ISI has taken over GHQ

[Areesh]

Only Idiots will believe what the Chief Idiot (Najam Sethi ) says , Every one know that guys gets his Salary from USA , but you people just want to blame others instead of doing something themselves .

Well they aren't that idiots to be honest. Joining this ISI bashing, Pakistan bashing liberal fascists bandwagon. You look all cool and modern and burger. Not to forget all those hot chicks who are also followers of this clan. You can become famous among them too. Some big benefit.

 

[53fd]

I have been and will continue to do so. In my opinion the Army and ISI are indeed holding themselves to some (not full) account to the SC, but I don't see submission to the legislature.

The legislature formulates the laws, the judiciary implements them. If the ISI is not abiding by the laws, they will have to submit themselves/be accountable to the judiciary, not the legislature.

How many times have the U.S. and India heard the line, especially after 26/11, that proof of Pakistanis committing terrorism or ISI violations of international law must come from foreign sources rather than Pakistan digging it up itself?

There is no substantiated proof of ISI involvement in 26/11, or for anything in that matter. When the substantiated proof comes rather than the mere claims, things will be different for the ISI.

Save in self-defense, such authority comes from the president (an order to assassinate an American has only come once in this presidency that I know of, I wonder if there have been others?) That's a far cry from "full impunity".

Two things. As per the US constitution, even the US president does not have the right to authorize the killing of a US citizen, forget any other agency. The US security establishment gets "extensive powers" beyond its realm in the matters of national security.

The attorney general is the nominated by the president and confirmed by the senate; both president and attorney general are subject to impeachment by Congress for "treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors." The checks and balances of democratic oversight are thus met. (Note that I am not a fan of this attorney general and think his impeachment or resignation would not be a bad thing at all.)

Just like the War Powers Resolution stated, the US President needed to get authorization from the Congress to go to war abroad, or without the Congress's approval only if there was a imminent existential threat to US national security coming from abroad. In the second situation, the US government needed to prove without doubt that the threat of this magnitude actually existed, & needed to be exterminated. They failed to prove that for Iraq in 2003, which is why they bypassed the US Congress (& the US constitution), going to the UN for their approval, which (going to war like this) is illegal as per US law.

 

[Always Neutral]

It's not an apology, national security trumps all. I have given very valid examples of free, democratic nations such as the US & UK where they have stringent anti-terrorism laws, and these do not fall under the jurisdiction of the judiciary.

The British judiciary reacted to the GCHQ case. Where Lords Fraser, Scarman and Diplock all believed that the issue of national security was outside the remit of the courts, Scarman writing that "It is par excellence a non-justiciable question. The judicial process is totally inept [sic] to deal with the sort of problems which it [national security] involves."

I know Indians would want anything that would weaken the security establishment of Pakistan, even being sympathetic to terrorists, or covering themselves in the garb of "human rights violations", but sorry, that is not going to happen.

What utter crap! The GCHQ case was that GCHQ employees were restricted from forming a union by a civilian Govt of that day. The Court thew out this order as the employees were not consulted. The High Court refused to intervene but the House of Lords said while they could review decisions but in matters of National Security it was the PEROGATIVE of THE CIVILIAN Govt. to decide.

We all know when the civilian Govt decided to put ISI under the Home Ministry what the Army did.

Love how people quote Lord Diplock a great Judge to justify crap.

 

[mdcp]

Our armed forces are too much over rated, thre should be some one to look after, these generals are just looking for dollars and salute
We should modernise our forces. And during peace we should use them as police so atleast can have better security rather than generals enjoying and soldiers sleeping
Welldone ISI if it is true

 

[lem34]

What utter crap! The GCHQ case was that GCHQ employees were restricted from forming a union by a civilian Govt of that day. The Court thew out this order as the employees were not consulted. The High Court refused to intervene but the House of Lords said while they could review decisions but in matters of National Security it was the PEROGATIVE of THE CIVILIAN Govt. to decide.

We all know when the civilian Govt decided to put ISI under the Home Ministry what the Army did.

Love how people quote Lord Diplock a great Judge to justify crap.

So what does this mean?? The judicial process is totally inept [sic] to deal with the sort of problems which it [national security] involves."

In any event we are going a bit off topic here. the discussion is supposed to be about ISI take over of GHQ. Which seems a bit of a silly statement when Army officers are appointed as officers of ISI

 

[Albatross]

ISI indeed is a very important arm of not only our country but of army as well and I am sure after years of experience in field they are quite handy today..people giving example of the failures like mehran base attack etc should visualize for a moment the gravity of situation had there been no ISI , I am sure no of attacks would have been manifolds more and even deadlier ..

Regarding some generals making money well thats fine when you swim your clothes do get wet but atleast those generals made russians quit ...

