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ISI cultivated Taliban to counter Indian action against Pakistan: Musharraf

Yeah, it is always the poor victim Pakistan.

Let's see whats happens if pakistan start supporting Maoists, or rebels in Assam.

Yes whoever shows you mirror is shameful......
Nor supporting any terrorism spread by raw.... I care more for innocent precious human life .....

Showing mirror? supporting terror groups in Pakistan and instead of doing some introspection among yourselves for all the money spend in pakistan financing terror groups, would have alleviated poverty in India, would have developed India infrastructure. You are still insisting on showing Pakistan the mirror. Literal facepalm for you and whoever thinks like you
 
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Pakistan provided proof to USA. Common sense which is not so common in indians now a days who doesn't even know how proxy wars are conducted. who doesn't even understand the Intel and proofs of Proxy wars are kept intact so the assets collecting intel and proofs in Afghanistan would be severely compromised.


Let's start with some history lessons, since you are so ignorant, you don't even know When Pakistan started it's campaign of taliban support. India started financing Baloch groups in 2005, we started our campaign in 2006. It's shameful India is causing destruction in Pakistan and indians are cheerleading and putting blame on pakistan for this destruction. Lanat on those who did that.

Then in your ignorance, you forgot if Indian hadnot started this whole terror financing campaign, Pakistan would not have supported Taliban in first place. So yes it was your fault.
Another form of denial.....

Let's see whats happens if pakistan start supporting Maoists, or rebels in Assam.



Showing mirror? supporting terror groups in Pakistan and instead of doing some introspection among yourselves for all the money spend in pakistan financing terror groups, would have alleviated poverty in India, would have developed India infrastructure. You are still insisting on showing Pakistan the mirror. Literal facepalm for you and whoever thinks like you
But thread is not about raw .... Stick to topic buddy ..... Why not open another thread .....

Btw many of fellow countrymen even believed RAW was behind Peshawar school attack....

Peshawar school attackers mostly Pakistan nationals: DG ISPR!
 
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Such a shameful attitude and willful ignorance of Indian groups spreading terror in Pakistan in whose reaction Pakistan propped up certain groups to counter them.

In whose reaction did pakistan arm, train and aid Mullah Omars siege against Nagibullah Government in 1994? Please educate us?

I am not sure if you remember this but there were Pak ISI trained urdu speaking cadets in the Mazar -e shariff- fort seige. I think there is a french cameraman's documentry of the Mazar siege on you tube, one of the urdo speaking fighters say's he was sent from peshawar to fight in afganistan? against whom?
 
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Another form of denial.....


But thread is not about raw .... Stick to topic buddy ..... Why not open another thread .....

Btw many of fellow countrymen even believed RAW was behind Peshawar school attack....

Peshawar school attackers mostly Pakistan nationals: DG ISPR!

Are you suffering from autism ? ISI cultivated taliban for what ? to counter Indian diplomatic corps actions eh ?

It makes me wonder sometimes, the level of IQ I have to counter in debating indians. Countrymen believe is equal to What Civilian and Military leadership is saying ?

And if you would have scroll down the link, you would have found DG ISPR blaming Indian for supporting terror groups in India.

Come out of selective denialism and quoting selective truths
 
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What s


Such a shameful attitude and willful ignorance of Indian groups spreading terror in Pakistan in whose reaction Pakistan propped up certain groups to counter them.



So no condemnation Indian terrorism in pakistan?

jab aap kare toh chamatkaar hain , hum kare toh balatkaar hai...:disagree::disagree:
 
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In whose reaction did pakistan arm, train and aid Mullah Omars siege against Nagibullah Government in 1994? Please educate us?

I am not sure if you remember this but there were Pak ISI trained urdu speaking cadets in the Mazar -e shariff- fort seige. I think there is a french cameraman's documentry of the Mazar siege on you tube, one of the urdo speaking fighters say's he was sent from peshawar to fight in afganistan? against whom?

Civil war in Afghanistan (1992–96) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


How Afghans' Stern Rulers Took Hold - NYTimes.com
 
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Even without his revelation ppl of Pakistan themselves n outside world do know how brutally ISI were involved in Afghanistan especially during soviet invasion....
however pdf Pakistanis spin it,,
this revelation is significant as it comes from a person who was at the helm for good many years,,,,he effectively declared that Pakistan as a state was(maybe still is) sponsoring a internationaly recognised terrorist organisation.
good luck Pakistanis convincing the world that u r victims of terror.
 
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jab aap kare toh chamatkaar hain , hum kare toh balatkaar hai...:disagree::disagree:

Did Pakistan supported insurgencies in Nagaland, Assam, or that of Maoists ? No because it was consider indian territories upon which we have no claim. We supported Kashmir because it is disputed territory.

