What's new

Islam and Democracy in Indonesia : Tolerance without Liberalism

the title in this thread is misleading at best, without the progressive thinking of liberalism thought no one will have a perception as same as yours. The Indonesian founding father had been educated by the western thought of school who give them the feels and first hand experience about liberalism and plurality and people like Soekarno and Hatta giving more thought on the value liberalism and give the birth about Bhineka Tunggal Ika as our motto to match the ones the United States had "Pluribus et Unum".

I though that the writer relate the term Liberalism as Western Liberalism. The writer want to say that the ideas are actually coming from different source. He sees Muslim leaders and Islamist Movement in Indonesia as the major source for that tolerance to happen.

Islam itself has liberalism principle as well like you can see on freedom of religion, freedom of speech, civil right (including for the minority like Jews), democratic, free market, international cooperation (Muslim- China relation). Something that happen during prophet rule and the first four Caliph. See my post talking about Madinah Constitution. It is the pure Islam, not the Kingdoms period in Islam history where authoritarian and intolerance become the new normal for Muslim. Despite that, even during Kingdoms period there are always freedom of religion applied in the Muslim world.

Something too modern for Rome and Persian Empire at that time, even Western world just become civilized recently. But there are some "current" Western Liberalism idea that is not inline with Islam which is more related to moral.


Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.[1][2][3] Whereas classical liberalism emphasizes the role of liberty, social liberalism stresses the importance of equality.[4] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas and programs such as freedom of speech,freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free markets, civil rights, democratic societies, secular governments, and international cooperation.[5][6][7][8][9][10][11]

Liberalism first became a distinct political movement during the Age of Enlightenment, when it became popular among philosophersand economists in the Western world. Liberalism rejected the prevailing social and political norms of hereditary privilege, state religion, absolute monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The 17th-century philosopher John Locke is often credited with founding liberalism as a distinct philosophical tradition. Locke argued that each man has a natural right to life, liberty and property,[12] while adding that governments must not violate these rights based on the social contract. Liberals opposed traditional conservatism and sought to replace absolutism in government with representative democracy and the rule of law.
 
Last edited:
.
I do agree that islam in broader sense is pretty much 'liberal' and egalitarian. But this liberating light often hijacked by some radical groups and reduced into oppressing idiology.
 
Last edited:
.
I though that the writer relate the term Liberalism as Western Liberalism. The writer want to say that the ideas are actually coming from different source. He sees Muslim leaders and Islamist Movement in Indonesia as the major source for that tolerance to happen.

Islam itself has liberalism principle as well like you can see on freedom of religion, freedom of speech, civil right (including for the minority like Jews), democratic, free market, international cooperation (Muslim- China relation). Something that happen during prophet rule and the first four Caliph. See my post talking about Madinah Constitution. It is the pure Islam, not the Kingdoms period in Islam history where authoritarian and intolerance become the new normal for Muslim. Despite that, even during Kingdoms period there are always freedom of religion applied in the Muslim world.

Something too modern for Rome and Persian Empire at that time, even Western world just become civilized recently. But there are some "current" Western Liberalism idea that is not inline with Islam which is more related to moral.


Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Liberalism is a
political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.[1][2][3] Whereas classical liberalism emphasizes the role of liberty, social liberalism stresses the importance of equality.[4] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas and programs such as freedom of speech,freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free markets, civil rights, democratic societies, secular governments, and international cooperation.[5][6][7][8][9][10][11]

Liberalism first became a distinct political movement during the
Age of Enlightenment, when it became popular among philosophersand economists in the Western world. Liberalism rejected the prevailing social and political norms of hereditary privilege, state religion, absolute monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The 17th-century philosopher John Locke is often credited with founding liberalism as a distinct philosophical tradition. Locke argued that each man has a natural right to life, liberty and property,[12] while adding that governments must not violate these rights based on the social contract. Liberals opposed traditional conservatism and sought to replace absolutism in government with representative democracy and the rule of law.

Liberalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.[1][2][3] Whereas classical liberalism emphasizes the role of liberty, social liberalism stresses the importance of equality.[4] Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally they support ideas and programs such as freedom of speech,freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free markets, civil rights, democratic societies, secular governments, and international cooperation.[5][6][7][8][9][10][11]

Liberalism first became a distinct political movement during the Age of Enlightenment, when it became popular among philosophersand economists in the Western world. Liberalism rejected the prevailing social and political norms of hereditary privilege, state religion, absolute monarchy, and the Divine Right of Kings. The 17th-century philosopher John Locke is often credited with founding liberalism as a distinct philosophical tradition. Locke argued that each man has a natural right to life, liberty and property,[12] while adding that governments must not violate these rights based on the social contract. Liberals opposed traditional conservatism and sought to replace absolutism in government with representative democracy and the rule of law.

I think you might find that Indonesia has more in common with Western 'traditional conservatism' than with 'classical liberalism'. Tradition and Muslim views of natural law seem more compatible with Islamic societies than Lockien liberalism.

Being a conservative myself, I think all states need a democratic component of the consent of the governed but I am more concerned with the development of authentic republican institutions (Or of constitutional monarchy in countries where that applies.) than "democracy".

Traditionalist conservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
.
I think you might find that Indonesia has more in common with Western 'traditional conservatism' than with 'classical liberalism'. Tradition and Muslim views of natural law seem more compatible with Islamic societies than Lockien liberalism.

Being a conservative myself, I think all states need a democratic component of the consent of the governed but I am more concerned with the development of authentic republican institutions (Or of constitutional monarchy in countries where that applies.) than "democracy".

Traditionalist conservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually my major is in business, I am not really that knowledgeable about many Western concepts, only the major ones, so thanks for this new addition, I will try to learn more about it.

Talking about democracy in the Muslim world, I guess it is Indonesia who is really good in applying it, particularly after recent "move" made by Erdogan in Turkey that violates freedom of press there.

For me, my concern is more toward business people who can hijack democracy for their own interest. So how to make capitalism under control is my most concern, democracy should benefit the mass more than benefit some individuals.

Thats why I am a supporter of Independent Anti Corruption body in Indonesia (that will enable us to have better policy) and also more into socialism and government intervention like Keynesian in economics, beside a supporter of state owned enterprises. Something that has already been in our constitution actually. (UUD 1945, pasal 33). Despite that, I am still a supporter of capitalism as well but a controlled one.
 
Last edited:
.
To enrich the Thread, I want to introduce the teacher in Mecca who teach both Muhammadiyah and Nahdatul Ulama founders. He is not Arab but Indonesian in ethnicity.

Ahmad Khatib - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ahmad Khatib
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shaikh Ahmad Khatib al-Minangkabawi (1860 – 1916) was a Minangkabau Indonesian Islamic teacher. He was born in Koto Tuo, Ampek Angkek, Agam Regency, West Sumatra on 6 Dzulhijjah 1276 H (1860 M) and died in Mecca on 8 Jumadil Awal 1334 H (1916 M).[1] He served as the head (imam) of the Shafi'i school of law at the mosque of Mecca (Masjid al-Haram). Many Indonesian Islamic reformist leaders learned from him, including Ahmad Dahlan, as founder Muhammadiyah and Hasyim Asyari, as founderNahdlatul Ulama.[2]

Although Ahmad Khatib was an orthodox Sunni Muslim, he still hoped to reconcile the matrilineal system in Minangkabau with the laws of inheritance prescribed in the Quran. Through his Minangkabau students who studied in Mecca and well as those he taught in Indonesia, he encouraged a modified Minangkabau culture based on al-Quran and the Sunnah.

His eldest son Abdulkareem owned a book store in Makkah. His son Abdulmalik Alkhatib was an ambassador of the Ashraf to Egypt. His son, Sheikh Abdulhameed Alkhateeb, was the first Saudi Arabian ambassador to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. And his grand son, Fouad Abdulhameed Alkhateeb, was a Saudi Arabian ambassador, humanitarian, author, and businessman. In his capacity as a diplomat, he represented his homeland in Pakistan, Iraq, the United States of America, the Federal Republic of Nigeria, the Republic of Turkey, the People's Republic of Bangladesh, Nepal, and finally as Saudi ambassador to Malaysia.
 
.
@Indos @madokafc @pr1v4t33r

Hey guys...how do Indonesians generally see their country? You you guys see Indonesia as a Muslim country where Islam forms the basis of culture and lifestyle?

Or do you guys see Indonesia as completely secular/irreligious with Islam having no role in politics and public (like in Norway or France etc).

How do you guys see Indonesia generally?

Some input would be appreciated!
 