Indians here comes and cry about democracy and accountability well first of all there is no such thing as democracy in Islam ,infact to be honest if its given in our hands to choose our leaders we will choose someone who benefits us in worldly terms more so we can never choose a right man , I feel its upto Allah almighty and he as he said will impose a leader on a nation according to that nations deeds and we being pakistani of today very rightly deserve a moron like zardari...

Coming to thread though ISI can never take GHQ as there is a complete command and control system but even if they have increasing say in defence matters I feel it makes sense as they are the one's who have the first hand knowledge of who is creating unrest in balochistan, who is arming these so called TTP fighters and yes indeed why this zardari goes to dubai every other week and who are his handlers whom he meet there...

 

[Always Neutral]

So what does this mean?? The judicial process is totally inept [sic] to deal with the sort of problems which it [national security] involves."

In any event we are going a bit off topic here. the discussion is supposed to be about ISI take over of GHQ. Which seems a bit of a silly statement when Army officers are appointed as officers of ISI

It is simple to understand if you live in a democracy. If the parliament decides that certain personal rights can be restricted for people who work in the field of National Security, than the Parliament has the right to do so as long as the basic rights of re-dressal of employees are protected. Forming a union is not one of them.

Have you read the PA Act. Its states the same i.e. you cannot talk to the press without permission, make unions etc. End of the day the Parliament is Supreme when it comes to National Security and not the Army as in your case. Lord Diplock is a very Just Lord and a Legend but please don't misquote him here. Kayani and Gen M would be in jail if they were tried in front of Bench headed by him. Not many people know Diplock was a minority in this judgment on substance but the bench agreed on the end result, i.e a civil Govt. had the right to make laws on National Security. We all know who runs ISI?

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

Somebody should inform this MORON Najam Sethi that ISI has been manned by officers from Pakistan Armed Forces since its inception. These officers are sent to ISI on three year rotation and end back in their units. This has been the modus operandi since the inception of ISI. This traitor is a paid agent of foreign countries.

Quit posting BS articles by enemies of Pakistan.

bro. you've just stolen the talk of my mouth ...

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

Even inside the US, although the Army is subservient to a "civilian authority", the military commanders are not necessarily in line with their approach to the government. Likewise, there are certain "rifts" between the Army & the government in Pakistan from time to time (a bit similar to the US), but contrary to common perception, the security establishment (Army & ISI) has always been accountable to the highest authority in Pakistan (a civilian authority): the Supreme Court.

Even inside the CIA, as the appointment of General Petraeus as the CIA chief has shown, there is an increased militarization in their intelligence agency, and much closer links formed between the security apparatus/establishment (the military & the intelligence agency), just like the ISI. So what is happening in Pakistan is not uncommon.

Intelligence agencies, in the matters of highest national security, are given leeway in terms of accountability from the judiciary; even though they are a civilian outfit. National security trumps all. In Pakistan unlike the US, the security apparatus/establishment (ISI/Army) are much more accountable to the judiciary because of poor anti-terrorism laws enacted by the legislature, and the poor implementation of these laws by the judiciary. In the US, because of strong anti-terrorism laws, the security establishment (CIA, US military) has much more control and authority (and leeway) of the affairs of the US, than the Pakistan security establishment has inside Pakistan. Because of the poor enactment & implementation of anti-terrorism laws inside Pakistan (the fault of the legislature & the judiciary), some of the actions of the ISI might fall out of the realm of legality; whereas in the US, because of strong enactment & implementation of anti-terrorism laws, the CIA enjoys more control, authority, leeway of the affairs of the US than the ISI for Pakistan, but they fall in the realm of legality.

So the end fault again lies with the civilian establishment.

bro. , no one here on the entire forum could have explained this complicated security stuation in PakisTan better than what you have done right now ...


and i think that we here should also appreciate and learn from a few wise guys like you how to convey your case and how to put forward your point-of-view backed by logic and reasons ...

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

If your Intelligence agency is influencing major decisions then warning bells are ringing.

man , just stay out of our internal affairs you don't even know a jack about what our PakisTan 's 1.s.1. is and what it does ... dont burden your brain and leave this discussion to PakisTanis only ...

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

Yeah Najam Sethi is a A#sho#e

this najam sethi is an unpaid bicth spreading sick phuck live on tv ... i am waiting for that moment when i'll make him get drilled deep by a big-dong donkey (and that too without 'safety' ) whenever i get that lucky chance in my life ...

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

Pakistanis need to strap a PATTA round the neck of this rouge organisation , they need to be deciplined by parliamentarians and if civilian master orders are not followed by these thugs than courts should punish them.

Chaand pay thuuko gay tou apna hi muu ganda hoga ...