Did India have any claims on FATA or on balochistan which would justify their financing of terror groups ?
 
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There were other ways of pressuring Karzai, like sending the 3 million Afghanis back in to Afghanistan.

This, if true, was a stupid move. I'm serious and I do not mean any disrespect, but are some of our top establishment figures really this childish in their thinking?
 
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You really want me to post links of Pakistani assistance to Taliban, it's military advisers, logistical support etc?

The claim you made was pakistans's cultivation of these assets was a response to Indian involvement, both you and me know that is not genuine remark. But if you want to engage in link swapping, let me know i should have few of them onother threads of the same nature.

We both have extensively discussed the topic at hand, and invariably it comes down to pakistani miscalculations of strategic implications of aiding and abetting taliban.
 
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LOL. Suck it up folks! Now even that great "patriot" Musharraf is admitting that ISI cultivated Taliban!
Those who were asking me of proof for this yesterday can run along on and kindly ask Musharraf for evidence! :D
Let's face it. It is Pakistan's policy to 'bleed India through a thousand cuts'. He did nothing wrong as a Pakistani.
 
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now these thing will happned,
1. People who still in deninal mode (by igorance or by delibrate casue ) IGNORE it.
2. you are called as RAW agent
3. you are called as anti pakistani
4. People will say it WESTs propaganda.. how can muslim kill muslim ,, not possible.. so taliban to kill muslim NO
5. we proud of Taliban (no ttp) till it hits india
6. taliban is freedom figter (those terrrost fighting agiant india) but other who fight with pak estabhlsmet are (ttp) are terrorist
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnddddddddddddddddddddd you are banned. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

So much for the censorship of forum.:hitwall:

Pakistan provided proof to USA. Common sense which is not so common in indians now a days who doesn't even know how proxy wars are conducted. who doesn't even understand the Intel and proofs of Proxy wars are kept intact so the assets collecting intel and proofs in Afghanistan would be severely compromised.


Let's start with some history lessons, since you are so ignorant, you don't even know When Pakistan started it's campaign of taliban support. India started financing Baloch groups in 2005, we started our campaign in 2006. It's shameful India is causing destruction in Pakistan and indians are cheerleading and putting blame on pakistan for this destruction. Lanat on those who did that.

Then in your ignorance, you forgot if Indian hadnot started this whole terror financing campaign, Pakistan would not have supported Taliban in first place. So yes it was your fault.
Since you wrote that with full confidence, i'd say you must have a documented proof with dates and stuff. Please show us and make us ashamed of our dreadful acts.
 
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You really want me to post links of Pakistani assistance to Taliban, it's military advisers, logistical support etc?

The claim you made was pakistans's cultivation of these assets was a response to Indian involvement, both you and me know that is not genuine remark. But if you want to engage in link swapping, let me know i should have few of them onother threads of the same nature.

We both have extensively discussed the topic at hand, and invariably it comes down to pakistani miscalculations of strategic implications of aiding and abetting taliban.

History show us, Pakistan helped Taliban in 1994 for the same reasons India helped Mukti bahini or several groups in Srilanka . To stabilize the situation and stop the spillover into respective territories because of civil war. Hence Pakistan provided military assistance to Taliban in 1994. This is the summary of what is written in those 2 links. I guess if you have bothered to read it, you wouldn't had have to ask a rhetorical question
 
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History show us, Pakistan helped Taliban in 1994 for the same reasons India helped Mukti bahini. To stabilize the situation and stop the spillover in to respective territories because of civil war. Hence Pakistan provided military assistance to Taliban in 1994. This is the summary of what is wriiten in those 2 links. I guess if you have bothered to read it, you wouldn't had have to ask a rehtorical question
Taliban for all practical means from this forum is designated in two parties, the pakistani taliban and afghan taliban.

The official stance of pakistan is that government of pakistan is at war against all forms of terrorism (except kashimiri terrorists).

The claim of quite a few member here is pakistani taliban is funded by Raw/Cia/Mossad/etc. hence are attacking pakistani assets.

Another claim is pakistani military or some of it's junior level cadre are sympathetic to the Afghan taliban who were once brother in arms.

Afghan Talban:
To understanding taliban and it's pakistani connection, we need to revisit the soviet pullout and outbreak of civil war in afghanistan. Numerous Ex-Mujhahideen commanders post soviet withdrawal found themselves in position of power and tremendous infighting had started. Ahmed shah massoud, Ahmed rashid dostum, Jalaluddin Hekmetyar, Haqqani, Abdul Rahim Wardak and Abdul Haq were few of the influential commanders of that time.

