Islam didn't enter the present day subcontinent via Sindh (Mohammad bin Qasim) correcting history.

[Chhatrapati]

Islam as a religion, as in the earliest presence was in Kerala.

First mosque build in 629 AD by Hazrath Malik Ibn Deenar.

 

[El Sidd]

What a misleading thread !!

 

[takeiteasy]

From what I know interacting with Mappilas (yeah, you call them Malabari/Malwari), there seems to be really some differences that ruins a unity with the majority hanafi fiqh followers in India. These Muslims follow (70-80%) Shafi fiqh and that's uncommon in rest of the parts of India, Pakistan or Bangladesh, Srilanka etc. May be Malaysia/Indonesia follows this code. There are minority Hanafi Muslims in Kerala who are subdivided into Urdu speakers and Tamil Muslims (Thulukkar). They too visit Mappila masjid's. There are often small conflicts like when the Hanafis plant their mosque and separates. I understand that there are some differences in both fiqhs. May be that is why..

 

[Babur The Uzbek Tiger]

Maybe because they think it's the truth? Surely a religion, if true, wouldn't be restricted to a specific region or ethnic group?



Last time I checked Timur still ruled by Mongoloid Yassin laws, not to mention he attacked his fellow Muslims several times but allied himself with the Europeans. He also used black magic to curse his tomb.

He's pretty much a kaffir.



Sects are stupid, especially when all of them except for Sunni Islam are actually Muslims in a literal sense.



Even if it is true, it makes no damn difference because you won't remember your previous life. So you pretty much die.

Total bollocks is your understanding of the Timurids. Without Timur, you would pretty much still be a Hindu.

 

[khanmubashir]

isis terrorist uses terrorism as strategy to provoke west into war. it gives them justification for combative jihad. they want to gain control of levant that's all. why u dragging religion into it stop looking at everything through religion lenses. heck my maternal side is christian and paternal side is muslim and they have no problem getting along with each other both religions are beautiful in their own way if leave out the fanatics

This guy is most likely an anti islam troll faking to be ex Muslim to give weight to his baseless argument

You claim your self ex-muslim but you didn't know anything about Islam. Read Quran properly to understand Islam. You can't judge religion by people but what it is written in the book. I know you can come up with lame excuses or without proper reference big talk but i am ready for your every question to be answer with proper references, if you like

This guy is most likely an anti islam troll faking to be exMuslim to give weight to his baseless argument

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Total bollocks is your understanding of the Timurids. Without Timur, you would pretty much still be a Hindu.

There is a very large misconception that the modern-day region of Pakistan was predominantly Hindu before the arrival of Islam.

Secondly, Timur did not contribute much in the spread of Islam in this region. 95% of the populace of Pakistan can link their ancestral conversion to Sufis of whose shrines dot the region.

 

[Babur The Uzbek Tiger]

There is a very large misconception that the modern-day region of Pakistan was predominantly Hindu before the arrival of Islam.

Secondly, Timur did not contribute much in the spread of Islam in this region. 95% of the populace of Pakistan can link their ancestral conversion to Sufis of whose shrines dot the region.

What was the religion of modern day Pakistan before the arrival of Islam via the Arabs ? Please don't say Islam.

Second point: Timur did much to spread Islam and Turkic culture in the region. Babur was of his lineage. Without the Timurid Empire there would never have been a Mughal Empire. It might be very easy for some uneducated person from your neck of the woods to call Timur a kaffir, but spouting that kind of nonsense in the Turkic world would warrant a beating. Anywhere from Russia to Turkey. Just FYI

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

What was the religion of modern day Pakistan before the arrival of Islam via the Arabs ? Please don't say Islam.

Second point: Timur did much to spread Islam and Turkic culture in the region. Babur was of his lineage. Without the Timurid Empire there would never have been a Mughal Empire. It might be very easy for some uneducated person from your neck of the woods to call Timur a kaffir, but spouting that kind of nonsense in the Turkic world would warrant a beating. Anywhere from Russia to Turkey. Just FYI

Before islam... we had many.... buddhism, zoarastism,paganism perhaps... hinduism never got popular here...

I dont know about Timur, but Babur founder of mughal empire was hardly muslim... and by that time, Islam had already dominated this region for a long time.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

What was the religion of modern day Pakistan before the arrival of Islam via the Arabs ? Please don't say Islam.

Pakistan did not have a single or even majority religion before arrival of Islam. It was very religiously diverse, each tribe and clan could have their own 'religion'. Jatts for example practiced ancestor worship. Buddhism was the most dominant organized religion, "proto-Hinduism" was dominant among many clans and in many areas but "organized Hinduism" was primarily limited to caste/clan such as Brahmins and several cities such as Taxila.

Second point: Timur did much to spread Islam and Turkic culture in the region. Babur was of his lineage. Without the Timurid Empire there would never have been a Mughal Empire. It might be very easy for some uneducated person from your neck of the woods to call Timur a kaffir, but spouting that kind of nonsense in the Turkic world would warrant a beating. Anywhere from Russia to Turkey. Just FYI

People here don't really call Timur a Kafir, it's upto Allah to decide. But many of his actions were totally un-Islamic, he was responsible for killing out 5% of the world's population, most of whom were Muslim.