.
@Indos @madokafc @pr1v4t33r

Hey guys...how do Indonesians generally see their country? You you guys see Indonesia as a Muslim country where Islam forms the basis of culture and lifestyle?

Or do you guys see Indonesia as completely secular/irreligious with Islam having no role in politics and public (like in Norway or France etc).

How do you guys see Indonesia generally?

Some input would be appreciated!

In term of culture and lifestyle we are quite mix, it depends on the person. In general Muslim Indonesian are among the best in praying as pew research reveals and I have witness as well. Malay race (Sumatra/Kalimantan), Betawi race (Jakarta), Sunda (West Java) race are more Islamic than others that can be seen by their woman traditional dress. This region always support Islamist party since 1955.

(Our democracy actually is started at 1955 and then Soekarno abolished it, Soeharto democracy is also fake one, but in some degree become our basis for our real democracy, and 1999 election is prepared by parliament members and executive loyal to Soeharto in the past.)

Javanese is rather mix and Javanese living in the village is not that Islamic compared to Javanese living in the city. Some news report by CNN, Economist, and maybe Al-Jazeera tried to portray Indonesia through that region (some Javanese villages) which is misleading, and Javanese living in village are now becoming more religious as well as government or pious people there keep building mosque there

Islamist have always had a big role in Indonesia's politics as you can read from my previous post. The role was suppressed by Soekarno in 1960's and also suppressed by Soeharto until 1998. Despite that even during Soeharto regime, he give many leaders from HMI (Islamic Student Organisation/ HMI-university student) seats at Golkar party (the party set up by Soeharto). HMI is a very important force to topple Soekarno in 1965-1966 and side by side with Indonesian Army force to fight against Soekarno and communism. HMI leaders then started to become Golkar party leaders during 1990's. Soeharto during 1990s become more Islamic and his best man is Habibie, and Islamist leader who create ICMI

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More read for you

Muslim Students' Association (Indonesia) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Muslim Students' Association (Indonesia)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Islamic Students Association (Indonesian: Himpunan Mahasiswa Islam) (HMI) is an Indonesian organization that was founded in Yogyakarta on 5 February 1947 at the initiative of Lafran Pane with 14 students from the Institute of Islam in Yogyakarta (Indonesian: Sekolah Tinggi Islam Yogyakarta).

HMI is an independent organization with the objective of connecting academics, creators – servants of Islam, and taking responsibility for creating a just people blessed by Allah.

HMI DIPO
To stop HMI from being destroyed, the congress in Padang agreed that the only fundament of belief should be the Pancasila. The HMI which has its headquarters in Jalan Diponegoro is the only HMI that is recognized by the government, thus we can separate the HMI which is often called HMI DIPO from the Muslim Students' Association MPO. At the congress in Jambi in 1999, HMI returned to recognizing Islam as the main source of values.



Indonesian Association of Muslim Intellectuals
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Indonesian Association of Muslim Intellectuals (Indonesian: Ikatan Cendekiawan Muslim Indonesia, ICMI) is a Muslim organization in Indonesia. Founded in 1990 by Indonesian Secretary of Research and Technology B. J. Habibie, the organisation is committed to fight against poverty and improve education in Indonesia.

History
While most Indonesia Muslim politicians had supported the deposing of the Sukarno regime and the suppression of the Communist Party of Indonesia by Indonesian army chiefSuharto between 1965 and 1968, the latter suppressed Indonesia Muslim political activities. Suharto pursued a secular system of government, which along with the high-level appointment of Catholics and patronage of the ethnic Chinese community made Indonesia Muslim political groups a major part of opposition to his regime.

However, in the early 1990s, Suharto moved his public identity and government considerably towards Islam. Adopting the name Haji Mohammed Suharto, he undertook a hajjpilgrimage to Mecca, Saudi Arabia in 1991. In the prior year, Suharto had permitted the formation of the Indonesian Association of Indonesia Muslim Intellectuals under the influence of Bacharuddin Jusuf Habibie, a close adviser and then-minister of technology and research. As opposed to traditional Islamic organizations in Indonesia such as theNahdatul Ulama (NU), ICMI supported Suharto's regime in turn for considerable influence in policy-making and administration.

