ISI denies any links to the attack on journalist Asad Toor

[Patriot forever]

No serious person, not even a slightly and remotely lucid thinker would use this as a defence for the illegal kidnap and detention of an IG at the hands of another security agency. Your personal opinion does not matter, the law is clear.

We all respect the nation, and the founder of the nation on this forum. Nobody has a monopoly on patriotism.


Fair enough, I'll concede this point to you. But I reserve my opinion on the excesses of the security establishment.

Everyone who has any power abuses it. The constitution is just a piece of paper which everyone extracts from whatever suits their agenda and tramples the rest. Given the amount of power our defense institutions, they are the most restrained as well. If they ever crossed the line its because the system was unable to protect the interests of state.

These agenda driven presstitutes orchestrated and launched a concentrated organized attack on security institutions just last month by deliberately blaming them for London drama speaks volume of their intention. Who will answer for that? make them accountable and you will see the ranting of freedom of expression. If the system does not hold them accountable or its being manipulated to protect such elements, than I fully endorse crossing the line and open bullet remedy to get rid of the poison infesting our country.
The exact same 6-10 main so called senior journalists are at it again, the award winning champions of freedom of expression.

 

[RescueRanger]

“shooting oneself in the foot”.

I won’t argue with this. Sadly when you have an organisation as large as the Pakistan Army you have nepotism, oleaginous sycophants and it becomes somewhat of an old boys club.

I come from a military family, and have seen both the good and the bad, the rotten apples don’t fall far from the tree and in the words of my grand uncle who was given the SJ for his actions on BRB Canal “civil or military, corruption converges at the same apex”.

Introspection and change is necessary but so is balance. It will not be something you or I will see anytime soon.

 

[Sine Nomine]

It was always an unsustainable system designed by the elite for the elite - who have the Golden parachutes ready for themselves. May Allah have mercy for Pakistan in the next ten years.

I am in South West of country,state for most part just exists in books.
It's like middle class is serving Pakistan and Pakistan is serving them(Elites).Our only hope is West putting tough sanctions on those who earn here and spend there.Only this would make them to do something for Pakistan.

For those of us lucky to escape - the new country is the identity now and it is time to simply accept that reality.

They should thank Almighty a millions time and put their efforts in serving new homeland.

 

[Mav3rick]

So many pages and all I see is Pakistanis fighting against other Pakistanis defending state institutions or Journalists.

But I have a few questions for those who are defending the Journalists:

1. Are they absolutely reliable?
2. Is their integrity beyond suspicion and absolute?
3. Are they always working on Pakistani agenda or do they at times work either for political purposes or for their own purposes??
4. Has there been a past tarnished with reports of unethical activities?
5. Has there been a past where legal mandate has been crossed without remorse or accountability?

And afterwards, I put the exact same questions to those who are thinking they are defending state institutions. The same could be asked of many other institutions in the country. Do state institutions really need protection or should their acts be sufficient to provide protection and honor and should all actions by those who are connected with state institutions be protected and defended??

Finally, we all need to ask, are we really defending Pakistan? If so is the case, why is Pakistan in this miserable state today? Whom should be blame for what is and whom should we blame for what could have been?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Unfortunately - due to the involvement of the mentioned agency in such acts in the past it is possible to now accuse it of such and no way to know if true or staged.

Usual suspects comes into play

Agree, we can't be sure if this guy is lying. But for the security establishment, it's might now be a case of the boy who's been decried wolf too many times.

Everyone who has any power abuses it. The constitution is just a piece of paper which everyone extracts from whatever suits their agenda and tramples the rest. Given the amount of power our defense institutions, they are the most restrained as well. If they ever crossed the line its because the system was unable to protect the interests of state.

These agenda driven presstitutes orchestrated and launched a concentrated organized attack on security institutions just last month by deliberately blaming them for London drama speaks volume of their intention. Who will answer for that? make them accountable and you will see the ranting of freedom of expression.
The exact same 6-10 main so called senior journalists are at it again, the award winning champions of freedom of expression.

Frankly, I don't agree with this idea that all power is rife with abuse and that we should live with it, this is not the way I see things. And on the constitution, it's not just a piece of paper, it's literally the essence of statecraft.

A country which can't enforce or abide by a well managed constitution is one which will fail in everything else. Including other parts of rule of law, corruption, development, economic prosperity etc.

And as for the London drama you speak of, I hadn't heard of it until you mentioned it some quotes ago. IMO if the media did do that, then there's a very simple avenue that the security establishment can take to correct this and bring them to account. Defamation is defined in our penal code, and it probably has been applied in the past. (Maybe @saiyan0321 knows of a case?) But something makes me think, that in some cases where media has criticised them, that generals won't want to debase themselves to stand before a civilian court, or give recorded statements that might uncover things which they may try to hide as OSA, or things which are actually just proof of their own excesses.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Agreed and I will just leave this here:
View attachment 749262

I don't agree with her,State of Pakistan is only going to collapse under it's own weight,state is a machine in which all of it's parts have to do their part for smooth functioning,PA is just one big chunk.
Army can only collapse after a defeat which won't happen because we want peace.Army isn't going to fight anyone no matter what and WMD's ensure that no state is going to fight Pakistan using military.

