights there. I have spent significant time in both countries.

 

[LogiCal]

Pork is known to have a special pathogen that can infect the brain, so unless its cooked really well, it is a very dangerous food. May be someone has more knowledge.

It was made haram for Jewish and Muslim traditions for good reason.

Do you know about a disease called Bovine spongiform encephalopathy(Mad Cow Disease), which effects ONLY cows...and eating infected cows can transfer the disease to humans....and guess what, the halal process cannot eliminate the risk.....

 

[kalu_miah]

Do you know about a disease called Bovine spongiform encephalopathy(Mad Cow Disease), which effects ONLY cows...and eating infected cows can transfer the disease to humans....and guess what, the halal process cannot eliminate the risk.....

I rarely eat meat, mostly I eat raw salad and some steamed vegetable and organic grains. When I eat beef/lamb/goat, I try to eat organic, and try to limit myself to natural or halal chicken, which happens to be more fresh, compared to chicken that comes from meat processing factories. BSE problem comes from putting animal leftover proteins into cattle feed, a result of factory farming.

 

[LogiCal]

Oh please Nehru had as much fault in splitting up the subcontinent as Jinnah did. Also I thought India had more Muslims than Pakistan, then how come those Muslims aren't demanding their own separate "Pure" country? Fear mongering at its best.

Understand the post before replying......

I've said something about the critical percentage....
Partition occurred due to this critical mass....after partition since majority of the Muslims were separated...the percentage dropped......with time, this percentage will rise as Muslims have higher birth rate than Hindus(Hindu birth rate is controlled by several measures)......and when they'll reach the critical percentage again.....problems would surely rise...

 

[Hasbara Buster]

China and its little-known Muslim history

Thank you for posting.. I found this for those who want more information on the same subject;

http://www.ircica.org/content_images/IRCICA_China Congress Program.pdf

 

[Joe Shearer]

Let us deal with these ravings each statement at a time: they do not contain enough substance to be called arguments.

I hope because if we look South Korea it's a coexistence with a lot of conflict christian attack buddhist people

So one reason why this genius loathes Christianity (or Christianism, as his neologism goes) is because in south Korea, Christians attack Buddhists. As already pointed out, this is hardly a criterion; people of all religions attack people of other religions; almost no one is exempt from that rule. But facts don't matter to our little genius.

It does not matter to him, devoid of any knowledge of current affairs or recent history that he is, that Buddhists can also be savage and beastly when they can do that without retribution. Ask the Jaffna Tamils.

and remember you Taiping Rebelion who massacred Chinese culture kill/burn buddhist , taoist , confucianist people/Temple-Pagoda ( mainly buddhist ).

The Taiping Rebellion? The rebels are now supposed to be Christian, just because their leader declared that he was the brother of Jesus Christ? So any bunch of sectarian fanatics in China can declare themselves anything, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Jew, Pastafarian, anything, and their lunatic acts are then the fault of whichever unhappy religion they have affilited themselves?

What next? Is the Cargo Cult in the south Pacific to be the fault of McDonnell Douglas?

Our budding genius elsewhere finds loathing for Christianity in the acts of Christians in Hong Kong praying for democracy. It seems that the wunderkind likes the totalitarian ways of the CPC; let us rise in salute, dear readers, here we have the last of the Maoists. Pity he lacks the knowledge that both Sun Yatsen and Mao Zedong heaped praise on the Taipings.

But then, learning was not his strong point. His strong point is emotion, the constantly standing in front of us and sobbing that he gets no respect.

Quelle surprise, petit erudit! He doesn't know whom to blame for what.

Christian history is really not good.

True.

Nor the history of any other religion. Already pointed out, but our boy genius does not notice. He is too busy for facts; he wants not to be mocked.

mainly the American Christian tries to convert the poor of our country I can not bear this technical Disgusting.
he takes advantage of their ignorance and their weakness for convertires.

One solution might be to eliminate the poor. Another might be to preach Buddhism, or whatever religion grips the young genius, in the US. It seems singularly futile to resent someone's actions without having the gumption to do something about it.

Anyway everyone understood that I hate Christianity (for many reason ) and I have not particularly want to see this religion in our country ( there are others but mainly christianism )

So everyone understood him to be a bigot.

My sincere condolences.

May you have a speedy recovery.

An answer based on an irony, but a contempt for the author I guess.