By 1994, ICMI had grown considerably, boasting as many as 20,000 members, who were largely Indonesia Muslim professionals, scientists, economists, educators and scholars. Habibie (who soon became Suharto's vice-president) served as ICMI's president while Indonesia Muslim scholars and political activists such as Imaduddin (who had been imprisoned by the Suharto regime in 1979) helped organize the body. Its prominent members also included Amien Rais, who would later become a major opponent of the Suharto regime and chief of Muhammadiyah, reputedly the largest Islamic organization in the world. While highly-influential during the Suharto era, ICMI lacked a grassroots organisation, public appeal or popular support. Consisting of elite intellectuals, ICMI's influence grew mainly with the patronage of Suharto and his political party, Golkar.

Influence in the Suharto regime
Under the patronage of B. J. Habibie, ICMI activists infiltrated the central government, being appointed to important posts within the civil service and central ministries. Opposed to the widespread economic and political influence of the Catholic and ethnic Chinese community, ICMI-affiliated officials ended government schemes that were seen as being mainly beneficial to Catholics and Chinese Indonesians. ICMI advocated the domination of Muslims in the ranks of government, civil services, police and military, industries and commerce and the relegation of ethnic and religious minorities to inferior ranks. ICMI also advocated the introduction of Sharia into the Indonesian legal and political system and oversaw the establishment of Islamic courts, an Islamic bank and the promotion of Islamic media.

Criticism
ICMI was criticized as being a lobby group used by Suharto's unpopular regime to shore up political support from Indonesia Muslims. It was also seen as devoted to the political advancement of B. J. Habibie, who was widely seen as the potential successor to Suharto. Its high-level involvement in the government was also criticized by mass Indonesia Muslim groups such as the NU and the Islamic Association of University Students (HMI) as being more concerned with political power than the advancement of Islamic objectives. ICMI's ranks were believed to be infiltrated by Islamists who sought to exercise political power through the Suharto regime and consequently it aroused considerable opposition amongst secular Indonesians and non- Indonesia Muslims.

Indonesian Association of Muslim Intellectuals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


2012 data

gsi-ch2-3.png


Commitment to Islam | Pew Research Center

Some of our famous artist using hijab, they uses later, just like many Indonesian woman are now using hijab, the numbers are increasing since 2000 as Islamic preaching is gaining momentum in democracy, which is also helped by TVs as Soeharto opens private enterprises to television business in 1990s, two private TV companies then set up by Soeharto son and daughter which is RCTI, SCTV, and TPI. The only private own broadcasting madia during 1990's.

Todays television companies owned by Muslim becomes popular as well like Trans TV, Trans 7 (entertainment), Metro TV, TV One, CNN Indonesia (news channel).
 
Last edited:
. .
:stop::fie: :fie: :fie::stop:

As a muslim from the east I'm offended by that claim.

sorry bro.......:D

Yup, people from Sulawesi is also Islamic but the other part is Christian, similar like NTB near Bali is also quite Islamic

Actually people from Sulawesi island, particularly Bugis tribe have produced many Indonesian Islamist leaders like :

BJ Habibie ( Technology Minister, VP in 90's, and Golkar party leader)

the-third-indonesian-president-bj-habibie-file-photo-_121212204837-833.jpg


Yusuf Kalla (VP 2004-2009, 2014-2019) Golkar party leader, entrepreneur

images


Fadel Muhammad (Minister under SBY administration and Golkar leader, entrepreneur)

fadel-muhammad-rev-1.jpg


Ilham Habibie (ICMI leader, entrepeneur)

images


Other prominent Islamist leader from East Indonesia region who has quite influential is Hamdan Zoelva, Chairman of Indonesia's Constitutional Court. He is one of prominent leader in Bulan Bintang party which is Islamist party. He is from Bima province.

hamdan-zoelva-lapindo.jpg


The Constitutional Court of the Republic of Indonesia (Indonesian: Mahkamah Konstitusi Republik Indonesia) was established as a consequence of the third amendment to the Constitution of Indonesia, ratified by the People's Consultative Assembly on 9 November 2001 [1]

Powers

The court has the same legal standing as the Supreme Court. Its powers, set out in article 24C of the Constitution, include the final say in reviewing laws concerning the Constitution, disputes over the authority of state institutions, the dissolution of political parties and disputes over election results. It also is obliged to rule on any attempt to impeach the president.