 

[Sinnerman108]

There is no due process in Pakistan that would see an officer serving in the army brought before a court for violating press freedom, or ordering something shitty and illegal. Thus no proof of any wrong doing, no judgement in favour of accusers, only their stories, of which there are many. Only two years ago did we finally accept the obvious that a dictator's coup and subsequent actions were high treason by definition, even that battle hasn't ended yet.

There is no due process in qualifying who is a journalist and what journalism is.
Anyone who is too dumb to make it to engineering, medical, business colleges,
goes for Media studies and then becomes a journalist with little training.

As for rules, each and every TV news channel etc are making money / minute for the content they gather for free from all over the place. So what is the punishment for publishing inaccurate reports ?

 

[SQ8]

I won’t argue with this. Sadly when you have an organisation as large as the Pakistan Army you have nepotism, oleaginous sycophants and it becomes somewhat of an old boys club.

I come from a military family, and have seen both the good and the bad, the rotten apples don’t fall far from the tree and in the words of my grand uncle who was given the SJ for his actions on BRB Canal “civil or military, corruption converges at the same apex”.

Introspection and change is necessary but so is balance. It will not be something you or I will see anytime soon.

The only way that gets achieved is if they have civilian oversight through intellectual peers. The problem is that no politician(barring Bhutto or BB at the start) has been considered an intellectual peer due to true lack of intellect or disdain from the military. I hate quoting this but the “gods gift to earth” mentality (which is a more broader Pakistani disease) is a major contributor to this malaise.

On the topic of journalism there are plenty of “planted” stories and sell-outs but unfortunately trying to use a blunt tool to solve cancer is a failure of the military in general. The Israel-Palestinian events recently are the greatest example of where the right tools worked. The rockets from hamas were absolutely useless but the social media posts did more damage to the Israelis than any rocket barrage.

If there is drama and fraud in Journalism and there is, plenty of avenues to expose and show through proper intelligence. But as Gen Durrani put it so clearly, the ISI is absolutely inept at managing internal affairs due to military men leading it.

 

[Riz]

If Toor thinks that his story will be buried like people forgot Taha, Absar Drama; no it wouldn't. The matter will go legal and many are going to be exposed. Only shameless bunch wouldn't apologize for lies & hypocrisy.

If these kanjar would again escaped unpunished then i would definitely send bangles to Rawalpindi boys through TCS , My blood boiling like Tandoori Tea whenever i saw these Geo scumbags tola on TV , where is Supreme Court because now they are abusing 71 constituents, they are abusing our institutions & security forces , when this shit will end ??

 

[RescueRanger]

The only way that gets achieved is if they have civilian oversight through intellectual peers. The problem is that no politician(barring Bhutto or BB at the start) has been considered an intellectual peer due to true lack of intellect or disdain from the military. I hate quoting this but the “gods gift to earth” mentality (which is a more broader Pakistani disease) is a major contributor to this malaise.

On the topic of journalism there are plenty of “planted” stories and sell-outs but unfortunately trying to use a blunt tool to solve cancer is a failure of the military in general. The Israel-Palestinian events recently are the greatest example of where the right tools worked. The rockets from hamas were absolutely useless but the social media posts did more damage to the Israelis than any rocket barrage.

If there is drama and fraud in Journalism and there is, plenty of avenues to expose and show through proper intelligence. But as Gen Durrani put it so clearly, the ISI is absolutely inept at managing internal affairs due to military men leading it.

I would agree with this, but this is where the problem starts, without “buy in” we are stuck at the start of the gameboard no matter the number on the rolled dice.

And thus we find ourselves at this malaise. Ultimately, none of us here are privy to the full facts behind this sordid affair and we could spent a lot of time arguing merits and demerits but it’s all for naught.

Let’s wait and see what the outcome of all this is.

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

Nice name calling, this just shows your own pathetic mentality. The army and the ISI have a long and well established recorded history of trampling over governments, courts, other institutions, the law, the constitution, and press freedom. If any of these were an isolated case, one would be deeply sceptical, but that's not the case.

Lolx so because of their blunders in 90s and 2000s you are going to blame lifafi dramas on them now ?

 

[The Eagle]

If these kanjar would again escaped unpunished then i would definitely send bangles to Rawalpindi boys through TCS , My blood boiling like Tandoori Tea whenever i saw these Geo scumbags tola on TV , where is Supreme Court because now they are abusing 71 constituents, they are abusing our institutions & security forces , when this shit will end ??

Keep calm.... some people do know their business. Speaking of Supreme Court, I did share a video about the conduct of one Qazi so imagine how the whole bunch works. BTW,

 

[Riz]

Keep calm.... some people do know their business. Speaking of Supreme Court, I did share a video about the conduct of one Qazi so imagine how the whole bunch works. BTW,
View attachment 749265

enemies are working on an agenda , we should act and act very fast

 

[HAIDER]

View attachment 748972

He will get foreign nationality in few weeks.

 

[RescueRanger]

He will get foreign nationality in few weeks.

Yes, that’s what the end game looks like to me. But then again what do I know.