Given the total lack of substance in the author, what else is expected?

your arrogance represent just your stupidity, we can see the low quality of your answer. ( if we guess my reasoning is correct )

On the contrary, my attitude represents a mastery of the facts, facts which rarely make an appearance in the noisy but purposeless comments made by those I contradict. Stupidity is saying over and over again that you are offended, without correcting your original statements. Already said before.

PS: don't worry that India becomes Christian or no is not my problem. I don't care seriously. ( I reassure you a little )
Happy ?

Who cares either way? Not I!

But I am far from reassured, while some dimwits are still running around loose.

Neither happy nor unhappy; hatred of an entire religion, or an entire community of believers, is a pathological condition. It is an illness. That is why I wished you a speedy recovery, and condoled you. It was about you, not about India, which is not infected, not about me, as I am not affected, and not even about those others, Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Chinese, who are affected by the disease.

If India becomes Christian, or Muslim, or Buddhist, or Hindu, due to the natural desires of the people, it is of no consequence. If these things happen due to coercion, administrative measures or use of force, that is an evil thing and should be resisted.

How that shows me as stupid is no doubt something you will get around to answering in the fullness of time. And, yes, I am a little relieved, not much more than a little, as you are still defending your indefensible bigotry, rather than thinking about the errors of your ways.

Of course for a person that has never read the Bible (Old Testament)

or to study Christian history.

How would an absolute stranger, an illiterate to boot, know this?

Especially for someone who don't knows why I hate that or other , I find you are quite arrogant .

Lack of substance in someone else's posts is not my problem. I find those quite vapid, empty.

And no ! I don't think I hate this religion just with your reasoning that you thought.
but for several reason who are just unknown in you that fact that I hate this religion, I have some tolerence but i have my limits.

This is a phrase repeated from another thread. It is interesting to note that you are as devoid of substance there as well.

Do you want I explain you ? ( I light your ignorance ) ( My reasoning maybe quite long, same extremly long )

How difficult is it to understand that we are each responsible for our own content, or lack of it? Whether I wish to make my posts strong, or prefer to keep them weak, is not something where I need guidance from another person.

Disabuse yourself of that notion. I have read the Bible closely for a period of forty years, and I am a graduate in history. My favourite subject was European history and I am very familiar with the history of the early Church, as well as its subsequent development to date.

I am, indeed, arrogant, and that has nothing to do with knowing why you hate this, that or the other. If you hate ALL religions, you are a rationalist, as are many of us, and may be agnostic or atheist. If you hate one religion over all others, you are a bigot. Again, as are many of us. It is as simple and as plain as that. Where does arrogance come into it?

You will be surprised to learn that your mysterious hatred, which you refuse to explain, is not entirely unknown to humanity as a defence. Others have used it before, and come out looking ridiculous. It is not a particularly sound strategy.

"I do not like thee, Dr. Fell,
The reason why, I cannot tell,
But this I know, and know full well,
I do not like thee, Dr. Fell!"

I suggest you practise shorter sentences first, and get your grammar and syntax under better control.

I know you are arrogant and stupid, it's easy when your country speak english like mother tongue , maybe you want speak an another language ? chinese maybe ? or no sorry you don't know speak chinese!

Why not the language of the forum, English? If you cannot handle it, why did you come here?

So speak french with me we can see your stupid lvl ( Oh ! no sorry you don't know speak an another language that your mother tongue you are just like an american or a french when he has no an argument )

so we don't speak with our mother tongue speak in french with me ( i guess my assumption is correct you are not intelligent )

Have you counted how often you say "I guess..." or "assumption"? Why, when you know so little, do you allow yourself the luxury of guessing and assuming?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/187892-thousands-christians-pray-democracy-china.html ( a first part why i hate )

What rubbish! These are the grounds for your hatred of Christianity?

Premièrement parle moi sur un autre ton pauvre con , je suis pas ton amis ok ?

Thank you for your advice. How very thoughtful of you! As it happens, I had no desire or intention to befriend any and every random poster on the Internet, so you may be quite at peace. I had no illusion that you were my friend.

The tone I use is appropriate to the person I use it with.

si tu voulais éviter le conflict. il ne fallait pas me parler ainsi.
De plus vu ton arrogance et ton ignorance je te suggère vivement de te la fermer.

I couldn't care less.

Tu es assez arrogant pour me provoquer et d'être étonné que je te parle aussi mal, tu crois sérieusement que je me serai rabaissé par une personne comme toi, laisse moi rire, vu le peu d'intelligence que me sors dans tes phrases tu devrais ( et c'est un conseil ) d'éviter les conflicts inutiles.