With political turmoil, a new leader Mohd Mullah Omar rose and used religious fundamentalism to futher his reach. ISI recognized, this opportunity and hordes of volunteers/students (talibs) from madarsas, most Afghan refugees and a significant amount from pakistani tribal regions (all operating under the umbrella of Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam funded by saudi oil money ) joined the effort to dislodge the communist backed government in kabul to form the so called Islamic Utopia. ISI also embedded it's military advisers and provided significant training, funding and logistical support to this effort. ISI brokered deal between this new emerging group with military factions of gulbudeen hekymatyaar and jalaudeen haqanni (all pashtun organisations). Peter Tomsen stated that up until 9/11 Pakistani military and ISI officers along with thousands of regular Pakistani armed forces personnel had been involved in the fighting in AfghanistanIn 2001 alone, according to several international sources, 28,000-30,000 Pakistani nationals, 14,000-15,000 Afghan Taliban and 2,000-3,000 Al Qaeda militants were fighting against anti-Taliban forces in Afghanistan as a roughly 45,000 strong military force.

Ref: Edward Girardet. Killing the Cranes: A Reporter's Journey Through Three Decades of War in Afghanistan (August 3, 2011 ed.)


Taliban forces backed by PA, in the course of 1994, the Taliban took control of 12 of 34 provinces not under central government control, finally attacked kabul and seized control. Ahmed Shah Massoud, the defence minister at that time retreated to Panjshir valley, which in modern history never fell either to the soviets or to the Taliban.

The Taliban, however, suffered a devastating defeat against government forces of the Islamic State under the command of Ahmad Shah Massoud. Pakistan, however, started to provide stronger military support to the Taliban. Many analysts like Amin Saikal describe the Taliban as developing into a proxy force for Pakistan's regional interests. On September 26, 1996, as the Taliban with military support by Pakistan and financial support by Saudi Arabia prepared for another major offensive, Massoud ordered a full retreat from Kabul to continue anti-Taliban resistance in the Hindu Kush mountains instead of engaging in street battles in Kabul. The Taliban entered Kabul on September 27, 1996, and established the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan



Post 9/11 Pakistan abandoned the same taliban that it had nurtured and fed for years, but Pakistani military, did know the fact that ISAF forces wouldn't stay in kabul for ever and hence ISI airlifted the most important Taliban/AQ leadership along with pakistani military operators from Konduz (Ref Air lift of evil). Leaders like Mullah omar, Al zawhiri and Bin Laden were unaccounted for. Most of top level AQ leaders that were arrested by both ISI and CIA were not found in afghanistan but in pakistan.

For pakistani military "Afghan Taliban" hols tremendous potential in case of US withdrawal and hence pakistan will not deliberately alienate the surviving leadership of Afghan Taliban.

Pakistani Taliban:

Although not much is clear about this organization, there are some frivolous claims of Pakistanis that "India finances a fundamental muslim organisation that also derives much of it's cadres from some of the groups engaged in kashmir against India". Another claim is "CIA funds the TTP to cause turmoil in pakistan" which is surprising because it seems CIA can operate with impunity targeting pakistani targets at will hence the case for arming an insurgency against pakistan seems farfetched.

A more reasonable understanding might be that, TTP is the lower level cadres of Afghan taliban which was disillusioned by pakistani tactics and brought the islamic utopia concept back to pakistan. For pakistani government taliban doctrine is profitable to export but is impossible to own as pakistani society is a moderate modern progressive islamic society. 1500 year old styled islamic sharia doesn't suit pakistan, and TTP is hell bent on bringing that on, hence now Pakistani military is trying to engage TTP, where it can diffuse the situation with talks it talks, when that doesn't work out pakistani military goes on the offensive.

History show us, Pakistan helped Taliban in 1994 for the same reasons India helped Mukti bahini or several groups in Srilanka . To stabilize the situation and stop the spillover into respective territories because of civil war. Hence Pakistan provided military assistance to Taliban in 1994. This is the summary of what is written in those 2 links. I guess if you have bothered to read it, you wouldn't had have to ask a rhetorical question
So you are now contradicting yourself? was it to stabilize afghanistan or to counter India?
 
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History show us, Pakistan helped Taliban in 1994 for the same reasons India helped Mukti bahini or several groups in Srilanka . To stabilize the situation and stop the spillover into respective territories because of civil war. Hence Pakistan provided military assistance to Taliban in 1994. This is the summary of what is written in those 2 links. I guess if you have bothered to read it, you wouldn't had have to ask a rhetorical question
In post #14, you just said Pakistan helped Taliban only after 2006, Now you are saying it is since '94.
 
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