Its jurisdiction on the electoral disputes [6] was first limited to the five-yearly general elections (such as the 2004 and 2009 general elections). However, since 2009 the definition of general election has been broadened and includes the election of governors and regency heads (bupati). To date, of the five jurisdictions of the court, most cases handled have centred around issues of judicial review, disputed electoral results, and disputes between state institutions.


Constitutional Court of Indonesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The first Chairman of this body before is Jimly Assidiqie that now have become ICMI Chairman.
 
Last edited:
. .
sorry bro.......:D

Yup, people from Sulawesi is also Islamic but the other part is Christian, similar like NTB near Bali is also quite Islamic

Actually people from Sulawesi island, particularly Bugis tribe have produced many Indonesian Islamist leaders like :

BJ Habibie ( Technology Minister, VP in 90's, and Golkar party leader)

the-third-indonesian-president-bj-habibie-file-photo-_121212204837-833.jpg


Yusuf Kalla (VP 2004-2009, 2014-2019) Golkar party leader, entrepreneur

images


Fadel Muhammad (Minister under SBY administration and Golkar leader, entrepreneur)

fadel-muhammad-rev-1.jpg


Ilham Habibie (ICMI leader, entrepeneur)

images

Well, Sumatera also has non muslim tribes like Christian Bataks, Nias, and Mentawai.. I don't see much difference with Sulawesi in that regard.

In the east, - not just Sulawesi but Maluku (esp. North Maluku) as well, Islam has been rooting for centuries and remain alive and strong today, even stronger I may say.. Historically, there are many muslim figure from the east who have big contribution to Islam but most of them are hidden/excluded from our history book. like, for example :

- Sultan Baabullah of Ternate (1570-1583), a fiercely Islamic sultan who was the first native Nusantaran in history that achieved total victory over European powers and forced them to submit to his term. Powerful he was, Portuguese and Spain didn't dare to declare war on Ternate while he was still alive. The late Buya Hamka praised him greatly and said Baabullah's Jihad victory had delayed Western colonialism in Nusantara for a hundred year.

- Syeikh Yusuf al Makassari (1626–23 May 1699), an Ulama from Gowa, Makassar, a fighter and commander who lead the resistance against the Dutch VOC. After his defeat, he was exiled to South Africa where he established one of the earliest Islamic community in South Africa. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Yusuf

- Tuan Guru Prince Abdullah Kadi Abu Salaam (died early 19th century), an Ulama and a prince from Tidore. Like Syeikh Yusuf before him, he was also exiled by VOC to Cape, South Africa and incarcerated on Robben Island. Here Tuan Guru spent the next thirteen years of his life. Whilst on the island Tuan Guru wrote a book on Islamic Jurisprudence which became the main source of reference for the 19th century Cape Muslim community. It was completed in 1781 and written in Malayu and Portugese using Arabic script which was a common practice in the East Indian Archipelago in the 18th century. This book became an important source of Islam for Cape Muslims in the 19th century. While on Robben Island, he also wrote several copies of the Holy Qur’aan from memory, possibly the first Qur’aans in SA. Two are preserved up to today; one at Dorp Street Musjid, Bo-Kaap and the other with one of his descendants. > http://www.ciibroadcasting.com/2015/10/08/newly-named-cape-town-footbridge-remembers-tuan-guru/

There are still others.. Oh, and by the way, Fadel Muhammad is actually Ternatan, a Ternate-Arab mix who was happen to be elected as governor of Gorontalo, Sulawesi. He was selling bakery in Ternate in his youth.:-)

There's an old age stereotype in the west Indonesia that the east is a place of non-muslim majority. It is a mistake, a fallacy.

A good book which I recommend to read is Melawat Ke Timur - Menyusuri Semenanjung Raja-Raja
by Kardono Setyorakhmadi (2015).

The writer wrote the book based on his own experience doing travel-investigation in Maluku, North Maluku, and Papua about Islam there which he witnessed as a complete opposite to what people in western Indonesia generally believe all this time.

Here I quote a review of the book :

"Kawasan Indonesia Timur mendapat banyak stereotip. Umumnya dianggap sebagai non Islam. Padahal, di kawasan itu, Islam tumbuh dan berkembang dengan segala kekhasannya. Jika merunut ke belakang, ada empat Kerajaan Islam besar yakni Ternate, Tidore, Bacan, dan Jailolo.

