ISI cleansed of extremist supporters?

[Rabbit.Rabbit]

ISI cleansed of extremist supporters?
ISI cleansed of extremist supporters?


Mon, 13 Apr 2009 00:34:17 GMT
Pakistan's Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi hints the government will cleanse its Inter-Services Intelligence from pro-extremist elements.

"Now we are in the process of restructuring ISI. ISI has been cleansed. The present leadership of ISI is very clear that this challenge (of tackling terrorism and extremism) is our challenge," Qureshi said in a TV interview on Sunday.

The remarks come after senior US officials accused the agency of maintaining close contacts with the Taliban who are involved in attacking US-led coalition forces in neighboring Afghanistan

The ISI has also been widely accused of using its relations with extremists and militants for leverage against India and influence in Afghanistan over the course of the last three decades.

However, Qureshi claimed that the ISI had made positive contributions in the fight against terrorism over the past few years.

"Without ISI's help you could not have apprehended the 700 or so al-Qaeda operatives. ISI has done more than any other organization has done," the foreign minister said.

He emphasized that the present leadership of the ISI is very clear about the challenge of tackling terrorism.

JR/SME/MMA

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The 'purge' was started during Musharraf's time. Gen. Kiyani is credited with breaking many 'cells' that might have been complicit in the attacks on Musharraf after being appointed ISI chief by Musharraf.

Last year the 'Political Wing' of the ISI was disbanded, and when Gen. Nadeem Taj was transferred from his position as DG ISI, an internal restructuring was again undertaken with several brigadiers in charge of various departments changed.

The GoP and many of us here have always maintained that the focus on the ISI as a 'state within a state' has been scapegoating and the creation of a bogeyman to tack on simplistic solutions to the Afghan problems, instead of explaining to the Western public the complexities and nuances of the challenge in the region.

 

[PeacefulIndian]

In my view this is a candid admission that ISI did support extremist elements.

"Without ISI's help you could not have apprehended the 700 or so al-Qaeda operatives. ISI has done more than any other organization has done," the foreign minister said.

Excellent piece of media management. First you create the devil, support & nurture it. And then you arrest/kill their sepoys under the name of WoT. Their generals are free to do whatever they want. And then you go to the world, pat your own back for excellent support in WoT & being an ally to US. What the fkuc!

And I am really not sure how this so called 'cleansing' of ISI is going to work out. Its like taking the soul out of ISI's body.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In my view this is a candid admission that ISI did support extremist elements.

"Without ISI's help you could not have apprehended the 700 or so al-Qaeda operatives. ISI has done more than any other organization has done," the foreign minister said.

How is that an admission that the ISI supported extremist elements?

Are you now going to suggest that the fact that law Enforcement arrests criminals means that Law Enforcement was supporting criminal elements and created them?

Excellent piece of media management. First you create the devil, support & nurture it. And then you arrest/kill their sepoys under the name of WoT. The generals are free to do whatever they want. And then you go to the world, pat your own back for excellent support in WoT & being an ally to US. What the fkuc!

Pakistan never created Al Qaeda - making absurd allegations like these without evidence will get you banned for trolling.

I'll wait for clarifications with evidence, or a retraction.

 

[asaeed]

Yeah well India created the Tamil Tigers now did'nt they and look what happened to Rajiv.Things change,but all nations adjust for their own national security interests,Thats the way the cookie crumbles my friend.

 

[PeacefulIndian]

How is that an admission that the ISI supported extremist elements?

Are you now going to suggest that the fact that law Enforcement arrests criminals means that Law Enforcement was supporting criminal elements and created them?

I don't know why are you asking this question. If you read 1st 5 lines of the article, it makes clear that there were Pro-extremist elements in ISI, which are now supposedly being cleansed. At least I took it that way. Don't know how you are reading it.

Pakistan never created Al Qaeda - making absurd allegations like these without evidence will get you banned for trolling.

I'll wait for clarifications with evidence, or a retraction.

It is my understanding that Pakistan was one of the co-founder of Al-qaeda during Operation Cyclone. Here is the wiki link that I read thru few days back.
Al-Qaeda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is one of the excerpts from it.
The origins of the group can be traced to the Soviet war in Afghanistan. The United States viewed the conflict in Afghanistan, with the Afghan Marxists and allied Soviet troops on one side and the native Afghan mujahedeen on the other, as a blatant case of Soviet expansionism and aggression. The U.S. channelled funds through Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency to the native Afghan mujahedeen fighting the Soviet occupation in a CIA program called Operation Cyclone.

Though now you are going to argue that it was CIA who created AQ, you should not undermine the fact that you were one of the co-founders. You were much more than a mute spectator.

And AQ enjoyed Taliban support & protection all the while. This is one of the many articles that suggest links between Taliban & ISI.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/world/asia/26tribal.html

So are you going to put forth an argument that Pakistan only selectively helped Taliban, making sure that AQ does not get any benifit? IMO, Taliban supporting AQ is same as ISI supporting AQ. Just under different name, different means.