Do you have anything to say, or do you spend all your time bursting with rage at being ignored?

Contrairement à toi j'ai étudié ceci en France, je suis allé dans des églises chrétiennens catholique ainsi que des profésseurs en philosophie ou d'histoire. qui montrer des lapidations, des gens brulé sur un buché.

How silly can you get? All the way to France, to the land of Christian churches, studying with professors of philosophy and history, just to discover that Christians stoned people to death? Or that in mediaeval times, and in the early American colonial era, they burnt religious nonconformists at the stake?

Stoning was not a Christian punishment. It was a Jewish punishment, and is an Islamic punishment.

People have been burnt at the stake, and there are cruel punishments in all religions.

Oui, j'ai bien compris que tu étais un chrétien mais vu le peu d'argument et je doute même de tes paroles que tu es étudié 40 ans.

You understand nothing. I am not a Christian. I am a scholar. And you are in no position to assess my knowledge of the Bible. Whether you doubt my word on that or not is a matter of the most indifference to me.

you Understand ?
And yes don't worry I don't care your country.
early church it's finish ok ?le christianisme est représentative d'aujourd'hui

I understand that you are not right in the head, and that you are incapable of presenting an argument. You have not presented one single rational argument, just your repeated appeals for attention.

You will get that attention once you start speaking sense.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

Yet you prefer to live in this terrible West.

Go and live in Sharia state, if u really believe in it.

Can I live in your little theocratic apartheid state? Please allow me, please, I beg you

 

[yewsapxaiisher]

Well Not just Islam, Every religion In china is increasing with the increasing Population, China is People Republic, They've no other way to Build their Country, Hindus, Jews, Budhadists, Christians are same as Muslims their, That's their own strategy to get the business from the world ...and they are successfull in that

 

[ephone]

You are totally wrong here. Women are widely abused in muslim countries and women's rights are ignored in many ways in every muslim countries. The only difference is that certain countries ignore more and certain countries ignore less.

As for tolerance, none of the muslim countries have set up a good example. In other religions, you can convert to them and you can go away from them if you wish to do so. However, born in muslim families, you have to be a muslim, if you dare to go away from it, your life will face grave consequences, most likely death.

I am not discussing extremists yet, e.g. taliban type of terrorists.

As for the relation between economics development and women's rights, I have mentioned there is no direct relation. Actually, your own example also said the same thing if you look at it carefully.

Saudi is among the richest, how is its women's rights? Among the bottom.

The rest is just so easy to see and I do not need to write more.

You are equating some intolerant variant of Islam and their derivative extremists (a small percentage of whom are violent "terrorists") within Islam with all of Islam and Muslim population of the world. Islam needs change and reform, like all other religions, no disagreement there and it will come with time, I am sure. Religious meme's need skillful management from the state or concerned states, otherwise they can easily go out of control, like they did due to Zbigniew Brzezinski's use of Saudi version of Islam as well as the violent extreme faction of Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood as a geopolitical tool in Afghan-Pakistan theater. This geopolitical blunder has a lot to do with the birth of "Islamic terror", Al Quaeda etc.

And women's right has a lot to do with economic development, just look at the map, but it has a lot do with pre-existing culture also. Kyrgyzstan is a poor Muslim country, a lot poorer than Saudi Arabia or Turkey, but due to its Mongol-like nomadic traditional culture, it has very high women's right, higher than almost all other Muslim countries, except Kazakhstan, another Mongol-like nomadic culture. Since Kazakh's have oil and other minerals and land for wheat production, their society is more advanced and as a result women have higher rights there. I have spent significant time in both countries.

 

[kalu_miah]

You are totally wrong here. Women are widely abused in muslim countries and women's rights are ignored in many ways in every muslim countries. The only difference is that certain countries ignore more and certain countries ignore less.

As for tolerance, none of the muslim countries have set up a good example. In other religions, you can convert to them and you can go away from them if you wish to do so. However, born in muslim families, you have to be a muslim, if you dare to go away from it, your life will face grave consequences, most likely death.

I am not discussing extremists yet, e.g. taliban type of terrorists.

As for the relation between economics development and women's rights, I have mentioned there is no direct relation. Actually, your own example also said the same thing if you look at it carefully.

Saudi is among the richest, how is its women's rights? Among the bottom.