Melalui lawatan ke daerah-daerah yang mempunyai ikatan dengan Islam di Maluku dan Papua, Kardono Setyorakhmadi mendapat kenyataan yang jauh berbeda. Ia melihat keberadaan Islam justru tumbuh berkembang sangat kuat. Sama seperti di Jawa, Islam di Indonesia Timur juga mengalami proses pembumian dengan pengetahuan dan kearifan masyarakat setempat sehingga menimbulkan ragam keunikan.

Di sana pula, ia menyaksikan tumbuh subur rasa saling menghargai, toleransi, dan belas kasih di antara pemeluk agama satu dan lainnya. Suatu praktek kehidupan beragama yang diidamkan terwujud. Buku ini penting bagi Anda yang mencintai Indonesia, dan masih punya harapan atas berlangsungnya keragaman di negeri ini."


In spite of the religious conflict years ago, both muslim and non muslim in the east are returning to, rebuilding, and reconnecting through old Adat system that has bind them for centuries. Religious tolerance has return to what it was. In fact, in his book, the writer -who a Javanese muslim himself- said religious tolerance in Java is lag behind and is still in "kanak-kanak" stage compare to religious tolerance in East Indonesia, today.
 
.
Well, Sumatera also has non muslim tribes like Christian Bataks, Nias, and Mentawai.. I don't see much difference with Sulawesi in that regard.

In the east, - not just Sulawesi but Maluku (esp. North Maluku) as well, Islam has been rooting for centuries and remain alive and strong today, even stronger I may say.. Historically, there are many muslim figure from the east who have big contribution to Islam but most of them are hidden/excluded from our history book. like, for example :

- Sultan Baabullah of Ternate (1570-1583), a fiercely Islamic sultan who was the first native Nusantaran in history that achieved total victory over European powers and forced them to submit to his term. Powerful he was, Portuguese and Spain didn't dare to declare war on Ternate while he was still alive. The late Buya Hamka praised him greatly and said Baabullah's Jihad victory had delayed Western colonialism in Nusantara for a hundred year.

- Syeikh Yusuf al Makassari (1626–23 May 1699), an Ulama from Gowa, Makassar, a fighter and commander who lead the resistance against the Dutch VOC. After his defeat, he was exiled to South Africa where he established one of the earliest Islamic community in South Africa. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Yusuf

- Tuan Guru Prince Abdullah Kadi Abu Salaam (died early 19th century), an Ulama and a prince from Tidore. Like Syeikh Yusuf before him, he was also exiled by VOC to Cape, South Africa and incarcerated on Robben Island. Here Tuan Guru spent the next thirteen years of his life. Whilst on the island Tuan Guru wrote a book on Islamic Jurisprudence which became the main source of reference for the 19th century Cape Muslim community. It was completed in 1781 and written in Malayu and Portugese using Arabic script which was a common practice in the East Indian Archipelago in the 18th century. This book became an important source of Islam for Cape Muslims in the 19th century. While on Robben Island, he also wrote several copies of the Holy Qur’aan from memory, possibly the first Qur’aans in SA. Two are preserved up to today; one at Dorp Street Musjid, Bo-Kaap and the other with one of his descendants. > http://www.ciibroadcasting.com/2015/10/08/newly-named-cape-town-footbridge-remembers-tuan-guru/

There are still others.. Oh, and by the way, Fadel Muhammad is actually Ternatan, a Ternate-Arab mix who was happen to be elected as governor of Gorontalo, Sulawesi. He was selling bakery in Ternate in his youth.:-)

There's an old age stereotype in the west Indonesia that the east is a place of non-muslim majority. It is a mistake, a fallacy.

A good book which I recommend to read is Melawat Ke Timur - Menyusuri Semenanjung Raja-Raja
by Kardono Setyorakhmadi (2015).

The writer wrote the book based on his own experience doing travel-investigation in Maluku, North Maluku, and Papua about Islam there which he witnessed as a complete opposite to what people in western Indonesia generally believe all this time.

Here I quote a review of the book :

"Kawasan Indonesia Timur mendapat banyak stereotip. Umumnya dianggap sebagai non Islam. Padahal, di kawasan itu, Islam tumbuh dan berkembang dengan segala kekhasannya. Jika merunut ke belakang, ada empat Kerajaan Islam besar yakni Ternate, Tidore, Bacan, dan Jailolo.