 

[Hamza913]

Total bollocks is your understanding of the Timurids. Without Timur, you would pretty much still be a Hindu.

Nope, my ancestors would have become Muslim mostly because of the Ghaznavids. Since my ancestry is a bit scattered I have more than just them to thank, but most of my ancestors likely embraced Islam because of the Ghaznavids. Not Tamerlane.

Tamerlane was an idiot, he only hurt the Islamic world by constantly invading other Muslim empires.

What was the religion of modern day Pakistan before the arrival of Islam via the Arabs ? Please don't say Islam.

Second point: Timur did much to spread Islam and Turkic culture in the region. Babur was of his lineage. Without the Timurid Empire there would never have been a Mughal Empire. It might be very easy for some uneducated person from your neck of the woods to call Timur a kaffir, but spouting that kind of nonsense in the Turkic world would warrant a beating. Anywhere from Russia to Turkey. Just FYI

We love Babur, he's pretty much a national hero.

But we don't like Tamerlane or Khan, and from what I recall neither did Babur.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

What a misleading thread !!

How chacha? atleast put something more than the complaining.Fix our version if we are in a fallacy.

 

[El Sidd]

How chacha? atleast put something more than the complaining.Fix our version if we are in a fallacy.

There is no point in discussing how Islam came to the sub continent. Islam is here now deal with it.

I do not like to go into the debate of Sword vs Qalam. Both have played their part in the eventual domination Islam enjoys over the region.

It is a socio-politico system. We micro manage the influence of Islam through the lens of our own narrow mindedness. We pick and choose our preference based on where the advantages lie. When it suits us, we present the koala hugging tree licking version and sometimes the Qasim version.

My question to you simply is and for the fact most other readers on the forum itself.

If Islam brought a major revolution in the social structure of the Arabic society why it has not till date done that in the sub continent? The people just modified their narrative to keep the old caste system alive in the region through 'islamic' interpretation.

Status quo has not changed in India ever since Mahabharata and it probably will never either.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

First mosque build in 629 AD by Hazrath Malik Ibn Deenar.
View attachment 438112

Do you really believe this structure was built back in the day?
What i know is Historians are not even sure about the exact spot of that mosque since it was a temporary place of worship for the Arab traders.Only the annals help them understand such thing existed..On ground this structure is only a symbolic means to make a claim to the first mosque in India. Its a claim..there were converted muslims all over the coast around that time and they were making congregational prayers so the claim of first mosque thing is highly dubious to begin with.

There is no point in discussing how Islam came to the sub continent. Islam is here now deal with it.

I do not like to go into the debate of Sword vs Qalam. Both have played their part in the eventual domination Islam enjoys over the region.

It is a socio-politico system. We micro manage the influence of Islam through the lens of our own narrow mindedness. We pick and choose our preference based on where the advantages lie. When it suits us, we present the koala hugging tree licking version and sometimes the Qasim version.

My question to you simply is and for the fact most other readers on the forum itself.

If Islam brought a major revolution in the social structure of the Arabic society why it has not till date done that in the sub continent? The people just modified their narrative to keep the old caste system alive in the region through 'islamic' interpretation.

Status quo has not changed in India ever since Mahabharata and it probably will never either.

The whole point of the thread was to correct the version of history we were taught since childhood.Some idiots here made it a kalam vs kaman debate. Its more of an academic thing than a 'need to know' question.Taking your point whats the point of digging the fossils and learning about the prehistoric man.So it was strictly supposed to be academic until the keralay jumped in.

Regarding your question, briefly i never expected Arabs to be a better role model for nonArabs even though thats where it all started.It doesnt give them any de facto representation of Islamic society just because they have the holy lands.The religion came in to fight many things among, the warped culture and its byproduct ethos were one of those things.Arabs lost their way .Everything has a life so do the revolutions, Mujadids come time to time but ultimately its the collective responsibility of the folks how they couldnt pick themselves up once and for all.One more thing, i think it was easier to bring a change back then,today there are much more distractions.Its also tougher to survive in todays world unlike that time.People tend to compromise on their principles thinking they have a right to survive or call it 'adapting to the human nature of survival'.So they gave in to the hardships over time over generations .

 

[Maarkhoor]

Islam did enter this subcontinent before Mohammed Bin Qasim even in early days of Islam, there is a mosque structure in India facing Qibla Awal but Islam got momentum after the successful military campaign of Mohammed Bin Qasim and later Sufis who came from Afghanistan, Central Asia and Iran who spread Islam every part of this region.

 

[Well.wisher]

I don't think it matters how Islam came here , we're Muslims now with the grace of Allah and it's all that matters . We should focus on being a great Muslim instead of debating how we became Muslims .
Remember , everything happens with will of Allah . Allah commanded it to be , therefore Islam is here . Now he wants you to strictly adhere to it and make yourself great . He left this at your free will so prove to your merciful Lord that you indeed worth this blessing called Islam .