The rest is just so easy to see and I do not need to write more.

You are entitled to your opinions. It shows the level of perception you have about the world around you. Hope a majority of Chinese are not like you, that will be a disaster for China.

 

[SinoChallenger]

ok I'll read when I have the time

But you know in the old thread "Thousands of Christians Pray for Democracy in China" I hate chrsitianism for many reason. polical ( Vatican, used by USA ( christian extremist ),..... ) , history / actuality, cultural identity, ....

don't generalize I can find defects in the population same in Latin American

The role of colonialism in the Catholic Church is a difficult subject. Remember the Catholic Church spans 2000 years of history. Since the Second Vatican Council, the Church has explicitly disavowed any form of colonialism including modern day cultural imperialism (by USA).

BBC NEWS | Europe | Pope warns of 'new colonialism'

 

[clmeta]

Should't you want Pakistan to learn a lesson?

Indians could learn from China how to treat their minorities

Forget 1971 and move on.

So when are you attacking your Muslim neighbor to save Indian culture?

You're freedom of thought has been crushed. Islam is a beautiful religion just as all other religions are. Islam is a true religion just as all other religions are. And Finally, "Sabka Malik ek Hai"; Not matter how you address him, he listens to prayers of the people of all religions.

It is said that," Truth Burns The Lie ", Islam is the most modern and the only true religion. So whn it's like this very natural that hindu's will be jelous afterall hinduism is nothing but full of lie.
About Nasara ( christians ) 's , totaly agree with u .Infact Isa(A.H) himself is one of Islams prophet.From Adam to Muhammad all the prophets teaches only one religion ; Islam.Which bgin its journey when adam ( a.h) arrives on earth and completed by our holy prophet muhammad (p.b.u.h)

mr.HZR2011 again proves that India & Indians are afraid of Islam & Muslim

 

[clmeta]

I just wanna add the Islamophobes thrive on examples like driving being banned for women, and girls schools being blown up in Pakistan.

Once China become a democratic country, which I believe it will become sooner or later, though not sure if it will be same version of democracy as the West, they will have freedom of religion, so people will have the right to choose and freely practice their religion. So there will be more Muslims, Christians, Falun Gong, Buddhist etc. Not sure how it can be controlled or kept limited in this situation.

By controlling its population China did a great service to humanity, and all the countries that are breeding like rabbits, including my own should learn from this example. We got too many damn people in this world, it is destroying our environment. I have no children and do not plan to have any, so I practice what I preach.

About Muslim women's rights, I was talking about Pork being not a very healthy food, but you brought up women's rights and class distinction among Muslims, so this was uncalled for to begin with, as I was not discussing those issues. Not sure about class distinctions, but women's rights is the most common accusations Islamophobes use to defame Islam, that is why I mentioned propaganda, as it is very common in current pop culture, thanks to Zionist run world main stream media.

There are women's rights issues in underdeveloped part of Muslim societies, just like any other underdeveloped societies, it more has to do with underdevelopment (not related to money, as even GCC countries I consider as underdeveloped even though they have oil money) and resulting backwardness of societies and its peoples. Why Muslim societies are backward, that goes into Muslim history, and its a long story. But I will just give you one example, before Afghanistan became the hell hole it is today, it used to be a relatively liberal place:
Once Upon a Time in Afghanistan

Guess what happened, it became a geopolitical football between, USA and Soviet Union and their junior partners, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the rest is history. Societies are fragile things and it is easy to destroy them, if one is not careful. In brief, Muslims due to their own fault, lost their empires and unity and others tore them apart like sharks or hyenas, and what you see today is the torn pieces and the resulting garbage they create.

I well mention a few other things, the US, the champion of women's and human rights, gave women the right to vote only in 1920, like many other Western countries, so changes happened in Western societies very recently.
Women's suffrage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Women's rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Also see:
Women in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also here is current women's status in the world:

It shows Iran and Turkey has the same situation as Bangladesh, Tajikistan, Egypt, Morocco and Algeria, while Tunisia, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Indonesia and Malaysia scored higher and Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan have the highest among Muslim majority countries.

Note that India, Thailand, Burma, many African and South American non-Muslim countries scored lower than some Muslim countries. Even Russia and Italy scored lower than Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan.

So bottom line is that many Muslim countries are in bad situation, but it more has to do with socio-economic backwardness than religion itself, while Islamophobe propaganda masters use these bad examples to show Islam in a bad light.