 

[jeypore]

"

Without ISI's help you could not have apprehended the 700 or so al-Qaeda operatives. ISI has done more than any other organization has done," the foreign minister said.

That maybe true, but it still does not solve the problems of al-qaeda's ideology injected into the talibans, and that is were the GoP is going to have hard time cleansing the true ISI. The purpose of mentioning Al-qaeda is mainly to appease the US, to show that the current administration is doing some modification of ISI. But time will tell if the imbilical cord is actually cut with the talibans.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I don't know why are you asking this question. If you read 1st 5 lines of the article, it makes clear that there were Pro-extremist elements in ISI, which are now supposedly being cleansed. At least I took it that way. Don't know how you are reading it.

Pakistan supported the Taliban, not Al Qaeda - the quote you used referred to Al Qaeda. However, if you are referring to the Taliban when you say 'extremists' then your point is valid.

It is my understanding that Pakistan was one of the co-founder of Al-qaeda during Operation Cyclone. Here is the wiki link that I read thru few days back.
Al-Qaeda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is one of the excerpts from it.
The origins of the group can be traced to the Soviet war in Afghanistan. The United States viewed the conflict in Afghanistan, with the Afghan Marxists and allied Soviet troops on one side and the native Afghan mujahedeen on the other, as a blatant case of Soviet expansionism and aggression. The U.S. channelled funds through Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency to the native Afghan mujahedeen fighting the Soviet occupation in a CIA program called Operation Cyclone.

Though now you are going to argue that it was CIA who created AQ, you should not undermine the fact that you were one of the co-founders. You were much more than a mute spectator.

Your excerpt only talks about support for the Mujahideen, not Al Qaeda.

Pakistan did not create Al Qaeda, nor do I have any intention of arguing that the CIA did, and neither were 'co-sponsors' AFAIK.

So are you going to put forth an argument that Pakistan only selectively helped Taliban, making sure that AQ does not get any benifit? IMO, Taliban supporting AQ is same as ISI supporting AQ. Just under different name, different means.

The taliban were not supporting AQ, it was more the other way around, with OBL and other Arab benefactors funding Taliban operations. The Taliban in return allowed OBL and his associates to reside there. Pakistan had little to do with this and therefore did not either create or support Al Qaeda.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

"

But time will tell if the imbilical cord is actually cut with the talibans.

Contacts with some Taliban factions will remain so long as there is no clear answer to the long term situation in Afghanistan.

Tangible institutional support ended long ago, as I pointed out.

 

[Always Neutral]

The next step should be to put ISI under civil control just like the CIA and MI 6.

Regards

 

[PeacefulIndian]

Pakistan supported the Taliban, not Al Qaeda - the quote you used referred to Al Qaeda. However, if you are referring to the Taliban when you say 'extremists' then your point is valid.


Your excerpt only talks about support for the Mujahideen, not Al Qaeda.

Pakistan did not create Al Qaeda, nor do I have any intention of arguing that the CIA did, and neither were 'co-sponsors' AFAIK.


The taliban were not supporting AQ, it was more the other way around, with OBL and other Arab benefactors funding Taliban operations. The Taliban in return allowed OBL and his associates to reside there. Pakistan had little to do with this and therefore did not either create or support Al Qaeda.

You have chosen to believe that Pakistan was a neutral spectator to whataver was happening in Afghanistan, Taliban & Al-Qaeda activities etc. I have chosen not to.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The next step should be to put ISI under civil control just like the CIA and MI 6.

Regards

The ISI is not a civilian intelligence agency - The Intelligence bureau plays that role.

The ISI reports to the Prime Minister, but is staffed overwhelmingly by serving Military officers, primarily from the Army, who are rotated every 3 to 6 years.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You have chosen to believe that Pakistan was a neutral spectator to whataver was happening in Afghanistan, Taliban & Al-Qaeda activities etc. I have chosen not to.

Its not about 'belief' there is no evidence in support of your contention. You have chosen to believe something in the absence of any evidence.

Please read Steven Coll's Pulitzer winning Ghost Wars - there was no connection (creation or funding) between OBL's AQ and Pakistan.

 

[jeypore]

Contacts with some Taliban factions will remain so long as there is no clear answer to the long term situation in Afghanistan.
Tangible institutional support ended long ago, as I pointed out.

And there lies the ails of the southeast region equations. The paranoia of the ISI keeping the talibans in the back pocket for the future of the Afganistan equation, can not and will never reform ISI. Even though that statement of reforming the ISI is made under the preassure of the US, but the change will not come to the organization. Before talking about removing the radical application of the organization, a simple step of putting the organization into civil hand will do much good on reformation then any.

 

[Always Neutral]

The ISI is not a civilian intelligence agency - The Intelligence bureau plays that role.

The ISI reports to the Prime Minister, but is staffed overwhelmingly by serving Military officers, primarily from the Army, who are rotated every 3 to 6 years.

Dear AM,

the military has its military intelligence wing. IB is akin to MI 5 and ISI is akin to MI 6. ISI is equivalent to CIA, RAW, MI 6 etc which are looked after by civilian heads. ISI under military is a very dangerous concept.

Regards