Melalui lawatan ke daerah-daerah yang mempunyai ikatan dengan Islam di Maluku dan Papua, Kardono Setyorakhmadi mendapat kenyataan yang jauh berbeda. Ia melihat keberadaan Islam justru tumbuh berkembang sangat kuat. Sama seperti di Jawa, Islam di Indonesia Timur juga mengalami proses pembumian dengan pengetahuan dan kearifan masyarakat setempat sehingga menimbulkan ragam keunikan.

Di sana pula, ia menyaksikan tumbuh subur rasa saling menghargai, toleransi, dan belas kasih di antara pemeluk agama satu dan lainnya. Suatu praktek kehidupan beragama yang diidamkan terwujud. Buku ini penting bagi Anda yang mencintai Indonesia, dan masih punya harapan atas berlangsungnya keragaman di negeri ini."


In spite of the religious conflict years ago, both muslim and non muslim in the east are returning to, rebuilding, and reconnecting through old Adat system that has bind them for centuries. Religious tolerance has return to what it was. In fact, in his book, the writer -who a Javanese muslim himself- said religious tolerance in Java is lag behind and is still in "kanak-kanak" stage compare to religious tolerance in East Indonesia, today.
Good explanation Bro.. :D we (as Javanese) should be more tolerance with non-Moslem like our "east Indonesia brother" like you...
 
.
Well, Sumatera also has non muslim tribes like Christian Bataks, Nias, and Mentawai.. I don't see much difference with Sulawesi in that regard.

In the east, - not just Sulawesi but Maluku (esp. North Maluku) as well, Islam has been rooting for centuries and remain alive and strong today, even stronger I may say.. Historically, there are many muslim figure from the east who have big contribution to Islam but most of them are hidden/excluded from our history book. like, for example :

- Sultan Baabullah of Ternate (1570-1583), a fiercely Islamic sultan who was the first native Nusantaran in history that achieved total victory over European powers and forced them to submit to his term. Powerful he was, Portuguese and Spain didn't dare to declare war on Ternate while he was still alive. The late Buya Hamka praised him greatly and said Baabullah's Jihad victory had delayed Western colonialism in Nusantara for a hundred year.

- Syeikh Yusuf al Makassari (1626–23 May 1699), an Ulama from Gowa, Makassar, a fighter and commander who lead the resistance against the Dutch VOC. After his defeat, he was exiled to South Africa where he established one of the earliest Islamic community in South Africa. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Yusuf

- Tuan Guru Prince Abdullah Kadi Abu Salaam (died early 19th century), an Ulama and a prince from Tidore. Like Syeikh Yusuf before him, he was also exiled by VOC to Cape, South Africa and incarcerated on Robben Island. Here Tuan Guru spent the next thirteen years of his life. Whilst on the island Tuan Guru wrote a book on Islamic Jurisprudence which became the main source of reference for the 19th century Cape Muslim community. It was completed in 1781 and written in Malayu and Portugese using Arabic script which was a common practice in the East Indian Archipelago in the 18th century. This book became an important source of Islam for Cape Muslims in the 19th century. While on Robben Island, he also wrote several copies of the Holy Qur’aan from memory, possibly the first Qur’aans in SA. Two are preserved up to today; one at Dorp Street Musjid, Bo-Kaap and the other with one of his descendants. > http://www.ciibroadcasting.com/2015/10/08/newly-named-cape-town-footbridge-remembers-tuan-guru/

There are still others.. Oh, and by the way, Fadel Muhammad is actually Ternatan, a Ternate-Arab mix who was happen to be elected as governor of Gorontalo, Sulawesi. He was selling bakery in Ternate in his youth.:-)

There's an old age stereotype in the west Indonesia that the east is a place of non-muslim majority. It is a mistake, a fallacy.

A good book which I recommend to read is Melawat Ke Timur - Menyusuri Semenanjung Raja-Raja
by Kardono Setyorakhmadi (2015).

The writer wrote the book based on his own experience doing travel-investigation in Maluku, North Maluku, and Papua about Islam there which he witnessed as a complete opposite to what people in western Indonesia generally believe all this time.

Here I quote a review of the book :

"Kawasan Indonesia Timur mendapat banyak stereotip. Umumnya dianggap sebagai non Islam. Padahal, di kawasan itu, Islam tumbuh dan berkembang dengan segala kekhasannya. Jika merunut ke belakang, ada empat Kerajaan Islam besar yakni Ternate, Tidore, Bacan, dan Jailolo.