PakisTan 's 1.s.1. , i Love you ...

 

[ejaz007]

Pakistan’s Intelligence Agency Gets New Director



ISLAMABAD — Pakistan’s premier intelligence agency, the Directorate for Inter Service Intelligence (ISI), received a new director general today when Lt. Gen. Zaheer-ul-Islam took over from the retiring incumbent, Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha.

Analysts have welcomed the move and believe he is an experienced and capable man able to get to grips with the problems facing the agency.

Having met Lt. Gen. Zaheer-ul-Islam, analyst Brian Cloughley considers him “one of the batch of seven outstanding lieutenant generals of his seniority now serving,” with the Pakistan Army.

“My own summation of him is that he is an uncomplicated, down-to-earth, highly intelligent officer who will serve his country well as DG ISI”, said Cloughley, a former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad.

Haris Khan, an analyst with the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank, believes the new director general’s previous experience will stand him in good stead in his new position.

“[He] commanded a division in Murree as a major general. He was then promoted to the rank of lieutenant general and was posted to Karachi as the commander of 5 Corp”, said Khan.

Karachi-based 5 Corp takes in the southern desert sector bordering India, where considerable armored warfare would be expected to take place in the event of another Indo-Pakistani war.

Khan also highlighted that Zaheer-ul-Islam has already served as the deputy director general of the ISI between 2007 and 2008, when he was the director general internal security and counter intelligence (DG-ISCI).

“He was responsible for law and order, coordination with law-enforcement agencies, supporting counter-terrorism operations and preventing the penetration of extremist elements into the armed forces. He was also responsible for handling internal security situations like the violent nationalist movement in Baluchistan province and the ethno-sectarian strife in Karachi.”

Khan believes he has the confidence and support of the three most powerful men in the country, the Parvez Kayani — chief of the Army —the president and the prime minister.

He also believes that the ISI actually needed a change in command due to the events of the last 10 months.

This period had seen the then DG ISI embroiled not only in the aftermath of the May 2011 raid that killed Osama bin Laden, but Pasha’s apparent meeting with Mansoor Ijaz, the man suspected of soliciting help from the U.S. military to remove the current Kayani on behalf of the President.

A major challenge for the new director general will be on the civilian domestic front, Cloughley said.

“One challenge will be to counter the anti-ISI campaign that is being waged by the media — backed by some high-level politicians … to make it clear that the ISI has withdrawn from political meddling,” said Cloughley.

Khan agreed with this assessment, saying: “Besides clearing negative perceptions and creating a new image for the agency, he will have to take drastic steps to turn ISI into a non-political, purely professional and law abiding agency.”

The politicized and newly pro-active judiciary will pose a problem for Zaheer-ul-Islam, said Cloughley, but added he doesn’t see any major problems.

Zaheer-ul-Islam’s main challenge, however, will be to maintain links with the Taliban and to convince them that they can contribute peacefully to Pakistan and Afghanistan, said Cloughley.

Linked to this of course is the relationship with the U.S.

Cloughley said he thinks the U.S.-Pakistan relationship is “so badly damaged … that the only way must be upward.”

Despite Zaheer-ul-Islam having undergone a training exchange in the U.S., Cloughley said he doesn’t think the lieutenant general will be automatically disposed towards the U.S.

Drastic changes for the ISI are not expected by Zaheer-ul-Islam’s ascension.

“The role of the ISI does not necessarily depend on an individual, but it’s a policy that is designed primarily by the army chief. There will be continuity of the present policies”, said Khan.


Pakistan’s Intelligence Agency Gets New Director | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[Mav3rick]

I personally think that the role of ISI must be expanded, ISI must be tasked with the safety of Pakistan and of Pakistanis with whatever means necessary. And it must be headed by reasonable, intelligent and adapting officers.

 

[I M Sikander]

I guess ISI is doing excellent job to control both the GHQ and the civilian govt.....

Typical non sense reply we normally get from any fan boy of men in uniform.
In that case, let ISI chief be the president, Prime minister and chief justice and COAS of Pakistan until his death. ISI is not supposed to control the civilian government or take control of GHQ.

I guess ISI shold have full immunity to kill anybody a threat to our country and humanity........

Your Draculian nature is disgusting. WHy you are so thirsty for the blood.
By way men in uniform, ISI and MI already enjoying this immunity and license to kill killing people in the name of National interest.


Saleem shehzad, Akbar Bughti, Red mosque students, common baloch and many other are just few example of the killing immunity our ISI and MI enjoying.

I personally think that the role of ISI must be expanded, ISI must be tasked with the safety of Pakistan and of Pakistanis with whatever means necessary. And it must be headed by reasonable, intelligent and adapting officers.

ISI already have these responsibilities, now it all about setting the priorities right.