Melalui lawatan ke daerah-daerah yang mempunyai ikatan dengan Islam di Maluku dan Papua, Kardono Setyorakhmadi mendapat kenyataan yang jauh berbeda. Ia melihat keberadaan Islam justru tumbuh berkembang sangat kuat. Sama seperti di Jawa, Islam di Indonesia Timur juga mengalami proses pembumian dengan pengetahuan dan kearifan masyarakat setempat sehingga menimbulkan ragam keunikan.

Di sana pula, ia menyaksikan tumbuh subur rasa saling menghargai, toleransi, dan belas kasih di antara pemeluk agama satu dan lainnya. Suatu praktek kehidupan beragama yang diidamkan terwujud. Buku ini penting bagi Anda yang mencintai Indonesia, dan masih punya harapan atas berlangsungnya keragaman di negeri ini."


In spite of the religious conflict years ago, both muslim and non muslim in the east are returning to, rebuilding, and reconnecting through old Adat system that has bind them for centuries. Religious tolerance has return to what it was. In fact, in his book, the writer -who a Javanese muslim himself- said religious tolerance in Java is lag behind and is still in "kanak-kanak" stage compare to religious tolerance in East Indonesia, today.

Yup, I know East Indonesian has many Muslim as well, actually I am just in a rush in writing that post.....:ashamed:

Even Papuan in the coast line are Muslims.

Thanks for the info mate, Indonesia is blessed to have so many races and tribes that have glorious moment in the past. Sumatran with Srivijaya Kingdom and Javanese with Majapahit Kingdom. And now I got information about East Indonesian glorious moment (actually all Indonesian know it already for Ternate part....) and huge contribution in the past for Nusantara (Indonesia name according to Indonesian). Good DNA we get here, AlhamduliLLAH.

I also just found that Sulu Sultanate was actually founded by Minang Kabau people (West Sumatra)....so we can claim Sabah as well.......... :sarcastic:

Beside that the first President of Singapore, Yusof bin Ishak, and the first Supreme Head of State or Yang di-Pertuan Agong of Malaysia, Tuanku Abdul Rahman was a Minang ethnic originated from West Sumatra, Indonesia.........:ph34r:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minangkabau_people

" Historically, Minangs had also settled outside West Sumatra, migrating as far as the south Philippines by the 14th century. Raja Bagindo was the leader of the forming polity in Sulu, Philippines, which later turned into the Sultanate of Sulu.[43] The Minangkabaus migrated to the Malay peninsula in the 14th century and began to take control of the local politics. In 1773 Raja Melewar was appointed the first head of state of Negeri Sembilan."
 
.
@Indos @madokafc @pr1v4t33r

Hey guys...how do Indonesians generally see their country? You you guys see Indonesia as a Muslim country where Islam forms the basis of culture and lifestyle?

Or do you guys see Indonesia as completely secular/irreligious with Islam having no role in politics and public (like in Norway or France etc).

How do you guys see Indonesia generally?

Some input would be appreciated!

Indonesia had more conservative value, in line with older form of Liberalism, but with more touch on Nationalistic and Religious value
 
.
@Indos @madokafc @pr1v4t33r

Hey guys...how do Indonesians generally see their country? You you guys see Indonesia as a Muslim country where Islam forms the basis of culture and lifestyle?

Or do you guys see Indonesia as completely secular/irreligious with Islam having no role in politics and public (like in Norway or France etc).

How do you guys see Indonesia generally?

Some input would be appreciated!

nope, indonesia is not a muslim country. it's just a muslim majority. that is why we don't have and we don't need Shariah Law that is needed to become a muslim country, except the province of Aceh. firstly, i do not think islam is our culture of lifestyle. we started as Animist, then become Hindu, Buddha comes later, and the rest of them. we still have the mega Buddha temple Borobudur and lots of Ancient Hindu temples around too. in fact, a Giant Jesus statue were recently built too.

JesusStatue_narrowweb__300x398,0.jpg



indonesia is much more secular than, for example, it's neighbour Malasia. one can compare the contrast in both countries as an example. while both countries has their own Hindu origin, it seems like the Malasian does not fond of them. i cannot post links yet, although you can google how Malasland destroys their Hindu heritages.

well that is all. if you wanted to see how an islam country works in SEA, please look at Malasia.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom